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  #1  
Old 07-01-2017, 04:35 PM
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Default High EGT post Remap

Hi All,

Got my truck remapped during the week. 3L CRD manual, 3inch exhaust and Dawes needle. Reputable tuner with a dyno run before and after. Master tuner also. They didn't change or alter the Dawes valve setting nor the needle valve.

Runs very well, but I am slightly concerned about the rapid rise of EGT's. Now cruises at 110 about 450-500 hills see it climb up to 600 very quickly.

Today was towing a trailer full of rubbish and I was struggling to accelerate as the EGT's would spike to 600 very quickly. Cruising at 100 with a slight hill saw a spike to 680 before I intervened.

Having never having a car that ran high EGT's I'm a little shocked at what it's doing. Boost eventually gets to 17-18 but not till 3500-4000 rpm. In the above scenarios it is sitting in the 10-15psi range. Needle valve doesn't seem make any difference in the range I am running.

I'm also not sure I would want to tow anything with it running how it is.

Thoughts? Options?

Rich
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Hi All,

Got my truck remapped during the week. 3L CRD manual, 3inch exhaust and Dawes needle. Reputable tuner with a dyno run before and after. Master tuner also. They didn't change or alter the Dawes valve setting nor the needle valve.

Runs very well, but I am slightly concerned about the rapid rise of EGT's. Now cruises at 110 about 450-500 hills see it climb up to 600 very quickly.

Today was towing a trailer full of rubbish and I was struggling to accelerate as the EGT's would spike to 600 very quickly. Cruising at 100 with a slight hill saw a spike to 680 before I intervened.

Having never having a car that ran high EGT's I'm a little shocked at what it's doing. Boost eventually gets to 17-18 but not till 3500-4000 rpm. In the above scenarios it is sitting in the 10-15psi range. Needle valve doesn't seem make any difference in the range I am running.

I'm also not sure I would want to tow anything with it running how it is.

Thoughts? Options?

Rich
Id say push it to see how high the egts run untill they stabilize.
Obviously if they hit 800 back off.
Also what gear were you towing in, it not ideal to tow in 5th up a hill as egts will go sky high.

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Old 07-01-2017, 05:13 PM
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What is the limit for this engine?

What have you pushed it to Booth?

I may sneak the boost up a little to counter the extra fuel. Maybe.
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:47 PM
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Why did your reputable tuner not adjust the boost?

The primary purpose of a remap on a CRD is to allow 19-20psi and good afr. This gives cooler EGts.

I suggest you go back and get them to tune it properly.

Did they turn off the EGR?
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:57 PM
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I know what you are saying ACM.

I don't know why. Maybe the boost was at a correct level. I am not sure of the AFR's. The dyno graph is up in the Dyno results thread.

Know apparently on my model the EGR could not be turned off. I asked and they checked with the tuner but apparently the option was not there to turn it off. Seems odd given its a 2010 build.

Rich
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I know what you are saying ACM.

I don't know why. Maybe the boost was at a correct level. I am not sure of the AFR's. The dyno graph is up in the Dyno results thread.

Know apparently on my model the EGR could not be turned off. I asked and they checked with the tuner but apparently the option was not there to turn it off. Seems odd given its a 2010 build.

Rich
Mine is a 2010 CRD.

My remap sends the boost to 19psi almost immediately, the EGR is turned off, and a Tillix was installed at time of tune. My EGTs are lower, only once got it to 730 on a long uphill drag into a severe headwind with caravan attached

I don't buy their story, your boost is too low. Could go to 22 on std turbo, but safe all day on 19-20.


I just had a peek at your dyno graph. There is no way you made 99kw pre tune on 33s with 4.1 diff.
There is no boost or afr detail. I doubt you can have 118kw after on 17psi boost.

Something is not right here. You say "they checked with the tuner", which implies your car wasn't tuned with the tuner present.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:20 PM
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I'm wondering why your boost peaks so high in the rev range, OK mines a DI but I'm all out at 21-22psi by 2000rpm and I rarely see 450c. I'll cruise at 10-12 psi but the moment a bit of load comes it's straight up to max, if I was running 10-15 under load my EGT would skyrocket.

As for gears, on a particular long, long climb some years ago I was switching between 4th and 5th at 100k and found a difference of 100c between them even though the engine pulled well in both and had no complaints, 4th was 100c cooler.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:32 PM
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Looks like his is making peak torque which would mean peak boost would be close, by 2000rpm on the dyno.
There is no problem running those turbos at 22psi and they will live a long happy life.

Maybe there is some debris in the valve thats caused the boost to spool late. Try pulling it apart and cleaning it see if that fixes the issue.
Other things that could happen is the ballbearing has ended up inside the spring, hose has a split or a crack, T-piece has a crack in it.

Easiest way to check is put the vacuum directly to the turbo go for a little drive (light throttle) and see if the boost is ultra responsive and shoots past 20psi rapidly.
Dont let it get up over 27psi with it connected like this though.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselTuner View Post
Looks like his is making peak torque which would mean peak boost would be close, by 2000rpm on the dyno.
There is no problem running those turbos at 22psi and they will live a long happy life.

Maybe there is some debris in the valve thats caused the boost to spool late. Try pulling it apart and cleaning it see if that fixes the issue.
Other things that could happen is the ballbearing has ended up inside the spring, hose has a split or a crack, T-piece has a crack in it.

Easiest way to check is put the vacuum directly to the turbo go for a little drive (light throttle) and see if the boost is ultra responsive and shoots past 20psi rapidly.
Dont let it get up over 27psi with it connected like this though.
Surely this would be part of the tune process.

The customer shouldn't have to do a tune after the tune.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACMPatrol View Post
Surely this would be part of the tune process.

The customer shouldn't have to do a tune after the tune.
The tune looks fine to me on the graph. Maybe this is just a coincidence or something that has happened after the tune was done.

The engine wouldnt be making peark torque at 2000rpm if the boost was only just hitting 15psi at 3500rpm.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:11 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys.

It isn't a Dawes, its the HPD equivalent. I will check it all out during the week though. I'm still miffed about the EGR not being able to be turned off.

So I went for another test drive. Upped the boost, now gets to 19. Foot flat to the floor in 4th, from 1800rpm and not lifting off to 3800rpm - was up to 120k - it went as high as 650-680. Still seems bloody high to me.

Regarding the dyno graph, maybe it's the way I drive, but I cannot get the boost to 19 by 2000 rpm. Maybe I need to wind the needle valve to full open. I tend to run it slightly lower for fuel consumption and also to stop the boost jumping around whilst cruising.

Rich
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselTuner View Post
The tune looks fine to me on the graph. Maybe this is just a coincidence or something that has happened after the tune was done.

The engine wouldnt be making peark torque at 2000rpm if the boost was only just hitting 15psi at 3500rpm.
More 18 by 3500, but it could be the needle valve??

Also pre test drive I checked the peak EGT, it was 730 earlier today.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by geeyoutoo View Post
I'm wondering why your boost peaks so high in the rev range, OK mines a DI but I'm all out at 21-22psi by 2000rpm and I rarely see 450c. I'll cruise at 10-12 psi but the moment a bit of load comes it's straight up to max, if I was running 10-15 under load my EGT would skyrocket.

As for gears, on a particular long, long climb some years ago I was switching between 4th and 5th at 100k and found a difference of 100c between them even though the engine pulled well in both and had no complaints, 4th was 100c cooler.
Re this I can't seem to get the boost to peak and then stay level. I have never been able to get the boost to say boost to 15 and then remain there throughout the rev range.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Thanks for the responses guys.

It isn't a Dawes, its the HPD equivalent. I will check it all out during the week though. I'm still miffed about the EGR not being able to be turned off.

So I went for another test drive. Upped the boost, now gets to 19. Foot flat to the floor in 4th, from 1800rpm and not lifting off to 3800rpm - was up to 120k - it went as high as 650-680. Still seems bloody high to me.

Regarding the dyno graph, maybe it's the way I drive, but I cannot get the boost to 19 by 2000 rpm. Maybe I need to wind the needle valve to full open. I tend to run it slightly lower for fuel consumption and also to stop the boost jumping around whilst cruising.

Rich
Wind it anticlockwise to full closed and see how it spools then, there are ways to stabilise boost and get a more linear response if jumping around is an issue. How far open have you been running the needle.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:47 PM
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Full anti clockwise and it doesn't do much then. Barely any boost till after 2000rpm.

Not entirely sure how far open the needle valve is. At a guess I would say half way. Though the first and last quarter result in changes that I can't perceive. It is in the cabin so I have tended to adjust it to suit what I am doing. Boost jumping about hasn't been noticeable until Thursday night. I was however pushing into a very strong southerly whilst driving that direction!
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
What is the limit for this engine?

What have you pushed it to Booth?

I may sneak the boost up a little to counter the extra fuel. Maybe.
I used to be able to force 750+ but not since my last tune.
But id say dont be afraid we all Know the CRD loves it hotter than a DI

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Old 07-01-2017, 09:55 PM
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Close the needle valve fully (clockwise), set max boost. Which As I said around 22-23 will be fine.
Then open the needle to get a cruising @100kph boost of around 10-15psi depending on load.

If there is ALOT of boost bounce like more than 3psi, then look at the setup of the valve hose lengths etc...

The dawes and hpd both still use a ballbearing, and any valve is still able to get something stuck in there causign low boost due to lack of vacuum to the vanes.
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Old 07-01-2017, 10:57 PM
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Thanks Maxchook.

Thanks DT. Will sort tomorrow and let you know. By close you mean open? Full clockwise is open, or no restriction to boost, full CCW is well opposite.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Thanks Maxchook.

Thanks DT. Will sort tomorrow and let you know. By close you mean open? Full clockwise is open, or no restriction to boost, full CCW is well opposite.
Your needle might be the opposite to what I am used to.
I am used to them being clockwise = closed.
Coutnerclockwise = open.

If yours is opposite to that it might be made in ireland
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Full anti clockwise and it doesn't do much then. Barely any boost till after 2000rpm.

Not entirely sure how far open the needle valve is. At a guess I would say half way. Though the first and last quarter result in changes that I can't perceive. It is in the cabin so I have tended to adjust it to suit what I am doing. Boost jumping about hasn't been noticeable until Thursday night. I was however pushing into a very strong southerly whilst driving that direction!
Sorry I meant to say clockwise in earlier post (fully closed), with it fully open you will have very little spoolup rate.

Re reading your later comments, there appears to be some confusion, I have never come across a valve that worked the opposite way, that is the international accepted engineering normal, so full clockwise should close the valve and increase spoolup.
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