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  #21  
Old 08-01-2017, 10:52 AM
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This is correct. Clockwise is faster spool up CCW is slow spoolup.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
This is correct. Clockwise is faster spool up CCW is slow spoolup.
Absolutely, in over 50 years of engineering and working in factories with air/water/steam/oil/refrigeration/etc/etc I have not seen a spindle/needle valve operate any other way.

Just to add, in case this is what you do, I've never subscribed to the open the needle until the arm reaches X theory, I use my needle as and when I need it, 90% of the time it is fully closed, it is a convenient tool.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:50 AM
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So just been for a quick test drive. Fully closed needle result in 22 psi boost. About 19-20 from 1800 rpm then 22 at 3800rpm. EGT's down to 630 pinned in 4th. This was starting from 1200rpm.

Now I'll back the needle valve off to get a better fuel consumption when cruising at 110.

Overall the EGT's don't rise like yesterday. They are slower to rise and faster to fall.

Bit annoying that I have had to do this after the tune but oh well still happy with the results.
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
So just been for a quick test drive. Fully closed needle result in 22 psi boost. About 19-20 from 1800 rpm then 22 at 3800rpm. EGT's down to 630 pinned in 4th. This was starting from 1200rpm.

Now I'll back the needle valve off to get a better fuel consumption when cruising at 110.

Overall the EGT's don't rise like yesterday. They are slower to rise and faster to fall.

Bit annoying that I have had to do this after the tune but oh well still happy with the results.
Well it wasn't a proper tune if they didn't take the needle valve/boost/spoolup into consideration. Anyway sounds a bit better boost wise and the quick recovery is exactly what you need on repetitive hills.

I know the CRD can and does cope with higher EGT than the DI, I try to keep them under 500c and have no difficulty doing so, so I still wonder about the 630c? For the CRD it is not a huge problem but not something I wouldn't like to see constantly, save me looking in the other thread, do you know what the AFR was?
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2017, 12:31 PM
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I understand what you are saying GU2. The car "may" be able to handle a higher temp but I am not totally happy with it having to sit up in that range constantly. I will keep driving and report back.

I do plan on having a chat with the tuners during the week. I specifically told them that I would be towing up to 2t with this and what I hoped to achieve out of the tune. Given the boost wasn't touched I am not sure how they got the result they got. If I had hooked up 2t to it yesterday it wouldn't have been pretty!

The Dyno graph didn't and doesn't show AFR's. Atleast not the print out I got.
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  #26  
Old 08-01-2017, 04:40 PM
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So the plot slightly thickens I think.

So as mentioned boost is 22, when the valve is fully closed, so fast spool up. However when I was just driving back along the highway, when I reduced the spool up rate I also reduce the available boost. Ie Using the needle valve to reduce the cruise boost to 10/100km/h results in the boost now only being able to hit 17psi. If I am to further open the needle valve the boost continues to drop.

Is this normal?

This could explain why I had such high EGT's yesterday.
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2017, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
So the plot slightly thickens I think.

So as mentioned boost is 22, when the valve is fully closed, so fast spool up. However when I was just driving back along the highway, when I reduced the spool up rate I also reduce the available boost. Ie Using the needle valve to reduce the cruise boost to 10/100km/h results in the boost now only being able to hit 17psi. If I am to further open the needle valve the boost continues to drop.

Is this normal?

This could explain why I had such high EGT's yesterday.
Yes, depending on how much you open the needle, and the sensitivity/size/brand of needle valve, as an example, my Water Meth Injection starts at around 16.5psi so under normal driving using my available 21-22psi my 10L WM tank won't last me for a full tank of fuel, but, when I'm out on the highway cruising with low load and I switch my solenoid to the open needle valve I can make my boost drop to 17psi and hardly ever use WM so the tank lasts for ages.
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2017, 06:15 PM
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I have the Italian one that is sold with most kits. I have to back it off 4.5 turns.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I have the Italian one that is sold with most kits. I have to back it off 4.5 turns.
That is the same one I have, should have around 6 turns to full open, 4.5 turns open is a large opening, I would expect to see a reasonable boost and spoolup drop at 4.5 turns, I think I have my needle set at around 3 turns open for the solenoid switch over.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:11 AM
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Hi Rich, maybe you need to adjust the HPD/Dawes valve in or up slightly to increase the boost set point.
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  #31  
Old 09-01-2017, 08:52 AM
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Hi Rich, maybe you need to adjust the HPD/Dawes valve in or up slightly to increase the boost set point.
He has 22psi with current boost control setpoint and needle closed, if he adjusts it up for an open needle it will raise it further for when he has it closed and I would be reluctant to see it go any higher than 22 for ongoing reliability. I really think he needs to experiment more with needle settings, there is a lot of wriggle room between closed and 4.5 turns open.
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2017, 09:41 AM
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I guestimated 8 turns, but I'm sure 6 is more likely. I know it is an imperfect work around but I was hoping it would be better than it is! Would be awesome to have the cruise set point at 10-15psi for highway work but also be able to still access the full 22psi early in the rev range.

I'll take apart the system and check it out today.

Looks like I'll be reading your how to adjust the VNT guide GU2. Maybe this is the way to go.
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:16 AM
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I was thinking more of the comment that adjusting cruising boost to 10 at 100 km/h resulted in it only reaching 17 max. That might be related to the HPD/ Dawes adjustment. I found they are a bit finer than the genuine Dawes and with needle closed it can overshoot the set boost quite a bit. It is a very fine balance between needle valve bleed or closed to provide maximum vacuum and balanced with the HPD/Dawes setting to limit max boost.
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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I did think about going this way. As in adjusting the cruise boost to 10-12 at 100 but still achieving 22 at WOT. In hindsight I don't think this is the correct way to go about it.

I still need to work out why I loose so much boost when I open the needle valve, this alone explains the very high EGT's I experienced, it was adding fuel but there wasn't boost. Yes I can constantly fiddle with the needle valve but I was hoping for a more 'consistent' approach.
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  #35  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I guestimated 8 turns, but I'm sure 6 is more likely. I know it is an imperfect work around but I was hoping it would be better than it is! Would be awesome to have the cruise set point at 10-15psi for highway work but also be able to still access the full 22psi early in the rev range.

I'll take apart the system and check it out today.

Looks like I'll be reading your how to adjust the VNT guide GU2. Maybe this is the way to go.
Yes you can do it, rig up a normally closed solenoid to the Needle valve line, when you apply power to the solenoid it opens so your preset needle cruising boost applies. I did build a voltage switch unit to automate it so it works off the TPS (like my 2nd WM nozzle) but never fitted it as the switch on the dash is just as easy and actually gives you more flexibility.

It is discussed in my Youtube channel, see sig for link.

Adjusting the VNT will slow your spoolup and put your max boost a little higher in the range so for towing I'm not sure you want that, I ran that for some years but undid it later.
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:06 PM
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So I took the whole set up apart. Shortened a few lines cleaned everything and generally tidied it all up.

The Needle valve had a fair amount of gunk in it, the dawes had some dust and abit of dirt.

After cleaning it out I don't loose as much boost with the needle valve set for 12-13 @ 100km/h. Now boosts up to about 19.

Happy enough to leave it and drive it for a while and re asses.
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:20 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. A clean out is always a good place to start and yes rerouting and playing with the length of hoses can be very rewarding.
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2017, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACMPatrol View Post
Why did your reputable tuner not adjust the boost?

The primary purpose of a remap on a CRD is to allow 19-20psi and good afr. This gives cooler EGts.

I suggest you go back and get them to tune it properly.

Did they turn off the EGR?
Just a recap of post #4 in the thread.

The "tuner" should have seen the Dawes/needle stuff hanging off the turbo and removed it to do the reflash and tune. (Plus they CAN remove the EGR invokation, to say they can't is B/S) Now there is the problem of EGR opening at open road cruise speed which messes with the fuel supply, and the owner twiddling with the needle valve to try and overcome that.

Then they should have asked the owner why he has them and what he does with them, and then checked them out for cleanliness, etc, and then sett them to a baseline.

When driving out the owner should have been told not to touch their adjustments for a period of time to accurately determine what the after tune issues were, if any.

When Andy at Diesel-tec tuned mine all of this was discussed beforehand, and the tune was done, EGR was removed, and the Tillix was fitted and adjusted to match. I have not touched it at all and will not, because it's a fantastic result overall.
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACMPatrol View Post
Just a recap of post #4 in the thread.

The "tuner" should have seen the Dawes/needle stuff hanging off the turbo and removed it to do the reflash and tune. (Plus they CAN remove the EGR invokation, to say they can't is B/S) Now there is the problem of EGR opening at open road cruise speed which messes with the fuel supply, and the owner twiddling with the needle valve to try and overcome that.

Then they should have asked the owner why he has them and what he does with them, and then checked them out for cleanliness, etc, and then sett them to a baseline.

When driving out the owner should have been told not to touch their adjustments for a period of time to accurately determine what the after tune issues were, if any.

When Andy at Diesel-tec tuned mine all of this was discussed beforehand, and the tune was done, EGR was removed, and the Tillix was fitted and adjusted to match. I have not touched it at all and will not, because it's a fantastic result overall.
ACM its not that they can't disable the EGR its that they won't,
Its illegal and they are a lot of big mouths around posting on open forums about where they got their EGR delete done.
Its bad for business when the powers that be come knocking.

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Old 09-01-2017, 09:00 PM
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ACM its not that they can't disable the EGR its that they won't,
Its illegal and they are a lot of big mouths around posting on open forums about where they got their EGR delete done.
Its bad for business when the powers that be come knocking.
Ed Zackery, some things are better left unsaid.
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