TD42 filter change tips?

[Dust Magnets]

Most of you know what I am about to say here - who the heck :angryfir: designed these things to be in the place they are??? Damned fool engineers who never actual have to work on the things I bet... Now that I've got over my rant:ranting: , has anybody figured out a way to change the oil filters without dropping oil all over the place, over the side of the block, starter motor & front diff?

Has anybody made or does anybody sell anything to go between the oil filters & the starter motor to catch the oil rather than let it go all over everything?

[Tracteur Tom]

Has anybody made or does anybody sell anything to go between the oil filters & the starter motor to catch the oil rather than let it go all over everything?

Yep, its called a cloth, an old T shirt works well, you can mould it to fit the space LOL !

Use a proper strap wrench, the type that uses a band of steel, to remove the filters, front one first. It really is quite easy once you plan your attack !

[philhod]

After I have cracked the thread I slip over a plastic bag and push it towards the bottom as far as I can, so that when it comes off you can hopefully catch most of it.

Also put rags on the floor, diff,starter etc. The oil still makes a bit of a mess but not as bad.

[madk1w1]

I just spin filter off almost half way then let it drain, then just spray engine in degreaser when finished and wash away, basically location is a PITA so no need to stress over a little oil just clean up when done

[Twinotter600]

I really get very little mess with this method:

Drain oil normally (not mentioning what normal is or isn't)
Leave filters on and do something else for an hour or more. This allows what oil would normally drain out of the filter to do so into the drain pan.
Crack the filter and spin off as fast as you can. If you are coordinated well enough, most of the remaining oil will stay in the filter due centrifugal force.
As the filter leaves the threads, make sure the filter is turned engine up and voila! With some practice this works well. The first go you might want a rag underneath.......

[Starion vr4]

I found on my GQ is I drained oil as normal, then jacked up rear of vehicle as high as I could( 400-600mm) left it for 1-2 hr, when I removed the filters most f not all the oil was gone. hope this helps

[Bad Juju]

This never works for me as my filters have anti drainback valves, I once started an oil change in the morning draining the oil. came back 5 hours later and unscrewed the oil filters and oiled the side of the block, diff, etc with the usual cup of oil per filter.
I just hold a rag to catch most and clean up after wards with degreaser.

[Yom]

I lay down some newspaper and generally don't care too much. The most annoying bit is where the oil pools in the ridges ontop of the diff. But its a pretty minor thing and I certainly don't have issues sleeping at night thinking about it.

My starter motor has been submerged in muddy water for a good period of time - it still works just fine. So i reckon the years of oil coating have given it protection from the evils of mud. :)

[skygod]

This may not be best practice but it works for me, drain oil and let stand for an hour or so then start up motor and let it idle for a minute or so, this removes the remaining oil in the filters, let stand for a bit longer and then take off filters. I don't think there is any danger of damaging the engine this way but maybe someone out there might tell me what a d#khead I am. AND this is very important, ALWAYS remove battery cables first, I once dropped a filter onto the starter motor terminals and welded it there, sparks flying and burning oil, managed to lift it off and then dropped it again, jeeeeezus, I threw those pants out that day. :doh:

[Bad Juju]

So just for clarification you run the engine without oil in it ??

[truckster]

So just for clarification you run the engine without oil in it ??
What harm can it do? all the bearings and things will still have film of oil over them....
if your unsure, drop a piston in a bucket of oil, take it out and let it sit for 30 seconds.. then rub your finger over it. Its no different. A minute probably is a lot different to what I did.

ALways used to drain the sump on mine, then start the engine for under 6-10 seconds (well and truly not a minute!) which would pump the oil out of the filters..

It shouldnt (didnt on another blokes for 600,000klms who told me how he did it...) do any harm as there still plenty of oil coated round the engine where it needs to be.

Take truck round the block, get it hot, drain sump, start, remove filters, replace filters, refill, all done.

or goto Good Guys and flog a few large boxes out of their garbo and lay them around the ground under the car.

[Tracteur Tom]

Umm, I think running without oil is not a good idea, but you knew I'd say that LOL ! It just demonstrates the strength of the TD42 bottom end by the fact you get away with it. What about the camshaft ? All the bearing surfaces rely on a film of oil that is under pressure to run on, once its gone, there will be metal to metal contact. Also consider the pump, you are running the engine with no oil in the sump, the pump is first in the circuit and once it runs out of oil to pick up it cant push anymore oil through the oil circuit, so you dont even achieve your goal of emptying the filters ! Dumb idea IMO.

[truckster]

Umm, I think running without oil is not a good idea, but you knew I'd say that LOL ! It just demonstrates the strength of the TD42 bottom end by the fact you get away with it. What about the camshaft ? All the bearing surfaces rely on a film of oil that is under pressure to run on, once its gone, there will be metal to metal contact. Also consider the pump, you are running the engine with no oil in the sump, the pump is first in the circuit and once it runs out of oil to pick up it cant push anymore oil through the oil circuit, so you dont even achieve your goal of emptying the filters ! Dumb idea IMO.If it lasted 600,000klms cant be too dumb. I too said he was a fool for doing it, until we did an oil change at his place (bought oil and filters in bulk)..
You wont ever empty the filters, by design they will always hold oil.

You wont totally clear the bearings, cams, etc of a film of oil either within 6-10 seconds - 1 minute - yes I'd be fairly sure you would **** things big time... Specially if you take car for a drive then change oil straight away, instead of doing it cold, or waiting 2 hours after a drive. there will be plenty of oil through out the engine.

But in a few seconds you can get enough out of the filters to make it so you dont spill.

Totally a YMMV thing.

[GQuick]

must admit ive had to do the 10 second drain to do my filters before lol never done me any harm :confused:

[Tracteur Tom]

Depends on how much you value the motor and also what you know about the workings of said motor me thinks. Ignorance is no defense they say.

[Esses]

Dunno what the big drama is here. All I do is drain the oil into a drain-pan, wait till it stops dripping, re-fit the plug, move the pan over a bit, spin the filter off, the oil drops into the pan, pull filter out, put new one on, new oil in - voila! Not had a spillage prob yet.

[Froggy]

Anyone ever fitted remote oil filters? I got them fitted to all my other cars.

[Yom]

Depends on how much you value the motor and also what you know about the workings of said motor me thinks. Ignorance is no defense they say.

Top end of a td42 would be fine for that period of time. The oil film will be enough. Pistons will be fine too.

What will suffer increased wear is the big end bearings i reckon.

[marin]

Dunno what the big drama is here. All I do is drain the oil into a drain-pan, wait till it stops dripping, re-fit the plug, move the pan over a bit, spin the filter off, the oil drops into the pan, pull filter out, put new one on, new oil in - voila! Not had a spillage prob yet.

The issue is that both the filters sit neatly above the diff.... and when you spin them off, excess oil goes down the side of the block and over the diff housing. Bitch to clean up. I use newpaper over the diff and have a large amount of paper on the ground. I buy a 9 litre bucket each time (89c at bunnings) and drain into that. Then the messy part of pulling off the filters. I also run my engine for about 5 seconds to try and pump out any excess from the system (before I pull the filters off).... always seem to get a few dribbles more coming out of the sump.

On the note of filters, I just use Z9's with anti drainback valves.... what are you guys using?

marin

[MyGQ]

i just let it run on the driveway, i do it at the old mans place :) so its not a problem for me :) hehe

as for filters i use the recommended Z115's as thats what its designed to use

[Tracteur Tom]

Top end of a td42 would be fine for that period of time. The oil film will be enough. Pistons will be fine too.

What will suffer increased wear is the big end bearings i reckon.

On what basis do you base these words of wisdom then ? There are sliding faces in the valve train that must be lubed otherwise they will overheat very quickly and the faces will tear each other apart. Big ends are under great strain even at an idle, I wouldnt want to run those without oil under pressure. If you have a turbo, running that, even at idle without oil will destroy the bearings. The crank mains and big ends rely on the oil film created by the oil pressure to keep the crank pins running on the oil and not the bearing metal, you telling me running with no oil is OK !

Seriously, you guys, starting the engine with no oil in the sump is a big No No !

On a similar theme, when you have replaced the oil and filters do you crank until you get oil pressure or just go for start up ?

[Yom]

OK here's my reasoning.

Looking at the haynes which pulls one apart, on a td42 the pushrod valve gear appears to be just lubricated by a film of oil. there's no high pressure feeds to any cam journals unlike in modern multi-cam motors which rely on a constant feed of oil which floats the cams sufficiently to prevent premature wear. 10 seconds of use at idle with a film of (good) oil on everything (the oil film doesn't just dissapear when you turn the engine off) won't cause any wear.

The big end will be damaged by extended use with no oil pressure - not going to debate on that. I'm certainly not about to go out and try this technique of draining the filters because I'm not sour enough to consider it a problem :p BUT i know that on a cold morning mine takes a good few seconds to get ANY oil pressure registering (unlike the gauge, the oil pressure warning light is SPOT on - it will go out as soon as there's positive oil pressure providing its not gunked up with sludge like most TD42's will be). During this time the bottom end is noisey. It doesn't do it any good but this is how 100% of td42's around the world operate and with the service life they're capable of, well its obvious its not doing any major harm running without any decent oil pressure for times varying between 3 and 15 seconds (i can imagine in sub zero temps the oil taking a fair while to get to where it needs to go).

I know of no mechanics who when they do an oil change will crank the motor until it builds oil pressure and then let it start and idle - here it is simply a matter of dump the old oil, chuck the new stuff in and move onto the next vehicle. I'm sure there's a few out there who do it, but I've never used them to change oil. I certainly don't bother either. If it was a different engine, like a TB48DE it might be different - that is a highly strung motor with alot of stresses placed upon it when its making full power, so ensuring everything stays well within OEM specs is critical to its reliable operation in the future. But this is the TD42 we're talking about - its completely unstressed.

Thats my reasoning. It could be wrong, but I share the opinion of those others who believe it will have bugger all effect on service life.

[Tracteur Tom]

You seem to be basing your reasoning on a rapidly diminishing film of oil. You also admit that the big-ends will not be to happy. The big end problem alone is sufficient reason not to run the engine without oil, even if it is for just 10 secs or so. This film of oil you talk about will be wiped away very quickly in all places that it is under pressure - all bearing and sliding faces !! The cam in the TD42 is just like any other engine, it has high pressure oil feeds to its bearings and splash lube for the lobes, stop that splash feed and you are asking for trouble.

I'm not going to argue with anyone who does this practice in an attempt to empty the oil filters, its their choice, based on goodness knows what, you can't reason with people who think they know best. I'm basing my argument on fact. Changing the oil filters on a TD42 is no worse than many other engines and once you know what to do it can be done cleanly. Just because a mate does it, or you read on the internet that some bloke as done this all his life and still gets 600kkm out of his engines means nothing, its all hearsay - think for yourselves guys.

I think it was Ford who did a survey and found out that a large percentage of engine problems can be traced to bad servicing practices by the mechanics, not being over fussy with cleanliness for one, but running the engine without oil has got to be ion that list also !

[danas]

I too think running the engine with no oil is asking for trouble but if it works for you then great.

What I do when I'm changing the filters is drain the oil then before I take the filters off I jack up the passenger side of the car, puts the filters on a bit of an angle and helps to stop spilling as much oil everywhere.

I don't crank untill it gets oil pressure but I always fill the filters with oil before I fit them (spill a bit more oil :mad:) and this reduces the time it takes to get oil pressure by a fair bit.

[Yom]

You seem to be basing your reasoning on a rapidly diminishing film of oil. You also admit that the big-ends will not be to happy. The big end problem alone is sufficient reason not to run the engine without oil, even if it is for just 10 secs or so. This film of oil you talk about will be wiped away very quickly in all places that it is under pressure - all bearing and sliding faces !! The cam in the TD42 is just like any other engine, it has high pressure oil feeds to its bearings and splash lube for the lobes, stop that splash feed and you are asking for trouble.

I'm not going to argue with anyone who does this practice in an attempt to empty the oil filters, its their choice, based on goodness knows what, you can't reason with people who think they know best. I'm basing my argument on fact. Changing the oil filters on a TD42 is no worse than many other engines and once you know what to do it can be done cleanly. Just because a mate does it, or you read on the internet that some bloke as done this all his life and still gets 600kkm out of his engines means nothing, its all hearsay - think for yourselves guys.

I think it was Ford who did a survey and found out that a large percentage of engine problems can be traced to bad servicing practices by the mechanics, not being over fussy with cleanliness for one, but running the engine without oil has got to be ion that list also !

I agree with you pretty much 100% but as I said I really don't think it would make a massive impact on the overall longetivity of the motor. Theyre very hardy and tolerant things.

[macorti]

Hey guys,

Changing the subject a little bit, do you guys think that by letting the engine leaking oil all night long without the oil filters as well until the next day, will be benefit for the engine, does it will cause any advantage at all, like maybe letting more oil reminders go out or something?

[Yom]

Hey guys,

Changing the subject a little bit, do you guys think that by letting the engine leaking oil all night long without the oil filters as well until the next day, will be benefit for the engine, does it will cause any advantage at all, like maybe letting more oil reminders go out or something?

Nope.

I don't even wait. I let the sump drain and once it is dripping out I will remove the filters, wipe up their sealing surfaces, marvell at how shiney the alloy is in the filter housing, oil up with the new filters and put them on, put the sump plug back in and then start filling it up again.

Takes about 20 minutes and requires an 18L drop tray (the first time I ever did it i used a 10L drop tray....oops:p ) and 12L of oil (thats what mine swallows).

[Tracteur Tom]

When I use an engine flush, I park the car on an angle making sure that the sump drain plug is at the lowest point and leave it to drain over night, BUT, I always put the sump plug back in before the cold damp night air gets in and remove again in the morning. Its amazing how much more oil and crude comes out. I NEVER leave the filters off for any longer than necessary and just like Yom, I marvel at the shiney bits behind the filter (sad or wot !).

I like to fill the filters with oil before I fit them and often crank the motor until the OP light goes out before starting it, but not always. Sometimes I think cranking on the starter with no oil pressure is worse than starting it up and getting OP quicker, dunno ? You can buy devices to pressurize the oil system before starting. They are like big reservoirs with a spring/piston in them, connected into the oil pressure switch port, but they are expensive and overkill for our trusty TD42s I think !

[BeNos]

i personally woundnt condone starting an engine of any sort unless on the intend of murdering the thing without oil. and really the oily mess is just like rust proofing just give it a bit of a wipe and if your real keen a degrease and send it on its way. and as for cranking till you get oil pressure. i have never bothered and work on some pretty high tech new age diesels and never had any dramas. if anything starting straight away would be better IN MY EYES due to it would bring up the pressure alot quicker than the started motor.
my 2c worth

[macorti]

Nope.

I don't even wait. I let the sump drain and once it is dripping out I will remove the filters, wipe up their sealing surfaces, marvell at how shiney the alloy is in the filter housing, oil up with the new filters and put them on, put the sump plug back in and then start filling it up again.

Takes about 20 minutes and requires an 18L drop tray (the first time I ever did it i used a 10L drop tray....oops:p ) and 12L of oil (thats what mine swallows).

Hi Yom,

Thanks a lot for the tip.....

[macorti]

Nope.

I don't even wait. I let the sump drain and once it is dripping out I will remove the filters, wipe up their sealing surfaces, marvell at how shiney the alloy is in the filter housing, oil up with the new filters and put them on, put the sump plug back in and then start filling it up again.

Takes about 20 minutes and requires an 18L drop tray (the first time I ever did it i used a 10L drop tray....oops:p ) and 12L of oil (thats what mine swallows).
Hi Yom,

Thanks a lot for the tip.....

[Canuck]

Was planing to fashion a piece of sheet metal with a drain and hose to send the oil from the filters to the pan. Just haven't got around to it yet. But ya, i hate the bloody oil drips coming off the drive shaft.

[skygod]

hi guys, sorry to have been away from this discussion but I've been up the snow woohoo. I guess the idea of running yr engine without oil is like scratching your nails on a black board, but think about it, is it really without oil? where does the oil from the filters go before it drops to the pan? I'd say through the lines and over those sensitive cam thingies and I prob exagerated the time its prob more like 10-20 seconds and the filters don't empty completely just enough so they don't spill when you take them off, I've been doing it for years and the motor is still good as new.

[ITS A FORD NOT A NISSAN]

if you dont want to make a mess , the easiest way is to

























pay someone else to do it :p ;)

[Dust Magnets]

Thanks heaps to everybody for their replies - good to hear everybody's experiences...although I definitely won't be trying the running the engine without oil trick (shudder)!

The bottom end on most 4-stroke engines run 'plain' bearings which means they rely NOT on a film of oil - BUT on having sufficient oil under pressure forcing the surfaces apart so they never come into contact with each other. The white-metal of the bearing surfaces is simply meant to absorb the blows from any contamination - in the hope of avoiding scoring the crank - it is not meant as a lubricant and is definitely not designed to come into close contact with the crank, which is what happens when you run without oil for any time. That is why they say 90% of all wear occurs at start up - while the engine builds oil pressure - as the oil has drained from the bearings over night.

Any mechanic should know that! As has been mentioned here, attempts have been made to reduce the time taken to get to pressure (eg. oil bladder & aux electric oil pumps) to reduce this wear - it is astonishing to me to hear that anybody would want to increase the time their engine spends under these conditions...

Once again, thanks for your replies.

[Tracteur Tom]

So true Dust Magnets. I thought the - run the engine with no oil - posts were a a joke to begin with, but it seems a few people do it. I just wonder how many garages / workshops do it ? Ignorance is bliss !

[BIGBOY]

I have worked in many workshops and have never seen this done by myself or any one else in the past 25 years.

[iain rennie]

i let it run down the block and when it gets to the bottom i rub it all over the chassis to stop the bloomin thing from rusting!

[Tracteur Tom]

Ha Iain, we used to joke about the Landrover "auto chassis oiling system" fitted as standard to all landies !

[Godders]

I worked as a mechanic for a number of years and rebuilt enough pertol and diesel motors. I would not run a motor w/out oil for any reason and have not seen anyone else who would. One of the beauties of a well maintained diesel is its long life, why would you jeopardise that.

[cokeaddict]

OK this is how i have always done my filter changes. Some wont agree but ive covered 600,00 in my first GQ 4.2 diesel and its still running strong today.

Drain the sump oil first(i do mine hot) The longer u leave it the more comes out.
Then i start engine up and run it until the pressure guage drops then shut it down and watch the extra 2 ltrs flow out of ur sump. Once that is done i undo the filters using a rag under them. You dont get much oil at this point UNLESS u undo the filters slow. If u keep them spinning as u undo them no oil drops. THe rag is there incase i loose my spin. I do that to both filters then fit the new ones. ALL DONE.

This does NOT damage your engine. It is the best way to stop the oil spilling down the side of ur engine. There is still enough oil inside to start the engine up lubricated for when u r ready to run again once the new oil has been added of course.

Ange

[Tracteur Tom]

Words fail me. Very sad.

[GNU]

OK this is how i have always done my filter changes. Some wont agree but ive covered 600,00 in my first GQ 4.2 diesel and its still running strong today.

Drain the sump oil first(i do mine hot) The longer u leave it the more comes out.
Then i start engine up and run it until the pressure guage drops then shut it down and watch the extra 2 ltrs flow out of ur sump. Once that is done i undo the filters using a rag under them. You dont get much oil at this point UNLESS u undo the filters slow. If u keep them spinning as u undo them no oil drops. THe rag is there incase i loose my spin. I do that to both filters then fit the new ones. ALL DONE.

This does NOT damage your engine. It is the best way to stop the oil spilling down the side of ur engine. There is still enough oil inside to start the engine up lubricated for when u r ready to run again once the new oil has been added of course.

Ange

I think the user name say's it all!.....LOL, had to be said

[89 GQ]

I agree with GNU and Tracteur Tom also you say this does not damage your engine? Do you have any proof besides the amount of k's on your truck? Also how many litres of oil do you get out of your GQ?

Honestly i can't believe people are recommending running there engine with no oil. What is next adding water to diesel?????

[cokeaddict]

I agree with GNU and Tracteur Tom also you say this does not damage your engine? Do you have any proof besides the amount of k's on your truck? Also how many litres of oil do you get out of your GQ?

Honestly i can't believe people are recommending running there engine with no oil. What is next adding water to diesel?????

Seems to me some of you guys cant understand what was asked here, The question was how do some of us remove the filters, I didnt recommend anything, i simply replied as to how I do it, lets get it right guys. Whatever you believe is your choice, Personally i dont have a problem with any of the replies here, they are simply ways in which individuals do it to their own 4b's,
Im not running the engine without oil. There is enough oil in the feed lines to keep the old girl lubricated. But to each their own i say, works fine for me and im happy doing it without worrying about damage.

What exactly did u mean by how many ltrs i get out of my GQ ?

[pepsi]

Hi All

I do not have much of a view either way as to whether the engine should be started with the oil drained out.

One thing comes to mind is that in the morning when you start your engine and it takes time for the oil light to go out (therefore no oil in the top of the motor, not sure how much of the bottom end sits in the oil, if any), is this not the same as running your engine without oil for a short time? If it is then we probably do this 365 ties per year.

I do not know precisely how and when the oil gets to the parts of the engine as I think a lot of people posting replies would be in the same position.

Having said all this, I changed my oil on the weekend and decided not to start the engine without oil, even though I did consider it. maybe next time I will.

Pepsi

[89 GQ]

What exactly did u mean by how many ltrs i get out of my GQ ?

How much oil comes out in total? Including the 2L that drips out after you crank it?

[cokeaddict]

How much oil comes out in total? Including the 2L that drips out after you crank it?

I get between 10 and 10.5 ltrs in total that drians out over a long period of time ( I leave the sump plug out for a couple of hours). I know this for 2 reasons...
1 i have a 12 ltr drain tin that has a 10 ltr makring line on the sides of the drain tin.

2. I fill the old 10 ltr container up with the old oil and have around half a ltr left.

Remember I drain the oil HOT the car is taken for a good hard drive to heat everything up. Its at normal running temp by the time i get back home. This makes everything flow much easier and drains out quicker.

THe other .5 ltr of oil is still inside the engine components like conrod brgs and rocker shaft, so there is still lubrication there at all times. To run these dry you would have to run the engine for quite a long time to damage things. Its just the way these engines are designed. So if you split a sump while driving, by the time you see the red light on your dash, You still have time to switch the engine off without any permanent engine damage. This is a fact, yes we worry and wonder the worst but thats only cause we love our 4bs. Its human nature to **** urself if that happens.

So again ....here is nothing wrong with the way i do it. BUT thats just after almost 30 years of doing it.

Oh and by the way...i did the same thing on my race car for 10 years, after every race, id drain the oil same way i do my GQ, that engine showed no signs of wear at all between each strip down.

Ange

[Yom]

One thing comes to mind is that in the morning when you start your engine and it takes time for the oil light to go out (therefore no oil in the top of the motor, not sure how much of the bottom end sits in the oil, if any), is this not the same as running your engine without oil for a short time? If it is then we probably do this 365 ties per year.


As you suspected, crank does not sit in the oil. This would be bad for the oil and the crank if it did.

And yes... For those few seconds without oil pressure every single one of is is running our engines with stuff all pressure to float the bearings and we're relying on a quality oil fim to be sitting on all the friction components to stop wear - the worst possible moment for engine wear always has and always will be at startup.

BTW - lol @ cokeaddict vs pepsi. WHO WILL BE THE PREFERRED DRINK?!?!:p

[Tracteur Tom]

And yes... For those few seconds without oil pressure every single one of is is running our engines with stuff all pressure to float the bearings and we're relying on a quality oil fim to be sitting on all the friction components to stop wear - the worst possible moment for engine wear always has and always will be at startup.



The oil pressure light goes out at probably 0.3 - 0.5 bar oil pressure. So during those few seconds after start up, there will be a low pressure before you read it via the light, as the oil pump fills the system - and those problematic oil filters ! Whats important is that there is oil flow, something that you dont have when the pump has no oil to pick up. Its a positive displacement pump, that means its moves oil from its input to its output ports - no oil at the input, no oil is moved at the output. Comparing no oil pressure at start up to running the engine with no oil in an attempt to empty the filters is different.

[Steptoe]

This does NOT damage your engine. It is the best way to stop the oil spilling down the side of ur engine.
Ange

I'd rather spill oil down the side of my engine, than spill the engine all over the engine bay.

:D

[sudso]

If there's enough interest I'll design and fabricate some bolt on "drain" pans that can remain permanently bolted to the engine and direct dripping oil away from the side of the motor. I thought of making one after the first time I changed the filters and oil on my GQ.
I too dont like the set up..........oil over my starter motor etc and cleaning up etc. yeech!

[Yom]

The oil pressure light goes out at probably 0.3 - 0.5 bar oil pressure. So during those few seconds after start up, there will be a low pressure before you read it via the light, as the oil pump fills the system - and those problematic oil filters ! Whats important is that there is oil flow, something that you dont have when the pump has no oil to pick up. Its a positive displacement pump, that means its moves oil from its input to its output ports - no oil at the input, no oil is moved at the output. Comparing no oil pressure at start up to running the engine with no oil in an attempt to empty the filters is different.

Oil at that pressure won't be enough to properly float the big ends during starting? (well, it probably will depend on the amount of wear already experienced and the tolerances at play!) So I'm not sure if its "entirely" different to having just an oil film on there - a film which typically will not allow direct metal on metal contact assuming the oil is of good quality and still serviceable.

[89 GQ]

If there's enough interest I'll design and fabricate some bolt on "drain" pans that can remain permanently bolted to the engine and direct dripping oil away from the side of the motor. I thought of making one after the first time I changed the filters and oil on my GQ.
I too dont like the set up..........oil over my starter motor etc and cleaning up etc. yeech!

How much do you think these would cost approx?

Cheers chris

[GuJohnno]

It's not a bad idea but it would be a major PITA to fit up you would think.

[truckster]

One thing comes to mind is that in the morning when you start your engine and it takes time for the oil light to go out (therefore no oil in the top of the motor, not sure how much of the bottom end sits in the oil, if any), is this not the same as running your engine without oil for a short time? If it is then we probably do this 365 ties per year.
We have a winner.
At least if you do a few klms before changin oil, there will be oil round the engine.

[sudso]

How much do you think these would cost approx?

Cheers chrisDont know until I make one but it would be nominal and of merchantable quality. My TD42 is nearly due for an oil change too so guess what :D


It's not a bad idea but it would be a major PITA to fit up you would think.
Not once the oil filters are off for an oil change but things that are easy for some people are very hard for others. It depends on the individual. But when I make something I do my best to make it as fitter friendly as I can, cos when I was a welder/fitter at a huge food processing plant anyone could have been fitting what I made as well as myself lol.
I had a good look the last time I changed my oil filters and made a couple of workable designs in my head. Might be time to get serious now though.

[Tracteur Tom]

Not wanting to do you out of a nice little earner here Sudso, but an old T shirt works well.

[A.J.]

But I still wouldn't mind a nice pan that catches the stuff and then can be drained. Good plan I reckon.

I have used cut in half cordial bottles in the past but by the time you get them out you spill them anyway :rolleyes:

[sudso]

But I still wouldn't mind a nice pan that catches the stuff and then can be drained. Good plan I reckon.

I have used cut in half cordial bottles in the past but by the time you get them out you spill them anyway :rolleyes:I'm still going to make some. Not going to let frenchy put me off :p

OK this is how i have always done my filter changes. Some wont agree but ive covered 600,00 in my first GQ 4.2 diesel and its still running strong today.

Drain the sump oil first(i do mine hot) The longer u leave it the more comes out.
Then i start engine up and run it until the pressure guage drops then shut it down and watch the extra 2 ltrs flow out of ur sump. Once that is done i undo the filters using a rag under them. You dont get much oil at this point UNLESS u undo the filters slow. If u keep them spinning as u undo them no oil drops. THe rag is there incase i loose my spin. I do that to both filters then fit the new ones. ALL DONE.

This does NOT damage your engine. It is the best way to stop the oil spilling down the side of ur engine. There is still enough oil inside to start the engine up lubricated for when u r ready to run again once the new oil has been added of course.

AngeSome blokes from the speedway here did a little demo at one of our annual shows here a few years back. They ran from cold, an old 250ci Ford engine @ 4000rpm on a stand without oil or water to see how long it would run for.
There was a prize for the person who guessed the closest time.
How long do you think it ran for?

[Canuck]

I would guess it lasted about 3 minutes. I know a guy who hit some crap on the highway which knocked off his oil filter on his mini-van. I think he told me it was about 3 minutes before he got it to the side of the road and off. He required a new engine.

[Tracteur Tom]

Depends how tight is was Sudso. An engine can run for many a mile with a knock and rumble. My lawnmower has been knocking for 2 years now, still starts on the button and runs for the 3 hrs it takes me to cut the grass, all that on splash lube as well ! I guess thats also about the level of mechanical sophistication those american V8s have !

4000 rpm umm, thats asking a bit ...

[AJS]

I'm still going to make some. Not going to let frenchy put me off :p
Some blokes from the speedway here did a little demo at one of our annual shows here a few years back. They ran from cold, an old 250ci Ford engine @ 4000rpm on a stand without oil or water to see how long it would run for.
There was a prize for the person who guessed the closest time.
How long do you think it ran for?

No idea, but I was thinking about making up one of those pans myself, so if you do I'd be interested.

[A.J.]

I'm just going to say it ran for 7minutes :cool:

[Yom]

I think it never ran.

A ford engine, running?!?!!?

Blasphemy!

[ITS A FORD NOT A NISSAN]

I'm still going to make some. Not going to let frenchy put me off :p
Some blokes from the speedway here did a little demo at one of our annual shows here a few years back. They ran from cold, an old 250ci Ford engine @ 4000rpm on a stand without oil or water to see how long it would run for.
There was a prize for the person who guessed the closest time.
How long do you think it ran for?

i recon about 15 mins
edit nah i recon a bit longer

[sudso]

Depends how tight is was Sudso. An engine can run for many a mile with a knock and rumble. My lawnmower has been knocking for 2 years now, still starts on the button and runs for the 3 hrs it takes me to cut the grass, all that on splash lube as well ! I guess thats also about the level of mechanical sophistication those american V8s have !

4000 rpm umm, thats asking a bit ...It did have a lot of miles on it. You're right though, a worn engine can sometimes run for ages without much lube or cooling. The bloke who built a souped up engine for me years ago had imported this Camaro he bought to build up for a drag car. It had a well worn 350 in it and he and his mates ran it without oil or water at flat stick the crazy buggers, (stationary in workshop) to see how long it would go for. Went for 35 minutes before detonating.

[sudso]

As for how long the Ford engine lasted, keep guessing. If someone gets within 30 secs of it you are the winner :victory: and I'll let you know.

[GQuick]

what 250 was it? 2V, x flow, efi? lol YES IT MATTERS