WHICH WINCH ?? PTO or ELECTRIC

[gqturbopatrol]

g'day everyone, im just about to get mi p's and have just got a gq ute,:p anyway the bloke i bought it off had a winch on the front that he took off before he sold it. ive heard alot about pto winches being better than elec. ones because they dont overheat and you can use your gears. but if im right it wont work unless the ute is running. which way should i go elec. or PTO and if i did end up going pto is the attchment plate couvered (do i need to take something off to get to it or is it just on the transfer case ??) space isnt an issue though i dont want to spend too much cash. which way should i go!!!!

thanks, cameron

[Shonky]

G'Day Mate.

You don't see too many PTO winches around these days - mainly because they have been largely superseded by the lighter, cheaper, simpler electric winches.

A PTO winch works by using the drive off the gearbox, and so it will not work if the truck isn't running. Due to the fact that it is integral to the mechanicals, it is more difficult to install than an electric winch.

With prices of electric winches these days you may aswell get one of them. Much better value in my opinion.

[Crooksey]

plus you cant run a PTO of a patrol box as there is no cover plate??

I believe anyway

[Chopper]

go hydraulic

[bucks2]

I have a plate on my MK 5 speed for Power take off.

[aksniss]

go hydraulic

Good option, I did.

[bucks2]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nissan-Patrol-PTO-winch_W0QQitemZ200107521037QQ

[GUDeano]

All patrols up to the gq had a pto with a cover plate and a gear inside the manual gearbox for output. Late in the GQ life Nissan deleted the gear inside but left the plate and you can retrofit the gear from spare parts. in the early GU some had the plate some didn't and then the chaged the caseing and I dont believe it is possible to get a PTO output. (Mate has a business fitting tipping bodies and usually uses PTO on Heavy duty installs if possible)

[DaveM]

While a pto can't run without the engine running, an electric will give limited winching until the battery is flat.
Don't have to worry about mud/water getting into electrics with a pto, but it's easier to winch/drive with an electric.

Both have pro's/cons, I run a pto after going away from electric. For the $1000 I paid for the pto setup, I could have bought a cheap Chinese electric, or flogged out Warn or Superwinch instead.

I use my for dragging logs etc, which would burn out an electric, but it depends on what use it's getting as to whether it's better than electric

[Crooksey]

Another down side to a PTO is you cant drive and winch at the same time, in most cases putting more strain on the winch

[waynejo1]

what do the hydraulics run off

[Davros]

Finding a decent PTO is going to be the main issue, electrics have pretty much made them extinct. Nissan used to make them for japanese Y60's (i've got one on my 88 model) but not since the Y61 (GU) came out. Hydraulics are pretty much the new PTO's these days as they are easier to tailor to different vehicles.

This is the Nissan PTO setup from a 160/MQ, in the Y60/GQ the incab controller in on the right hand side for easier boghole extraction!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u209/nissansafari/1982_160-1.jpg

[Davros]

Another down side to a PTO is you cant drive and winch at the same time, in most cases putting more strain on the winch

You can in the Nissan factory ones as they run off the gearbox - if the transfer is not in N it will drive both the winch and the wheels in either 2H, 4H or 4L.

This also gives 5 different winching gear ratios in either line forward or reverse direction as well and using the throttle to vary the line speed.

A PTO will generally out pull an electric both in tonnage and duration (all day if need be) and its pretty hard to burnout a 4.2 litre diesel winch motor.

But, yes if the TD42 does die then you can't use the winch, unlike electric ones that give a couple of mins of winching before the batteries go flat. The owner then having the option of pushing the vehicle home for a few hundred Km without getting their feet muddy because they winched the first 15 metres through the bog!

cheers,

Dave

[PaulnLou]

Or get a Tirfor and make sure you bring a few strong mates !

[Canuck]

what do the hydraulics run off

They run off your power steering (AKA hydraulic steering). Check out Mile Marker Winches for more information: http://www.milemarker.com/winches.html And yest they run quite nicely under water as long as your engine is still running. It is the best of both a PTO and Electric.

[Shonky]

Or get a Tirfor and make sure you bring a few strong mates !

LOL!

[ROGQ]

i have just put a pto on my gq... it's great.. pretty hard to find though.. there is another one on ebay now.. looks in good nick..if your keen on a pto jump on it cauz they dont come up too often.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190112970970

[GQ TROL]

There seems to be alot of mis-information about PTO winches....

- You can winch and drive at the same time,
- With the GQ, winch speed is dictated by revs only, irrespective of which gear you're in (unless you've got a Toyota box, as the PTO comes of the x-fer case),
- If you're engine is dead, then the batteries will last only a few minutes on your elec. winch anyway (been there, done that),
- They will out-pull an electric winch all day, every day. They will never be as fast as a hydraulic but are significantly cheaper and easier to set-up.

FYI,
The decent hydraulic setups drive the pump off the PTO output, as powersteering pump simply can't handle the jandal of competition work. In a recent 4-day winch comp the first 3 trucks were V8's or petrol turbo, all had hydraulic winches that do 300ft/min (actual figures!!) or more.

[aksniss]

The decent hydraulic setups drive the pump off the PTO output, as powersteering pump simply can't handle the jandal of competition work. In a recent 4-day winch comp the first 3 trucks were V8's or petrol turbo, all had hydraulic winches that do 300ft/min (actual figures!!) or more.

True for comp work they are slow as standard, but then all the comp lads play with gearing and additional hydraulic pumps. The standard power steering pumps aren't that strong, although there is no issue for normal winching with a Patrol power steering pump, can winch all day no probs.

I have the additional dump valve in mine that at a flick of a switch transferrs all the power steering pressure to the winch and none to the steering.

Also have you seen those comp truck hydraulic set ups winch in without load, its like watching someone reeling in a fishing line they go in so fast, cooollll

Also, just for your info the Rocket Industry guys in Sydney import the Milemarker hydraulic winches, as well as the electric ones. For US made (not chinese) winches they are very good, and well priced. Last time I enquired (Dec 06) a 10,000lb hydraulic was $1,500, and the electric ones even cheaper. The TJM hydraulic is just a re badged milemarker.

[Davros]

[quote=GQ TROL]- With the GQ, winch speed is dictated by revs only, irrespective of which gear you're in (unless you've got a Toyota box, as the PTO comes of the x-fer case),
quote]

ahh crap, your right man, I just stuck the PTO selector in R and gearbox in N and out spools the cable, runs off the gearbox input shaft which would explain why the PTO is mounted at the front of the box. Could have sworn it was reeling faster in 3rd than 1st last time I used it too - but impossible!

I should have said "you can stick the gear lever in any position you like"

I'll shut up about PTOs now....and refrain from 'drink posting'

[Grom]

Another down side to a PTO is you cant drive and winch at the same time, in most cases putting more strain on the winch
It's not not correct. You can choose - help your winch with wheels or not. If navigator will keep rope in correct order - it doesn't matter, just select right way of winching.

[Grom]

We have expirience with Mile Mirker hydraulic. Power streering pump gives too low ATF debit to run winch with declared power. After what we had to install additional oil pump instead of AC compressor.

[Grom]

GQ Troll - repect! :) But you are not correct completely. Mechenical winch for real life. And just super-mega-electric-winches for sport. I'm participating all regional event and use 1 PTO winch. I never seen electric winch faster than mine. Of course, I know about ONE fast Warn winch 8812 (do not remember exactly).
My opinion is - mechenical forward and fast electric behind. But! I want to implement system when rear winch will be used to whinching forward and backward.

[GQ TROL]

GQ Troll - repect! :) But you are not correct completely. Mechenical winch for real life. And just super-mega-electric-winches for sport. I'm participating all regional event and use 1 PTO winch. I never seen electric winch faster than mine. Of course, I know about ONE fast Warn winch 8812 (do not remember exactly).
My opinion is - mechenical forward and fast electric behind. But! I want to implement system when rear winch will be used to whinching forward and backward.

I should have pointed out that while the first 3 trucks in this recent comp had hydraulic winches, we finished 4th with our "low tech" PTO. Yes we have a 12volt 8274 mounted behind the cab (facing forward) getting 24volts of loving...but thats just a back-up. For comp work, it is no longer good enough to be able to recover yourself (after rolling etc), you still need to complete the stage in a respectable time, so both our winches are setup to winch forward.

Most guys over here are using SuperDuty winch motors (7.8HP) on their Warn high-mounts (plus a few twin winch motored ones), but only on vehicles smaller than a Hilux. Anything larger than a Hilux, its PTO or hydraulic.

Also have you seen those comp truck hydraulic set ups winch in without load, its like watching someone reeling in a fishing line they go in so fast, cooollll

Also, just for your info the Rocket Industry guys in Sydney import the Milemarker hydraulic winches, as well as the electric ones. For US made (not chinese) winches they are very good, and well priced. Last time I enquired (Dec 06) a 10,000lb hydraulic was $1,500, and the electric ones even cheaper. The TJM hydraulic is just a re badged milemarker.

The hydraulic setups here are almost exclusively using Superwinch HPN8 winches, with pumps driven off either PTO or engine crank. They're cranking to around 2300psi pressure and 300ft/min is now the norm for line speed (used to be 200ft/min) with one particular rig rumoured to be 400ft/min. Much beyond 2300psi results in catestrophic failure of the end housing. Unfortunately you don't get much change from $8k to build it either.

[MoostanQue]

Sorry for a little bit offtopic, but does anybody know the worm/wheel transfer ratio for original Nissan mechanical winch? Couldn't find it anywhere :confused:

Could they be bought at nissan as a spare parts?

[Saris 4x4]

Hi guys,

I've seen a PTO in action for the first time in Poland, and I was shokked.
A electric winch wil work for a few ours of hard winching, but that one went on and on !
Once i've seen that I was sure that I wanted a PTO winch, mounted above the rear axle.
The biggest problem is to get the output gears for the transferbox. It was never sold in Holland, and nobody has experience wit it here.
A PTO winch is in small amount availble, mostly from ex military.
So if anyone has PTO gears for an 1992 GQ 2.8 TD let me know....

[ROGQ]

dunno if he will post to poland... worth a shot

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/PTO-Winch-and-tyre-for-GQ-Patrol-towbar_W0QQitemZ180215441225QQihZ008QQcategoryZ308 62QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2.8 might be different gearbox though... not 100% sure

[Saris 4x4]

Thanks,

This one ended already, but I found another one.

Beste regards, Jip Saris

[GuJohnno]

Most 4WD's would use a winch on a few occasions and most of the time you only need to winch a few meters before you can get going again.

Just get an Ironman winch, $750.00 and 3 year warrenty. Very good value for money.

Note: I do sell these, but not the reason for posting. Just think some other suggestions are over the top for some one starting out. But an interesting read all the same.

Johnno.

[Davros]

Sorry for a little bit offtopic, but does anybody know the worm/wheel transfer ratio for original Nissan mechanical winch? Couldn't find it anywhere :confused:

Could they be bought at nissan as a spare parts?

Not sure or the worm wheel ratio but you can probabably work it out from the wire winding speed to engine speed (i assume this measure is at first wind of the drum)

Wire winding speed to engine speed ratio:

10 meters per minute per 1000 engine rpm

[sim79]

Another down side to a PTO is you cant drive and winch at the same time, in most cases putting more strain on the winch

I have driven heaps of times while using my PTO, no problems. PTOs are heaps better an a electric winch.