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  #1  
Old 21-04-2017, 09:53 PM
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Default GU TD42/Chev 6.5/Duramax vs Land Cruiser 76

Hello People,

Please help me decide on my first 4x4 purchase in Australia. I will be moving in a months time. Need local opinion.

4x4 Experience: Intermediate (owned a stock Jeep Wrangler(petrol) for 5 years, mostly for dune bashing in the Middle Eastern deserts)

What do i wanna do with my next 4x4 "diesel car" ?
--------------------------------------

- I need a top notch "offroader" that can primarily rock crawl like the Jeep Rubicon (steep technical) & drive back home(unlike jeeps).
- It must power through any sand dune / mud hole / river crossing in the continent of Australia with my family in the cabin.
- I need a torque monster that can easily be tuned to low RPM torque of 650+ NM (must kick in at ~1200rpm). (dont care about the power)
- I will not be towing/trailing campers immediately(maybe later)
- It must NOT be a Jeep(unreliable)/Defender(unreliable)

Budget
--------
I can strech it as far as a new Land Cruiser 76 GXL (mods over time)


Vehicles i have narrowed down my search to (in order of preference)
--------------------------------------------------

1) Land Cruiser 76 Wagon GXL { will need a rear coil conversion and few other mods, as rock crawling is its Achilles heel & is tippy like anything i hear - But love the retro charm}
2) Nissan Patrol GU - TD42 {Is just plain OLD man, i find it over priced for such an old vehicle }
3) Nissan Patrol with a Chevy 6.5 Diesel Engine {dont know how reliable/torque-full they can be}
4) Nissan Patrol with a Duramax 6.6 { Torque numbers are twice as much as any other vehicle, but is it reliable?! }

Please post your thoughts..!!

Thanks for humoring a seemingly novice 4x4 enthusiast.
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  #2  
Old 21-04-2017, 10:24 PM
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The LC is a rev happy truck with poor suspension basically not what you want. Custom build a GU with a 6.6 duramax, that is what you're really asking for.
The GU has heaps of potential if you spec it correctly from the ground up. For example I would basically plan with a TD42 or TB45 medium kms grandpa spec GU2 as a platform and Duramax auto it. Prob use a TB48 for front hubs donor for brakes and fit braided lines and keep it auto too
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  #3  
Old 22-04-2017, 07:43 AM
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All depends on your budget. You could build a capable GU with the best of the best in suspension, lockers and a TD42 with a top shelf turbo and pump and a few other bits good for ~200rwkw for less than you could buy a stock standard cruiser, which still needs $20k sunk into it for the coil conversion and other mods. But if money is not an issue why not duramax a GU
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Old 22-04-2017, 09:37 AM
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I don't really understand the "need" for 650nm+ for off-roading and no towing.

Gearing and traction are the two key issues, not torque or power.

Driving conditions in Aus do not really favour "powering through" every situation, it's not like the sandhills of the middle east.

Having said that, your specifications are only met with a GU fitted with a Duramax/Allison combo, with all the other fruit. You will have trouble stopping it, even with the best commonly used brake upgrades, but there is a big brake kit available in South Aust which should be used.

All up your costs will be $AU60k or so plus the vehicle.
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Old 22-04-2017, 09:52 AM
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ACM, you gotta remember that in Middle Eastern 4WD circles, the posture of the spec is as important as the posture of the actual vehicle lol

Wouldn't it be such a warm feel good smile sittin next to a 'cruiser at the lights though: howzzat for money well spent, my custom build Patrol @ $70K v his ARB spec 'Yota @ $70K
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Old 22-04-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boundry Rider View Post
ACM, you gotta remember that in Middle Eastern 4WD circles, the posture of the spec is as important as the posture of the actual vehicle lol
Yes, I wouldn't mind the engines some of those have

I wonder if the OP knows how much it will cost to fill the tanks in AU?
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Old 22-04-2017, 02:33 PM
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Thanks a lot guys, i have come to the right forum... loving it!

I soo needed this reality check on my torque needs. (call it inexperience with diesel vehicles & aus terrain)

Let me rephrase:
I just need a kick ass off roader that can match/exceed the Jeeps offroad & tow 3T later with ease down any terrain.

ACMPatrol & Boundry Rider, (Like UncleBryan hinted) - You guys reckon a well spec'd TD42 will be more than sufficient for what i need ? (future 3T towing as well).It just makes a lot of common sense.

The Duramax is at the bottom of my list: I feel it is an overkill for my requirement. Besides,i fear it will draw a lot of attention & annoyance.(I see them as smoke monsters)


i figure if i get a recent ZD30(low kms) and convert it to TD42 with top specs . I could still keep it under 60k..

BTW

ACMPatrol, I was in Melb last Nov.. I do know it costs around ~$1.26/liter. Here petrol costs $0.35cents/liter & water costs twice as much.

Boundry Rider, "ACM, you gotta remember that in Middle Eastern 4WD circles, the posture of the spec is as important as the posture of the actual vehicle lol"
--- bang on mate..hahaha.. But i dont think the same way for i am not a native..
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Old 22-04-2017, 03:32 PM
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How about a new Y 62.

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk
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Old 22-04-2017, 03:34 PM
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How about a new Y 62.

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk
Driven petrols all my life.. Bored.. want to experience diesels.

Y62 is ugly IMO..
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Old 22-04-2017, 03:45 PM
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Be aware its hard to fit td42s into newer than 07 patrols here in a couple of states they can be done in newer patrols but need to be fitted with the td42ti motor with egr and everything stock then engineering certificates. A td42ti engine will see you with not much change from 10k from a wrecker plus conversion cost
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Old 22-04-2017, 04:10 PM
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GU with a 6.7L Cummins, more torque and a better engine than all the others listed.
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  #12  
Old 22-04-2017, 05:44 PM
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Just rambling thoughts here....

Not sure if TD42 is the best way any longer - 10 years ago, yes. But now, the youngest TD42 engine is 10 years old, and most have done high mileage and are fatigued.

Recent forum members' reports on rebuilding these old engines have been bad, seemingly to do with the engine builders' knowledge of how to fit liners, etc disappearing for this anchor.

There are some members getting insane power out of the CRD, with bigger turbos and ICs, and plenty have a simple reflash of the CRD ECU for excellent, more modest results. But not up to towing 3t - in any case, the GCM for towing with the Patrol is 6t, so legally you can't tow that much with a well fitted out vehicle that might come in at 3.3t on its own (with passengers, fuel, bull bar, batteries, gear). Aussie cops are targeting these issues and penalties are huge.

Somewhere between these 2 could see a CRD performing quite nicely. And relatively cheap and easy to achieve.
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Old 22-04-2017, 07:13 PM
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I have owned a 2002 GU 3.0lt manual patrol (grenaded) the first of the v8 diesel cruiser utes and now have a GU IV 4.8 TI patrol that has been converted to a duramax.

I pondered over the decision for some time to do the duramax conversion as opposed to buying a new 200 series cruiser or y62 patrol. I also drive a 200 series cruiser at work so have had alot of experience with them.

I have done just over 70k in my duramax patrol and absolutley love it. I had a few teething problems in the first 6-12 months, but has since performed without fault. It is not a soot or smoke monster at all. On the bottom tune it runs very clean with little if any soot. The engine/transmissions are very reliable and they get very high mileage from them in the USA.

The torque is something you have to experience, i have only used low range a couple of times since the conversion. It loves the beach/sand driving, the allison 6spd eats the sand and i have never had to use low range even from a dead start in soft powdery sand, once the wheels start to turn no amount of sand or mud stops or labours the motor like the other 4wds i have had. You may not be moving but your wheels are throwing debris everywhere!!. Due to it being a former 4.8 petrol it has 3.5t towing unlike the 3lt. It also has bigger rotors and calipers along with a hydrobooster. I have never wanted for more braking power or started to look at aftermarket braking items. I tow a 4.7m plate alloy boat, that is sometimes loaded with fuel/camping gear and weighs in at 1.3 tonnes and never had a problem stopping. It stops better then my two previous 4wd's.

I dont use it for rock crawling, mainly family holidays and touring. It is unique and puts a smile on my face everytime i start it up, not much can keep up with it on the road.

Having said all of this if i was given a choice between driving my patrol and a 200 series cruiser on the road for extended km i would pick the 200 series everytime. They are far more comfortable and refined then the older GU patrol. If i was given the same option for offroad touring or beach driving i would pick my patrol everytime, nothing like live axle diff locked GU with gobs of torque to get you through the worst of it off road.

I loved my V8TD cruiser ute but it was even more agricultural then the patrol......no good on the highway and like driving a tractor through the city. Rough leaf springs and no auto option. However i never had one bit of trouble with it, they are engineered well even if it is outdated....It was not particularly powerful though, but they are getting good power figures from them with aftermarket turbos etc.

Tough choice you have to make (first world problems!) If i was to do it all over again i dont know if i could spend the money on a duramax conversion......as good as it is, they are just sooo damn expensive to get converted. I dont plan on selling mine as i have invested heavily into the conversion and all the accessories that we like to have and i know if i sold it nothing else would compare to the duramax on it's top power tune with the insane turbo whistle and 6.6 v8 diesel rumble.

I am rambling now but hope the above gives you some food for thought. Just be careful with towing capacity of the 3.0lt auto and manual patrols as none of them were 3.5t.

Have a look here for towing limits and GCM/GVM etc

http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tow.html

Cheers
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  #14  
Old 22-04-2017, 07:25 PM
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^^^ well said
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Old 22-04-2017, 07:45 PM
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Good write up mate


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Old 22-04-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GU3.0 View Post
I have owned a 2002 GU 3.0lt manual patrol (grenaded) the first of the v8 diesel cruiser utes and now have a GU IV 4.8 TI patrol that has been converted to a duramax.

I pondered over the decision for some time to do the duramax conversion as opposed to buying a new 200 series cruiser or y62 patrol. I also drive a 200 series cruiser at work so have had alot of experience with them.

I have done just over 70k in my duramax patrol and absolutley love it. I had a few teething problems in the first 6-12 months, but has since performed without fault. It is not a soot or smoke monster at all. On the bottom tune it runs very clean with little if any soot. The engine/transmissions are very reliable and they get very high mileage from them in the USA.

The torque is something you have to experience, i have only used low range a couple of times since the conversion. It loves the beach/sand driving, the allison 6spd eats the sand and i have never had to use low range even from a dead start in soft powdery sand, once the wheels start to turn no amount of sand or mud stops or labours the motor like the other 4wds i have had. You may not be moving but your wheels are throwing debris everywhere!!. Due to it being a former 4.8 petrol it has 3.5t towing unlike the 3lt. It also has bigger rotors and calipers along with a hydrobooster. I have never wanted for more braking power or started to look at aftermarket braking items. I tow a 4.7m plate alloy boat, that is sometimes loaded with fuel/camping gear and weighs in at 1.3 tonnes and never had a problem stopping. It stops better then my two previous 4wd's.

I dont use it for rock crawling, mainly family holidays and touring. It is unique and puts a smile on my face everytime i start it up, not much can keep up with it on the road.

Having said all of this if i was given a choice between driving my patrol and a 200 series cruiser on the road for extended km i would pick the 200 series everytime. They are far more comfortable and refined then the older GU patrol. If i was given the same option for offroad touring or beach driving i would pick my patrol everytime, nothing like live axle diff locked GU with gobs of torque to get you through the worst of it off road.

I loved my V8TD cruiser ute but it was even more agricultural then the patrol......no good on the highway and like driving a tractor through the city. Rough leaf springs and no auto option. However i never had one bit of trouble with it, they are engineered well even if it is outdated....It was not particularly powerful though, but they are getting good power figures from them with aftermarket turbos etc.

Tough choice you have to make (first world problems!) If i was to do it all over again i dont know if i could spend the money on a duramax conversion......as good as it is, they are just sooo damn expensive to get converted. I dont plan on selling mine as i have invested heavily into the conversion and all the accessories that we like to have and i know if i sold it nothing else would compare to the duramax on it's top power tune with the insane turbo whistle and 6.6 v8 diesel rumble.

I am rambling now but hope the above gives you some food for thought. Just be careful with towing capacity of the 3.0lt auto and manual patrols as none of them were 3.5t.

Have a look here for towing limits and GCM/GVM etc

Beadell Tours - 4WD VEHICLE TOWING COMPARISONS

Cheers
There is nothing like the perspective of an eloquent owner.. Thanks Gu3.0 , that makes a strong case for the Duramax.

Things i have learnt so far:

- TD42, although can serve my purpose - is ageing, and money may be better spent on the more powerful v8's. (I think its time to move on to v8's for me as they are the present and the future IMO)
- Chev v8 6.5 is not on anyone's recommendation list.
- *Choosing the base model to convert on is very important* (the GCM and the braking sytem watchout's+other limitations).

My impression of the Duramax was of a sooty engine from the youtube videos.. nice to know otherwise.

I did get a hefty $45 quote for the conversion.. and have also seen converted ones(with all the fruit) for sale around the 70k figure.

I cant thank you guys enough.. I am learning soo much with each post.. just brilliant.!
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Old 22-04-2017, 10:25 PM
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Simple option is a lower km TD42 GU. Then do the mods to obtain the power and torque you need. If you want to tow a big load then a 12mm pump and good turbo combo will deliver the torque needed for this.

This would be a lot less work than a conversion. You have mentioned the cost is not an issue, however the hassles of a conversion may be best avoided unless you are devoted. Of course, a lot of us are devoted.
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Old 22-04-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQshayne View Post
Simple option is a lower km TD42 GU. Then do the mods to obtain the power and torque you need. If you want to tow a big load then a 12mm pump and good turbo combo will deliver the torque needed for this.

This would be a lot less work than a conversion. You have mentioned the cost is not an issue, however the hassles of a conversion may be best avoided unless you are devoted. Of course, a lot of us are devoted.
Not many low km GU wagons around.

OP mentioned family so ute is probably not an option.

This option is manual transmission only.

Never buy a GU TD42 unless you have done thorough checks on it, have seen it and touched it - these are a huge scammers bait item.
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Old 23-04-2017, 07:11 AM
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Gives you an example of td price i think its overpriced for the kms it has gos gear but still 425k

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Old 23-04-2017, 07:25 AM
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No point me adding anymore but why oh why is a 76 on the list......

There some gem td's still out there.
My latest one was 11.5k with 215k on the clock and full grandad spec.
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