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  #1  
Old 10-08-2013, 02:49 PM
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Default Td42 injector pump failing

Having problems with my injector pump pumping fuel. I've just replaced bearings, rings and con rods in the engine and after putting it all back together I can't get fuel to my injectors. Fuel solenoid still clicks, I've bled the injector pump and filter several times now, no air in the lines as far as I know but still just no fuel when I wind the engine over. Was wondering if anyone knows what my problem might be?
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:33 PM
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It sounds from what you are telling us that you've bled from the tank to the filter, and then bled the lines from the filter to the pump, but have you bled each of the fuel lines from the injector pump to the injectors?

Once you know you've got fuel at the appropiate pressure reaching the I/P, you need to crack each of the fuel lines one at a time at the injectors and check that you are actually getting fuel thru to each injector, making sure that the fuel cut solenoid is disconnected so it won't start. BUT, you need to be extremely careful that you don't get sprayed with high pressure diesel while you are doing this - high pressure diesel hitting your bare skin or even on your clothes can go straight thru skin &/or clothes and into your bloodstream, and that can be fatal!!!! So be very careful and make sure that you read up on the process in your workshop manual (if you don't have one, get one - a Gregory's or Hayne's is usually OK, best $50 you'll ever spend on keeping your vehicle running fine) before giving it a go - it's not really hard, you've just gotta pay attention to the safety aspects and be careful not to break either the fuel line to the injector or the line linking them all together by letting either twist while you are undoing things.

Good Luck
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aawen4x4 View Post
It sounds from what you are telling us that you've bled from the tank to the filter, and then bled the lines from the filter to the pump, but have you bled each of the fuel lines from the injector pump to the injectors?

Once you know you've got fuel at the appropiate pressure reaching the I/P, you need to crack each of the fuel lines one at a time at the injectors and check that you are actually getting fuel thru to each injector, making sure that the fuel cut solenoid is disconnected so it won't start. BUT, you need to be extremely careful that you don't get sprayed with high pressure diesel while you are doing this - high pressure diesel hitting your bare skin or even on your clothes can go straight thru skin &/or clothes and into your bloodstream, and that can be fatal!!!! So be very careful and make sure that you read up on the process in your workshop manual (if you don't have one, get one - a Gregory's or Hayne's is usually OK, best $50 you'll ever spend on keeping your vehicle running fine) before giving it a go - it's not really hard, you've just gotta pay attention to the safety aspects and be careful not to break either the fuel line to the injector or the line linking them all together by letting either twist while you are undoing things.

Good Luck

Hmmm ummm how do you get fuel to the injectors if the fuel cur solenoid has no power? FFS!
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:26 PM
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Got a point, not thinking too well atm, so pull the glow plugs instead, cos you don't really want your engine starting while you are doing this, nor do you want to get sprayed by injector pressure diesel - but have you tried to see if you've got fuel going from the I/P to the injectors yet??

Get air in the secondary side (the distributor head side) of the I/P and even tho you can circulate fuel from the tank to the I/P and back again, compressed air won't necessarily crack the injectors open and until you get rid of any air in there, your engine isn't likely to run. You need to bleed the filter, bleed the I/P, then bleed the injectors.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aawen4x4 View Post
Got a point, not thinking too well atm, so pull the glow plugs instead, cos you don't really want your engine starting while you are doing this, nor do you want to get sprayed by injector pressure diesel - but have you tried to see if you've got fuel going from the I/P to the injectors yet??

Get air in the secondary side (the distributor head side) of the I/P and even tho you can circulate fuel from the tank to the I/P and back again, compressed air won't necessarily crack the injectors open and until you get rid of any air in there, your engine isn't likely to run. You need to bleed the filter, bleed the I/P, then bleed the injectors.
Wouldnt waste your time. Leave everything connected and crack all 6 lines and crank over until fuel is coming out then lock up and keep cranking. Undo one at a time maybe and she should fire up.
These old school mechnical ip dont have that higher fuel pressure. Your thinking crd injection with the crazy high pressures
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:43 PM
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Yeah I have had the injectors cracked but no diesel is reaching them so I cracked a line at the back of the injection pump and no diesel whatsoever is coming out. The fuel solenoid is clicking so I think it may still be working.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:52 PM
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Pulled the solenoid out and ruled it out. Makes me think there's something wrong with the pump
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:07 PM
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Default injector pump

most injector pumps have a very fine gauze filter built into fuel inlet, it could have got blocked with dirt. worth a look at. not all pumps have them as some times they have been taken out or left out, it will be where fuel inlet pipe goes onto pump, can be inside banjo bolt or a fitting inside pump housing. if you put an allen key into fuel feed hole and can touch the bottom of the pump then the filter is not there. hope you understand what i mean.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:37 PM
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Yeah I understand what you mean but the pump is full of diesel as I could see it in the fuel solenoid hole and when I bleed it diesel does come out of the bleed screw on the injection pump. If the filter you're talking about was blocked wouldn't that stop the diesel from being bled though?
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:31 PM
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Diesel might come out of the I/P, but if it doesn't get to the injectors at a high enough pressure to crack them open, your engine isn't going to run!? And yeah, it could be that the pump is the cause of the problem, but usually when that's the case, the lift/transfer pump primary stage of the I/P doesn't work too well either, so it takes a fair amount of revs (over 3,000 rpm usually) to lift fuel from the tank up to the I/P before the secondary distributor/injector stage gets to push higher pressure fuel up to the injectors at the right time/pressure to get the engine to fire. If your I/P isn't starving of fuel as you turn it over via the starter, (as it would if that little thimble filter is blocked) then there's a good chance the injector lines are air-locked and the injectors won't ever open to clear that stoppage until you bleed enough of them to get the engine to start/run; and if they aren't all bled, the 'injector knock' caused by the others not firing can be even more damaging.

Buuut, re the diesel under the skin thing, the pressure required to crack the injectors is fairly high, and even old style injector pumps can blast diesel out at high enough pressure to inject enough into you to kill you - cos once it's injected under your skin it can cause gangrene & other things so quickly that it takes a pretty swift amputation in order to avoid a pin hole sized 'injection' that doesn't even hurt turning into a fatality! Look it up, it does happen, and while it may be less frequent than some other HP injection issues, it occurs often enough for it to be widely recognised as an occupational hazard for people working with old school I/P's & Injection systems as well as CRD diesels. Here's a rough outline of what goes on, there's a lot more if you want to check: High pressure injection injury - Everything2.com
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:54 PM
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Is there a way to tell if the pump is working? My problem isn't trying to bleed my high pressure fuel lines it's getting the I/P to pump fuel all together. Like I said before I've had the lines off the back of the I/P and with the cut off solenoid plunger out and no diesel is coming out at all.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:45 PM
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If you've bled the fuel lines at the filter, bled the I/P at the inlet banjo AND at the outlet bleed screw, and you've got fuel at all those places - and you've then tried to bleed fuel at the injectors or cracked the pipe outlets on the distributor head (on the end of the I/P itself) and you aren't getting any fuel out of the dist head or injector lines, then there is a good chance that the I/P isn't pushing anything out the secondary stage/distributor head, which means it sounds like strip down and re-build the pump time. Sorry.

Last edited by aawen4x4; 11-08-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:52 PM
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Hope not. Funds are pretty short at the moment.. I guess I'll just pull the damn thing out next week and take it to a diesel mechanic or something.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:56 PM
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Was it running before you ttore the engine.down?

Sent from somewhere where I shouldn't be posting on forums
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:21 PM
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Yeah it was working fine.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:44 PM
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Did you pull the I/P off the engine at all??

If you did, when you put it back you didn't mis-align the pump, leave it loose, or maybe drop the little key that holds the injector drive gear into the bottom of the front cover did you??

What was it that killed the engine before the re-build, just old age/lotsa kms or did it die due to dodgy fuel or it ran to empty too often? Unless the fuel quality/lack of said fuel was involved with the dying engine, it really shouldn't have killed the pump too, so maybe you hafta look to see what you haven't done when you've re-assembled everything, timed it, etc?? How long did the pump sit without fuel in it? Could the plunger, seals, O'rings etc have dried out/failed or maybe even have a plug of spider eggs or wasp nests in there??
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:46 PM
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I bent a con rod in it after it the engine breathed in some water. It died halfway through a river and the I/P would've been sitting under water for about 2-3hours before it got pulled out of the water.

The only thing I touched on the IP was removing the lines off the back, I covered the holes up so nothing could get in though. Timing gears or their covers weren't touched throughout the process either.

If it helps after it was out of the water I got all the water out of the engine and ran it before it was pulled apart to check for a bent Conrod and the IP was working fine then.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:48 PM
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The was water in the fuel tank but it got drained and I blew through the lines to get all the water out before I ran it.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:00 AM
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It is actually not uncommon to break the main input shaft to the Injection pump, when they take a bath.
IF the engine temp is nice and high, all the tolerances in the pump have settled and are all at operating temps. Now when you take a bath ( I have even seen it happen when high pressure cleaning them) the outer case quenches quickly and shrinks, locking up on the shaft.
Causes the fracture. When you remove the pump as you said you might, Try and turn the input shaft by hand.
It should turn relatively easy but you should feel pronounced notches as it rotates.
this is the plunger riding up on the cam ring and is normal.
If there is no resistance or the shaft has any movement in it, fair chance you have broken the shaft.
Not saying it is a definite, just another possibility.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:19 AM
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Well I guess I've exhausted most other options. It just confuses me as to why it was working fine until I actually put the engine back together. Barring the engine over backwards or anything like that wouldn't have hurt it would it?
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