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  #1761  
Old 16-03-2017, 11:51 PM
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WAs largest gas producer Alinta is being sold to the Chinese. This country will soon be ducked if we don't stop selling all of our resources, which we get very little for.
This is now coming as a surprise?

Howard kicked off the wholesale rape of our state-owned utilities and now we're starting to see the wisdom of those decisions. I'm glad that many of the grey power Howard voters are still around to see the results of the choices they made, and I hope that they cop a few more blackouts and massive bills to ram it home before they shuffle off. F%$@ers.
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  #1762  
Old 17-03-2017, 07:21 AM
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If Howard had not have done that, what do you think the energy market and production mix would look like now with a static and stale, know-all, deity-in-their-own-eyes State Government Agencies and Commissions running energy?
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  #1763  
Old 17-03-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Squalo View Post
Howard kicked off the wholesale rape of our state-owned utilities ...
Sure about that? I seem to recall that it started in the mid nineties under Keating. I remember the tremendous political bunfight that transpired from the sale of Gladstone power station (Qld's largest) to private enterprise in what would have been '93 or '94. Well before Howard at any rate. I really don't know who started utility privatisation or why but the power grid we have now is way better than it used to be.

When I was a kid (60s - 70s) the whole electrical infrastructure was state owned and blackouts in NQ were a regular part of life. Now they only happen when we get a decent size cyclone like Yasi rip through the area.
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  #1764  
Old 17-03-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Squalo View Post
This is now coming as a surprise?

Howard kicked off the wholesale rape of our state-owned utilities and now we're starting to see the wisdom of those decisions. I'm glad that many of the grey power Howard voters are still around to see the results of the choices they made, and I hope that they cop a few more blackouts and massive bills to ram it home before they shuffle off. F%$@ers.
Ha, the one eyed rose tinted glasses brigade is back.

A little history refresher for you.

Commonwealth Privatisations under Labor Fed Government
1988, Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services, 14.9 mil, Hawke
1988, Defence Service House Corporation Loan Portfolio, 1,515mil, Hawke
1991, Australian Defence Force Home Loan Franchise, 42mil, Hawke
1991, Commonwealth Housing Loan Assistance Schemes in the ACT, 47.3mil, Hawke
1992, Australian Airlines, 400mil, Keating
1993, 25% of Qantas, 665mil, Keating
1993, Commonwealth Bank Secondary Public Share Offer, 1,700mil, Keating
1993, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation, 1.5mil, Keating
1994, Moomba-Sydney Pipeline System, 534mil, Keating
1994, CSL (former Commonwealth Serum Laboratories) Public Share Offer, 300mil, Keating
1994, Commonwealth Uranium Stockpile, 57mil, Keating
1995, Aerospace Technologies of Australia Pty Ltd, 40mil, Keating
1995, Qantas Public Share Offer, 1,400mil, Keating.

state Labor governments
1994, Queensland Gladstone Power Station, 750mil, Goss (ALP)
1997, NSW TAB, 936mil, Carr (ALP)
1999, Queensland TAB, 268mil, Beattie (ALP)
2006, NSW DirectLink, 170mil, Iemma (ALP)
2006, Queensland Allgas Energy, 535mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2006, Queensland Sun Retail, 1,202mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2007, Queensland Powerdirect, 1,200mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2010, Queensland QR National 66% sale, 4,050mil, Bligh (ALP)
2010, NSW NSW Lotteries 1011 Rees/Keneally (ALP)
2010, NSW First tranche of electricity assets, 5,300mil, Keneally (ALP)
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  #1765  
Old 17-03-2017, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DB-101 View Post
Ha, the one eyed rose tinted glasses brigade is back.

A little history refresher for you.

Commonwealth Privatisations under Labor Fed Government
1988, Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services, 14.9 mil, Hawke
1988, Defence Service House Corporation Loan Portfolio, 1,515mil, Hawke
1991, Australian Defence Force Home Loan Franchise, 42mil, Hawke
1991, Commonwealth Housing Loan Assistance Schemes in the ACT, 47.3mil, Hawke
1992, Australian Airlines, 400mil, Keating
1993, 25% of Qantas, 665mil, Keating
1993, Commonwealth Bank Secondary Public Share Offer, 1,700mil, Keating
1993, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation, 1.5mil, Keating
1994, Moomba-Sydney Pipeline System, 534mil, Keating
1994, CSL (former Commonwealth Serum Laboratories) Public Share Offer, 300mil, Keating
1994, Commonwealth Uranium Stockpile, 57mil, Keating
1995, Aerospace Technologies of Australia Pty Ltd, 40mil, Keating
1995, Qantas Public Share Offer, 1,400mil, Keating.

state Labor governments
1994, Queensland Gladstone Power Station, 750mil, Goss (ALP)
1997, NSW TAB, 936mil, Carr (ALP)
1999, Queensland TAB, 268mil, Beattie (ALP)
2006, NSW DirectLink, 170mil, Iemma (ALP)
2006, Queensland Allgas Energy, 535mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2006, Queensland Sun Retail, 1,202mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2007, Queensland Powerdirect, 1,200mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2010, Queensland QR National 66% sale, 4,050mil, Bligh (ALP)
2010, NSW NSW Lotteries 1011 Rees/Keneally (ALP)
2010, NSW First tranche of electricity assets, 5,300mil, Keneally (ALP)
That's just ALP sell offs
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  #1766  
Old 18-03-2017, 07:40 AM
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That's just ALP sell offs
Yep, was just highlighting to Sqaulo that is was not Little Johnny Howard who started this chit fight about the "wholesale rape of our state-owned utilities". (Funny, as federal has no control over stated owned utilities)

It was in fact Labor.

Energy Infrastructure.

"1993, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation, 1.5mil, Keating" (although technically a consulting firm, it was a show case of Australian expertise around the world and made a profit, now with the proposed Snowy expansion we will have to pay some millions to a foreign company to engineer it)

"1994, Moomba-Sydney Pipeline System, 534mil, Keating"
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  #1767  
Old 18-03-2017, 08:27 AM
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Johnny's sell offs probably just hit home a bit for for him because of the Telstra sell off
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  #1768  
Old 18-03-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DB-101 View Post
Ha, the one eyed rose tinted glasses brigade is back.

A little history refresher for you.

Commonwealth Privatisations under Labor Fed Government
1988, Commonwealth Accommodation and Catering Services, 14.9 mil, Hawke
1988, Defence Service House Corporation Loan Portfolio, 1,515mil, Hawke
1991, Australian Defence Force Home Loan Franchise, 42mil, Hawke
1991, Commonwealth Housing Loan Assistance Schemes in the ACT, 47.3mil, Hawke
1992, Australian Airlines, 400mil, Keating
1993, 25% of Qantas, 665mil, Keating
1993, Commonwealth Bank Secondary Public Share Offer, 1,700mil, Keating
1993, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation, 1.5mil, Keating
1994, Moomba-Sydney Pipeline System, 534mil, Keating
1994, CSL (former Commonwealth Serum Laboratories) Public Share Offer, 300mil, Keating
1994, Commonwealth Uranium Stockpile, 57mil, Keating
1995, Aerospace Technologies of Australia Pty Ltd, 40mil, Keating
1995, Qantas Public Share Offer, 1,400mil, Keating.

state Labor governments
1994, Queensland Gladstone Power Station, 750mil, Goss (ALP)
1997, NSW TAB, 936mil, Carr (ALP)
1999, Queensland TAB, 268mil, Beattie (ALP)
2006, NSW DirectLink, 170mil, Iemma (ALP)
2006, Queensland Allgas Energy, 535mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2006, Queensland Sun Retail, 1,202mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2007, Queensland Powerdirect, 1,200mil, Beattie/Bligh (ALP)
2010, Queensland QR National 66% sale, 4,050mil, Bligh (ALP)
2010, NSW NSW Lotteries 1011 Rees/Keneally (ALP)
2010, NSW First tranche of electricity assets, 5,300mil, Keneally (ALP)
Bloody hell that's $20.9387 billion
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  #1769  
Old 19-03-2017, 08:34 AM
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Bloody hell that's $20.9387 billion
Which pales into insignificance by the 72billion worth of assets sold off by the Howard gvt
http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/s...nherited-debt/
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  #1770  
Old 19-03-2017, 08:34 AM
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Yep, and under Hawke / Keating there were no major infrastructure projects, building better cities was about it, and that cost 830 mill.

The rest went on higher welfare payments and more foreign aid. Kinda sold the family jewels and gave the proceeds away.
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  #1771  
Old 19-03-2017, 08:40 PM
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Which pales into insignificance by the 72billion worth of assets sold off by the Howard gvt
The truth about Howard's 'inherited debt' | Illawarra Mercury
That article seems to be written in favour of Labor's financial management but the numbers don't really support that. Hawke took over from Fraser with a $40b deficit. The Hawke/Keating govs sold $13b in gov assets and handed over to the Howard gov with the treasury $96b in deficit so not including their assett sales the Labor years saw an operating deficit of $69b. The Howard years saw asset sales of $72b beginning with a $96b deficit and handed over to the Rudd/Gillard labor gov with a $29b surplus so not including asset sales the Liberal years saw an operating surplus of $53b.

The simple fact is that all brands of government have sold off assets at both state and federal level. To try and paint one worse than another just shows the direction of a person's political leaning.

As far as financial management is concerned, the runs are well and truly on the board that Labor outstrips the Libs as far as social reform is concerned but they can't manage money to save themselves.

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Originally Posted by DB-101 View Post
Yep, and under Hawke / Keating there were no major infrastructure projects,
Construction of the Burdekin Dam, one of Australia's largest, was the work of the Hawke government. Not one dam has been built by any federal government since (30yrs).
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  #1772  
Old 19-03-2017, 08:51 PM
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Construction of the Burdekin Dam, one of Australia's largest, was the work of the Hawke government. Not one dam has been built by any federal government since (30yrs).
They're no longer making new valleys with suitable geological, hydrographic and geographical locations either.

Tassie has built a couple dams creating a reservoir >1,000,000m^3 since Burdekin Falls, being; Darwin (1990) and Crotty (1991) Dams creating Lake Burbury.
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  #1773  
Old 19-03-2017, 08:58 PM
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That article seems to be written in favour of Labor's financial management but the numbers don't really support that. Hawke took over from Fraser with a $40b deficit. The Hawke/Keating govs sold $13b in gov assets and handed over to the Howard gov with the treasury $96b in deficit so not including their assett sales the Labor years saw an operating deficit of $69b. The Howard years saw asset sales of $72b beginning with a $96b deficit and handed over to the Rudd/Gillard labor gov with a $29b surplus so not including asset sales the Liberal years saw an operating surplus of $53b.

The simple fact is that all brands of government have sold off assets at both state and federal level. To try and paint one worse than another just shows the direction of a person's political leaning.

As far as financial management is concerned, the runs are well and truly on the board that Labor outstrips the Libs as far as social reform is concerned but they can't manage money to save themselves.



Construction of the Burdekin Dam, one of Australia's largest, was the work of the Hawke government. Not one dam has been built by any federal government since (30yrs).
You are welcome to your opinion. I didn't write the article.
There are various articles claiming the IMF gave the Howard gvt a poor rating given the mining boom over which they presided.
I don't disagree with the generalisation that coalition governments spend less.
They are less apt to care about social equality too.
In any case by world standards Australian gvt debt is low.
These posts are also in the wrong thread.
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  #1774  
Old 20-03-2017, 02:15 AM
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They're no longer making new valleys with suitable geological, hydrographic and geographical locations either.

Tassie has built a couple dams creating a reservoir >1,000,000m^3 since Burdekin Falls, being; Darwin (1990) and Crotty (1991) Dams creating Lake Burbury.
There are a bunch of suitable valleys that would be perfect sites for dams, a few more on the Burdekin River in fact.

The Tassie dams have been built by the state gov. The federal gov spends bugger all on infrastructure anymore unless it has an NBN tag on it.

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I didn't write the article.
I wasn't critical of you warty, I was critical of the article.

Quote:
These posts are in the wrong thread
Quite true.
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  #1775  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:03 AM
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Yes, Climate Change topic will inevitably contain something political but we need to keep general political comments for the political thread.
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  #1776  
Old 20-03-2017, 09:26 AM
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Construction of the Burdekin Dam, one of Australia's largest, was the work of the Hawke government. Not one dam has been built by any federal government since (30yrs).
The feasibility study was before parliament in 1980, and the bill to build was submitted to parliament and passed in 1982 (Fraser), Hawke my have been the PM when the building started, but the long process was started long before him.

Like many pollies (on both sides) they claim the glory of what others started.

And yes, both side sell assets, but it is only labor that screams when the libs sell an asset, not the other way around.

It is only labor who shouts 'we are against privatisation' and then when elected immediately sells public assets.
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Old 20-03-2017, 04:09 PM
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There are a bunch of suitable valleys that would be perfect sites for dams, a few more on the Burdekin River in fact.

The Tassie dams have been built by the state gov. The federal gov spends bugger all on infrastructure anymore unless it has an NBN tag on it.
Are these 'perfect sites' in locations where the water can be exploited without having to build 500km pipelines, destroy vast amounts of native vegetation to open new agricultural land or adversely effect natural river flows (potentially causing another Murray-Darling situation)?

Water is generally a State controlled resource except for the Murray-Darling and Snowy systems because of the interstate nature of the catchment. The Fed will only provide funds for development outside the MDB or Snowy if the State's apply for development grants. With that in mind, where would the Fed build dams and who is the beneficiary and how do they benefit?

Old mate Barnaby's build dams concept is a QLD and NSW state issue, he's just suggesting it happen.
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  #1778  
Old 21-03-2017, 08:50 AM
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Are these 'perfect sites' in locations where the water can be exploited without having to build 500km pipelines, destroy vast amounts of native vegetation to open new agricultural land or adversely effect natural river flows (potentially causing another Murray-Darling situation)?
There are two other decent locations on the Burdekin River for dams where the water could be released in a controlled manner so that it ends up in the current Burdekin dam which is already connected to extensive water distribution infrastructure. Sure there will be an impact on river flows and a few thousand hectares of land will go underwater but this happens with any dam.

Quote:
.. where would the Fed build dams and who is the beneficiary and how do they benefit?
They would build dams where the state gov can't afford to just like they used to in the past. They then hand the dam over to the state water board which is what has always happened. We live in a country where our constitution gives the job of taxation to the feds but the job of providing most services to the states. Consequently most infrastructure is built with federal money, either directly by the feds or indirectly by the state with money given to them by the feds. The beneficiaries are the people in the region that need water. This includes farmers, nearby towns and cities.

Many of the locations for dams suggested in the Bradfield Scheme 80 years ago are still great locations for dams. Bradfield envisaged diverting water west of the great divide to irrigate inland Australia but the plan was never going to work because of all the infrastructure required as well as the dams. Mainly due to population growth there is now demand for that water much closer to the dam locations where it can be economically distributed. The location of the current Burdekin dam was one that Bradfield has suggested and that dam has greatly extended farming in the lower Burdekin catchment as well as providing a secure backup water supply for Townsville. This required a pipeline of about 60km from one of the existing irrigation channels to the town's existing water treatment plant. This is not a gravity fed pipe and requires pumping. There is a suitable route for a gravity fed pipe from the dam to the town but that would require a pipeline an extra 100km long which is hard to justify when the city only needs to draw water from the Burdekin every 5 to 10 years and it has to pay the state gov for the water it uses. Even so, Townsville would be well and truly stuffed without it. Currently there is planning underway for the city to have its own dam on the Burdekin at Hell's Gates (another Bradfield dam location). This would require a gravity fed pipeline of 150km or water could be released into the existing Burdekin dam and the city would then purchase water from the state gov a greatly reduced rate. The problem with this new dam is cost. The current Burdekin dam has a spillway more than half a kilometer long and has had 8.6m of water over the top of it with total capacity for over 15m. At the rate of an 8.6m flood the escaping water would fill Sydney Harbour in 4 hours. The only sort of dam that can cope with that sort of torrent is a solid concrete gravity dam which are the dearest type to build. Townsville could not afford such a project and it is unlikely the state would be willing to build it for the city for free. The city will be looking to the feds to support the project. There is extensive grazing land between Townsville and the Mingella Range that could be turned into farmland if the water was available.

I know some detail about this example because it would impact me but there are other examples of dams that should be built that I've heard about.

As climate change begins to have more impact on local rainfalls this country is going to require more dams. There will also be big improvements in economical use of water which will mitigate this to some extent but growing populations and more irregular rainfall will make the building of more dams unavoidable.
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Old 25-03-2017, 08:15 PM
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Well if you believe it is changing, that makes your stance that we shouldn't bother curbing our admissions counterintuitive, hence my confusion at your posting that quote.
The argument that we aren't contributing by burning aeons of stored carbon in a geological nanosecond doesn't stack up unless you are a vested interest funding a doubt campaign.
It doesn't mean that at all. If you believe that the climate is changing but so insignificantly due to human action and that changing our ways will not have any significant or forseeable effect.

I believe we should find ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels, but because they are a limited resource and won't last forever

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Old 25-03-2017, 09:44 PM
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It doesn't mean that at all. If you believe that the climate is changing but so insignificantly due to human action and that changing our ways will not have any significant or forseeable effect.

I believe we should find ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels, but because they are a limited resource and won't last forever

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
There probably are a few people who do think that way as a result of the fossil fuel doubt campaign. Straight out of the tobacco industry play book
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