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  #1  
Old 11-11-2008, 08:00 PM
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Default Bleeding Clutch

Ive been needing to bleed up the clutch in our 92 TD42 wagon for a while and tried today. In theory its simple ie bleed it off at the bleed point then the slave. No air is coming through anymore but now there is not enough travel to even get into gear. (Worked before but pedal was low)

When pumping the pedal,occasionly (odd the odd push it will go easy, hardish again for a few pumps then easy. (engine off so vacuum is not at fault)I am suspecting the master cylinder. Im guessing the plunger seal isnt flaring under pressure occasionly or something like that...


Has anyone been in a simular situation where the master has been replaced and all their problems went away?
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:14 AM
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Mate, you're pretty much right. If you are sure that you have bled it correctly, then I would say the slave cylinder is faulty. The booster, even if faulty should not prevent you engaging gears, it would only cause the pedal to be either too soft or hard.

Check the hoses to ensure there is no leaks. If none, I would suggest, bleeding it one more time and if that fails, change the slave cylinder.

Cheers
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:34 AM
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[quote=Water Patrol)
Check the hoses to ensure there is no leaks. If none, I would suggest, bleeding it one more time and if that fails, change the slave cylinder.

Cheers[/quote]
I'd agree , I changed my slave cyclinder 3 times ( each one lasted about 1 or 2 weeks) before i got a good one , each one was reco'd from reputable company
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:35 AM
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it will be the seal around the output rod in the master. Don't replace the master as it will only be the seal.
Al
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:43 AM
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Mate i had the same problems as you, ended up replacing master,slave,booster, all to find out it was air in the lines. It was very inconsistent, sometimes i could get a gear, sometimes i couldnt. When i could the clutch would slip as it was not engageing properly. The same thing with the pumping pedal going from hard to soft aswell. A specialist told me some can just be a ***** to bleed.

How i ended up doing it, well the first time even the mechanic couldnt bleed it so he took it to a specialist and they put some machine on it to push the air out. I then had to bleed it later on and found out that if you fully take of the bleed nipple on the passanger side and give the peddle a good hard push, it should get all the air out. Obviously put the nipple back in before you let the clutch out. Might even have to try a few times. I had alot of headaches and went through a lot of bottles of fluid over these bloody clutches haha. As soon as i did the nipple trick a big burst of air came out first go.

This might not be your problem but it might save you some $$$ to try this first. Sounds identical to what mine. Good luck with it..
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
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mine was a ***** to bleed aswell i went through a couple of bottles of fliud, but on mine the seal in the slave kept failing , apparently a dodge batch of seals , but yeah give it a good bleed first , good luck
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:22 PM
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Here is a trick I have picked up from bleeding trucks, get an oil can (squib can) and a piece of hose to go over the bleed nipple, then take out most (not all) the fluid from the dash pot and fill the oil can with fluid, put it on the bleed nipple and pump the fluid in from there.

Air will travel up easier than down and you can get it all out and change the fluid without too much trouble.

I have to do mine after a clutch change but I don't have a squib can.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:50 PM
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Gday i had a similar problem when i picked my car up from the car yard for the first time they gave it a service for me and the apprentice replaced fluid in clutch master cylinder with transmision fluid stuffed the seals in slave cylinder lucky it was under warrenty got a new slave cylinder out of it.
About twelve months ago seals went on master cylinder bought a kit from nissan about $50 from memory easy to replace so long as there isnt to much scoring or pits in the bore a bit cheaper than buying a new master cylinder easy to bleed no problems at all.
Good luck hope you get it sorted.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:16 PM
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You can also use a weed sprayer pressure back to back bleed the system. I use one on trucks and buses and have one in my toolbox at work.

All you do in cut off the spray nozzle and and fit a tap half way up the line. Works really well. Probley a over kill for one clutch bleed.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:59 PM
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Its seems to be a bit of a common topic... Thanks fellas for all the replies

But heres the latest

After changing the master cyl, i had it working again. Slightly higher than before but a good pedal feel just needing a rod adjustment. Anyhoo as i was driving home, the pedal got higher and higher to the point it would slip I pulled over and cracked the bleeder to relieve the pressure but then it happened again (went 5ks, bled it went another 5ks) At home i releived the pressure again and gave it another bleed,(maybe some aircame out, hard to tell) Travel 2ks around the block and it started to get high again??

Anyone explain that??
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Old 13-11-2008, 08:52 AM
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Ive been asking aroun and i heard to keep bleeding it and/or replace the booster.? Apparantly if there is a hole in the booster, it can somehow "ratchet" the pedal up hydralically?? I will disconnect the vac line and go for a run to see....
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  #12  
Old 13-11-2008, 10:22 AM
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i think because there is air in the lines and the fact that the lines are close to the exaust , the air heats up and expands

i would go to a brake place that has a reverse pressure bleeder , where they pump the fluid in from the lowest point , that being the slave cylinder
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Old 13-11-2008, 11:46 AM
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Yeah i think theres air still there too which i will bleed off after finding out some more info.

I went to clutch industries (perth factory) and mentioned it to him. He passed me a bulletin saying that the booster needs to be reset (pushrod) and states the specs. As clutches wear some people tray and adjust them up. When you replace the clutch, things sit in a slightly differnt spot. Long story short is that the fluid is not getting back to the reservior under driving conditions. When the new master went on i did notice that it was fighting against the piston as the nuts were tightened (for 5mm or so)

Im guessing that its that 5mm that is not letting the fluid back into the reservior.

Another mob told me it was a hole in the booster which sucks the pedal down.... Cant get my head around that one....

I will report back

Anyone interested in the bulletin, i can scan it and paste it up
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  #14  
Old 14-11-2008, 11:25 PM
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Hi there, my name is Srevni , I'm from Romania and I have a '93 Nissan Patrol 2.8td. I bother you with a similar problem. I changed the hydraulic clutch pump last week. The clutch pedal is quite strong, while the brake pedal can't press at all. I suspect it would be to blame the booster, whereas a long period of time brake fluid pass through in it. So, I want to know if there is a way to check the booster, after I'll take it off.



By the way, this is the thing that I call booster. Am I right???
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Old 15-11-2008, 12:21 PM
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here's a trick I used when bleeding clutches in European cars, mainly Peugeots.

Attach a suitable length of hose from the nearest brake bleed nipple to the slave cylinder nipple. Open both nipples and pump the brakes. This reverse bleeds the clutch circuit. Just keep transferring fluid from the clutch reservoir to the brake reservoir. I use a horse syringe for that purpose.
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Old 15-11-2008, 06:44 PM
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How many kms has the clutch itself done? If the hydraulics are all good it could be the pressure plate "centre fingers" losing tension with age, which would give bugger all engagement and disengagement travel and cause the symptons you are describing. A worn out clutch plate will make it slip too.
When the clutch gave up on my EA Falcon I couldnt get any gear at all because the pressure plate springs totally collapsed so it couldnt disengage at all. The clutch plate still had a reasonable amount of meat left on it too.

cheers, sudso
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Old 16-03-2011, 11:32 AM
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I like the brake line transfusion idea, might try that
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Old 16-03-2011, 06:41 PM
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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! i had this same problem less than 6 months ago! i got a new clutch and seing as master cyl and slave cyls had been leaking pre sale, theyd been changed less than 5000km ago. paid mechanic for clutch job. 3hrs later i had no pedal. took it back to mechanic and they wouldnt cover it. looked around and found a loose bleed valve spitting fluid every time i clutched. tried bleeding. tried EVERYONES nicks and nacks to bleeding. I SPENT A TOTAL OF $3200 TRYING TO SORT THIS PROBLEM ($2500 for clutch) i tried new master cly and new slave cyls. a day later i had a hard pedal and slipping clutch. loosen bleeder valve under bonnet and id be good for another little while. turned out to be push rod adjuster. the hole that sends/returns fluid is about 2 or 3mm across. HALF blocking that gives trouble...solution? take to brake and steering specialist, 4 hrs later, 2 bottles of fluid and some fine push rod adjustment, my troubles were over. he charged $80.....so if anyone is looking for a master and slave cyl, master and slave kits (condition: as new), or even a couple bottles of fluid (DOT3), then PM me. theyre sitting here doing nothing and id be happy to let them go cheap.
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Old 16-03-2011, 06:52 PM
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yes Srevni, that is a vacuum booster. if its out of the rig, then open it up. you will find a thin rubber sheet (diaphragm) separating the booster into 2 halves. if this is torn or cracked, then booster is a throwaway. alternately, if its still connected to the beast, disconnect the rubber hose that is the vacuum line and screw a bolt into it so that it is sealed. if the pedal is hard to push when line is blocked and easier to push when line is connected, then booster is working.
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