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Old 19-06-2008, 11:04 AM
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Post EGR Controler Valve - Should I replace???

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum.

3 weeks ago, my patrol's been serviced for 120K and also for the engine warning light.

According to report, everything is ok except EGR Controler Valve as they found ECU fault codes - 1003.

They said EGR Controler Valve was causing the ECU fault codes - 1003 keep displaying and that's why I had no power issue before (http://forum.patrol4x4wa.com/index.php?topic=1527.0)

Now, honestly, I don't feel they gave me a 100% answer to this problem as I could say that too cause I identified the fault code before myself (Thanks to forum).

So, I have to ask you guys, The Experts, for the 100% solution.

1. EGR Controler Valve

They quoted $605 for supply and fit.

I'm just thinking of blocking EGR and that means I don't realy need the valve replaced. I think....

Is that a good idea to fix this problem?

2. "Blocking EGR" - is it ok for D-Gas installation?

I want to install D-Gas on my truck and not sure it's going to work OK with blocked EGR.


Please advise me guys. Your help isalways appreciated!!!

Daniel
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Old 19-06-2008, 04:39 PM
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unfortunatly even with blocked off egr you still need a working egr valve. i do not know if anyone has made a replacement 'fake' version to replace it.

just check the valve itself wither its a circuit problem or its just stuck. if stuck you may be able to clean it out and get it working again.
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Old 19-06-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweak'e
unfortunatly even with blocked off egr you still need a working egr valve. i do not know if anyone has made a replacement 'fake' version to replace it.

just check the valve itself wither its a circuit problem or its just stuck. if stuck you may be able to clean it out and get it working again.
Thanks tweak'e.

I think you're right as now I blocked EGR but it still gives me the same error (Fault code - 1003).



I will check and try to clean it this weekend.

It does not always pop up but only when I shift gear to R or D straight after starting the engine (no waiting) even if the enging is hot. is it normal?

Daniel.
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Last edited by josfamily; 19-06-2008 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 19-06-2008, 11:01 PM
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Is your EGR electrical or vacuum controlled?

Do you have a MAF sensor on the intake?
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Old 19-06-2008, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uffe
Is your EGR electrical or vacuum controlled?

Do you have a MAF sensor on the intake?
Honestly, I don't know.

Can you tell me how and where to check it and why your are asking this???

Cheers. Daniel.
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Old 20-06-2008, 05:26 AM
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Vaccum controlled EGR valves have a vacuum line going to the valve. To open the EGR valve vacuum is applied. If it is vacuum controlled EGR, just remove the vacuum line and stuff a bolt up the vacuum hose going to the valve, that'll keep it shut. Put some strips around the hose to make a tight fit around the bolt. Don't let the vacuum hose suck air in, that's a very bad thing. Plug it tight and be happy.

If you have a MAF there is a possibility that the computer will not be tricked by the vacuum plug, because it senses the air intake speed. When the computer wants to open the EGR valve it expects the MAF signal to become lower (because you stuff the cylinders with exhaust gas there is not as much room for the intake air).

If you have a an electrical EGR valve there is no easy way to shut off the EGR valve. You need special a electric circuit to make the computer not open the EGR valve (I doubt a patrol would have such an electrical valve, because electric valves suck compared to vacuum (hey that's a paradox isn't it? )).

Pic of a vacuum operated EGR valve:

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Last edited by Uffe; 20-06-2008 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 20-06-2008, 07:02 AM
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josfamily.....going by your sig you have a ZD30 powered GU patrol. they have electrical EGR valve and MAF sensor.
they don't seam to record a fault when the EGR is blocked but the EGR valve has feedback cuiruts which tell the ECU if one of the circuits in the valve dosn't work.
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Old 20-06-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweak'e
josfamily.....going by your sig you have a ZD30 powered GU patrol. they have electrical EGR valve and MAF sensor.
they don't seam to record a fault when the EGR is blocked but the EGR valve has feedback cuiruts which tell the ECU if one of the circuits in the valve dosn't work.
Thanks uffe and tweak'e.

Following is the picture of my EGR and the top circled one is the EGR Valve to check for the bad ciecuit. Right??



Thanks. Daniel.
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Last edited by josfamily; 20-06-2008 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 20-06-2008, 01:50 PM
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yes thats the one. you can also block the egr off at the inllet manifold side, the pipe and connection at the top of the photo.
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Old 20-06-2008, 02:11 PM
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Hi Daniel,
When I took my trolt to berrima diesel they informed that you could get a fault code come up when you block your egr, apparently some don't like have it blocked. As suggested by tweak'e you can and probably should block it at the manifold. It will also allow you to see the amount of gunk that has entered into your engine. That in it self should convince anyone that the egr on a ZD30 is a bad thing.

Just my 2c worth.
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Old 20-06-2008, 03:16 PM
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correct, if you block egr you need to adjust turbo to suit otherwise turbo will close vanes to increase egr flow but due to it being blocked the turbo will be forced to spin faster making a lot more boost and increasing backpresure on the motor.

the gunk is partly egr but also oil from the breather. thats why a good filtering catch can is highly recommended.
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Old 20-06-2008, 06:28 PM
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On that pic if you want EGR to be closed, just remove the electrical connector on the solonoid

Surely the EGR valve would be default closed (when the vehicle is shut down). This I don't know, but I would suspect it.

EGR is a bad thing for any engine you want to run for as long as possible with as little maintenance as possible. EGR is good for emissions because it can reduce NOx. Usually engines will pass inspections without EGR connected anyway because their method of testing doesn't force the engine into its worst area of NOx production

If you want to remove the EGR electrically and not have an engine code, you need to figure out how to lure the engine into thinking the MAF signal becomes lower. Usually this is done using a relay/transistor to cut a resistor into the path of the MAF signal, effectively lowering it.

There's been some work done on www.lostkjs.com forums called the "SEGR" (solution to EGR). They supply a circuit which will fool the MAF based on EGR signal to the EGR valve.

What they do is snoop the EGR signal to the valve and use that as a driver signal to the MAF. The higher voltage for the EGR valve the lower voltage for the MAF signal. It's brilliant!

You will be able to run with no EGR and no engine codes if you can make such a solution for your own EGR valve. I think it does require some work and research into how the EGR valve is best tricked. I believe it requires a lot of measurements into both EGR and MAF signals before making a circuit.

This is the primary reason why I love vacuum operated EGR valves - plug the vacuum hose tight and EGR has gone away with no codes
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Old 20-06-2008, 06:42 PM
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if you remove the connector it will be in whatever state it was left in, that MAY not be fully closed.
removing the connector automatic records it as a fault due to the feedback circuit you just unplugged.

mucking around with MAF signal is very dangerous as it operates the fueling as well as turbo control. wrong signal, engine goes *BOOM*.
also if the valve doesn't move into the right position it will record a fault.

easiest way is to block it and adjust turbo to suit.

BTW plugging the vac hose on vacuum operated valve is not recommended. commonly the valves stick open and will stay open. best is to blank off the egr then it doesn't matter if the valve works or not.
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Old 20-06-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweak'e
BTW plugging the vac hose on vacuum operated valve is not recommended. commonly the valves stick open and will stay open. best is to blank off the egr then it doesn't matter if the valve works or not.
Sorry but my experience tells me otherwise. It is easy to determine if the valve is stuck open.

Vacuum operated EGR valves usually contain a spring which forces the valve shut if there is no vacuum supplied.

Engine idling would be VERY different if the EGR valve is open, so I see no problem in trying to plug the vacuum hose to the EGR valve, a simple "start engine and listen to it idle" test determines if the valve is defective and stuck open.

No matter what vacuum you then apply will not close it, and you need to replace it anyway
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Old 20-06-2008, 10:05 PM
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Daniel,

Your EGR valve is stepper motor controlled and has four internal windings. If one of these winding has gone open circuit or you unplug the motor or have a cable fault to the motor, you will get a DTC. Also, if the valve is stuck and can’t move, you’ll get the 1003 code which is the most common cause.

You need to check for voltage at the connector with the ignition on and for continuity of the windings. There is a test procedure for this that’s in the manual.

Also check fuse 49.

You can fool the ECU into thinking that it’s connected to a healthy valve, but it’s better to have a healthy valve. They can be cleaned if stuck and you may save a lot of money, but I would take tweak’s advice and block it at the inlet manifold to stop intake oil from getting down into the valve.

Diesel Gas works great on older low tech diesel engines and many of them don’t have EGR.
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Old 21-06-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uffe
Sorry but my experience tells me otherwise. It is easy to determine if the valve is stuck open.

Vacuum operated EGR valves usually contain a spring which forces the valve shut if there is no vacuum supplied.

Engine idling would be VERY different if the EGR valve is open, so I see no problem in trying to plug the vacuum hose to the EGR valve, a simple "start engine and listen to it idle" test determines if the valve is defective and stuck open.

No matter what vacuum you then apply will not close it, and you need to replace it anyway
sorry but that screams DODGY !

most of the time is just a bit of soot under them which keeps the valve from shuting fully making a small leak. granted if its seized wide open idle is effected but with small leaks its not all the noticable.

blocking vac line is okish but not recommeded. i've done it on some vechiles ony because its a nitemare to get to the egr valve.

if its faulty and your going to disable it anyway, why would anyone bother replaceing it ?? a bit of steel sheet and a few drill holes is a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot more reliable.
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Old 21-06-2008, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweak'e
if its faulty and your going to disable it anyway, why would anyone bother replaceing it ?? a bit of steel sheet and a few drill holes is a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot more reliable.
Agreed

Have you disassembled an EGR valve and looked at how the valve body moves inside it?
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Old 22-06-2008, 02:36 PM
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i havn't pulled the nissan ones apart. i have seen pics of the variable one apart, there is a web page on how to pull it apart and clean it.

i'm more used to the early toyota ones. if i remember correctly they are a valve similar to intake vavle but seal on the flat side. that way exhaust pressure keeps it closed. still quite prone to leaking still. commanly just block kit off at the engine inlet side.
as its not illegal to disable emmision control here, no one really bothers repairing them.
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Old 30-08-2008, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweak'e
correct, if you block egr you need to adjust turbo to suit otherwise turbo will close vanes to increase egr flow but due to it being blocked the turbo will be forced to spin faster making a lot more boost and increasing backpresure on the motor.

the gunk is partly egr but also oil from the breather. thats why a good filtering catch can is highly recommended.

Hi Tweak'e,

Two things I wanna ask.

1. To adjust turbo, should I take the car to a specialist, dealer or local mechanic?

2. Would you recommend a good oil catch can?

Thanks.

Daniel
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Old 30-08-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josfamily
Hi Tweak'e,

Two things I wanna ask.

1. To adjust turbo, should I take the car to a specialist, dealer or local mechanic?

2. Would you recommend a good oil catch can?

Thanks.

Daniel
plenty of info on here about both.
you can adjust turbo yourself, plenty of posts on it or take it to a mechanic who knows whats hes doing.

catch can, some people have been using a big compressed air filter with good success otherwise make your own or modify one of the many existing ones to suit. most off the shelf ones don't have any filtering inside it so you need to make some sot of filter to get filter out the oil from the gas.
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