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Old 15-12-2016, 10:41 AM
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Default Suspension upgrade for y62 Ti hbmc

Hi all, I was just speaking to Dan from Kpd 4x4 from Melbourne regarding options for upgrading / modifying the suspension.

Currently they don't have any solutions for this however he mentioned that the USA rep/techs for radflo will be at their shop in January 15-17 2017 and suggested that if anyone down in the Phillip island area of Victoria who owns a Ti and is able to spare a few hours and leave their car with them so that they can have a look the suspension.

Dan mentioned that if someone is kind enough to leave their car they can speak with the radflo guys while on site to determine if its possible to make up a solution for us.

Contact details are on their website.

Hoping someone local is able to assist as this will benefit all of us in the event they can fix something.

Cheers,
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Old 15-12-2016, 10:45 AM
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Hey mate - there is already a lift option available for HBMC suspended vehicles through another 4x4 specialist (not wanting to state competitors names in your thread).

There is always the option of removing the HBMS system entirely, retrofitting conventional dampers and springs, and fitting anti-roll bars as per the ST-L (if you didn't want the benefits that HBMC bring).

There isn't really anything black-magic in the HBMC system - its just a linked system of dampers that does away with the need for anti-roll bars.

Hope the info helps.
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Old 15-12-2016, 12:52 PM
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My only reason for looking at suspension upgrades will be due to adding the deluxe arb bar and sag it may have on front. Not sure if I need to do anything or just leave it as is.
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Old 15-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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Il name the only other mob.
Give ontrack 4x4 a call and talk to Andy. They made the kit.
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Old 15-12-2016, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinigo270 View Post
Hi all, I was just speaking to Dan from Kpd 4x4 from Melbourne regarding options for upgrading / modifying the suspension.

Currently they don't have any solutions for this however he mentioned that the USA rep/techs for radflo will be at their shop in January 15-17 2017 and suggested that if anyone down in the Phillip island area of Victoria who owns a Ti and is able to spare a few hours and leave their car with them so that they can have a look the suspension.

Dan mentioned that if someone is kind enough to leave their car they can speak with the radflo guys while on site to determine if its possible to make up a solution for us.

Contact details are on their website.

Hoping someone local is able to assist as this will benefit all of us in the event they can fix something.

Cheers,
interesting....but one has to wonder wtf, its not like the HMBC is new- the patrols have had them for probs over 3 years now.. and Andrew at on-track is the only one with a lift option for HMBC at present, which has been available for just over 1 yr ( i think).

the Major issue is that the Fronts are a strut and there is no current after market method to remove the front spring without disconnecting the HMBC hoses and since HMBC is pressurized it make that change mostly in the realm of Nissan dealers only atm.

which is not good and we are all waiting for the aftermarketers to get on it..but holly poop, they are taking their time..

the Patrol going into the USA as the Armada and the ceasing of the Y61 here are all helping getting after market into the game.
time will tell...
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Old 16-12-2016, 07:01 AM
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It's an interesting paradigm isn't it Kerry.

IMO the big thing underpinning all this is the theory (??) that HBMC must be retained for whatever reason. And it doesn't.

I kinda like the system - it provides a really good compromise between on-road ride and handing, and off-road ride, handing and axle articulation.

But could good results be obtained using conventional springs and dampers? Sure! You would have the inherent limitations of anti-roll bars to be included in the mix, but that isn't totally insurmountable.

When the US aftermarket gets on board, hopefully they will produce a cost-effective tool/equipment for working with the pressurised HBMC system - then we could get the best of everything After all - what would be PERFECT IMO is something like Andrew's lift kit, AND a well-specced replacement front spring.

If anything ever fails in my HBMC system, I will be replacing with conventional springs and dampers, and installing a set of anti-roll bars (a-la ST-L). I reckon it would be more cost-effective to do that, than to replace even a single pair of front HBMC struts.

Side-note - I wonder if Nissan Australia have a program for tool rental for their dealerships - allowing the dealers to rent expensive tools like the HBMC pressurising pump, instead of buying outright. If they do, surely there is a 'tame' Nissan dealer somewhere in this country that would be prepared to help with obtaining the tool via rental for a period, to assist thee after-market with their investigations into the HBMC system. Of course, there is every likelihood that I am being too generous in my assessment of Nissan dealers and Nissan Australia too
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Old 16-12-2016, 03:17 PM
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It would be great if a Nissan Dealer had to acquire one under a warranty claim then could hire it out as ants_oz suggested.
Then you would just need an aftermarket supplier brave enough to try and take it all apart and put it back together again.
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Old 18-12-2016, 07:46 AM
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[QUOTE=kerry_066;5642337]interesting....but one has to wonder wtf, its not like the HMBC is new- the patrols have had them for probs over 3 years now.. and Andrew at on-track is the only one with a lift option for HMBC at present, which has been available for just over 1 yr ( i think).

the Major issue is that the Fronts are a strut and there is no current after market method to remove the front spring without disconnecting the HMBC hoses and since HMBC is pressurized it make that change mostly in the realm of Nissan dealers only atm.

which is not good and we are all waiting for the aftermarketers to get on it..but holly poop, they are taking their time..

the Patrol going into the USA as the Armada and the ceasing of the Y61 here are all helping getting after market into the game.
time will tell...[Thats assuming there is a material conversion rate of ownership from current GU Patrol to the Y62, which is not a given.
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Old 18-12-2016, 02:17 PM
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Lol
If the yanks do it we will be able to get it, they have a slightly bigger market ya know. The yanks never got the gu but nothing really changed from the gq chassis wise so it wasn't a problem as everything suspension wise was basically done.

At any rate, personally for me it's not the end of the world if only a 2" lift is a available. There already a big unit.
You can get diff drop kits for em made up if you want extra height.
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Old 18-12-2016, 04:41 PM
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Why bother with an Armada when you have the choice of F150,250,350, Dodge Ram or Chev Silverado's at affordable prices, yeah baby!
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Old 18-12-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Natal Shark Y61 Fan View Post
Why bother with an Armada when you have the choice of F150,250,350, Dodge Ram or Chev Silverado's at affordable prices, yeah baby!
Yeah the yanks have it good over there
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Old 18-12-2016, 08:55 PM
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Wouldn't it be good if the dim wits at Nissan HQ in Aussie got off their arses and offered different springs from factory due to the STL being dropped and only offering people the HBMC option. Surely these dim wits know what Aussie patrol owners do with their rigs, just tick your spring option when you place your order. Hey but that would be too easy and giving their customers choice!
Sadly though that won't ever happen, with the Y62 it's as if it doesn't exist in Nissan's Aussie model line up. I have never seen it being advertised on TV it's as if they are ashamed of it. Pity really as it's an awesome vehicle.
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Old 19-12-2016, 06:37 AM
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Nissan don't even offer a basic alloy "frontal protection bar" for the Y62 in the options list.
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:14 AM
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Is there some magic about HBMC? Its hydraulics and one would expect some nitrogen charge for pressure.
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenA View Post
Is there some magic about HBMC? Its hydraulics and one would expect some nitrogen charge for pressure.
Hey Warren,

No magic - it's a pre-charged pressure system (totally unpowered) that simply cross-links relevant dampers in a system. The complexity appears to arise due to the proprietary system Nissan are using to pressurise the system. I've attached a couple of images of schematics etc. Plenty more info available if specifics are needed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg schematic.jpg (17.9 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg on-road.jpg (37.7 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg off-road.jpg (55.4 KB, 122 views)
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter Mc View Post
Wouldn't it be good if the dim wits at Nissan HQ in Aussie got off their arses and offered different springs from factory due to the STL being dropped and only offering people the HBMC option. Surely these dim wits know what Aussie patrol owners do with their rigs, just tick your spring option when you place your order. Hey but that would be too easy and giving their customers choice!
Sadly though that won't ever happen, with the Y62 it's as if it doesn't exist in Nissan's Aussie model line up. I have never seen it being advertised on TV it's as if they are ashamed of it. Pity really as it's an awesome vehicle.
Vast majority of manufacturers do not offer any spring options apart from adding aftermarket.

Majority of patrols will spend there time on hwys and doing school runs. Realistically there probably isn't a business case to offer anything.
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ants_oz View Post
No magic - it's a pre-charged pressure system
What's it charged with?

Nitrogen?
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:20 AM
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What's it charged with?

Nitrogen?
Yep.

My understanding though is that the system is pressurised hydraulically - pumping more fluid into the hydraulic accumulator. The nitrogen side of the system is essentially fixed volume (gas chambers in the dampers, and gas chambers in the accumulators
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by topdeck View Post
Vast majority of manufacturers do not offer any spring options apart from adding aftermarket.

Majority of patrols will spend there time on hwys and doing school runs. Realistically there probably isn't a business case to offer anything.
Vast majority of manufacturers in Aussie don't have HBMC. Manufacturers tailor vehicles to markets, Nissan Australia would have a pretty good idea of what their vehicles are asked of here. It wouldn't be too hard to offer a different spring option considering the proprietary tooling required to maintain the system. As for a business case just using the forum members I would say that a vast majority of them would of ticked a different spring option if available.
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Old 20-12-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mc View Post
Vast majority of manufacturers in Aussie don't have HBMC. Manufacturers tailor vehicles to markets, Nissan Australia would have a pretty good idea of what their vehicles are asked of here. It wouldn't be too hard to offer a different spring option considering the proprietary tooling required to maintain the system. As for a business case just using the forum members I would say that a vast majority of them would of ticked a different spring option if available.
Plenty of vehicles have proprietary fittings and systems that make modifications extremely difficult or impossible. It's not a unique Nissan/patrol issue.

Using forum members as an example isn't really accurate as almost by definition forum members are enthusiasts. Even so the numbers are so small.

I agree options are always great but from a business perspective I just don't think it would be worth their while.

Nissan understand the market and they probably know the vast majority of vehicles will never do any off-roading more than a rough dirt road. Vast majority will never be lifted.

Try lifting a land rover or Sahara land cruiser or Jeep grand cherokee. Similar issues.
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