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  #1  
Old 20-03-2017, 11:14 AM
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Default Conversion Options (Sheepdog98).

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Hi guys,


I finally sold my '04 TD42TI Patrol wagon after 9 years and just took delivery of a new 2016 Y61 3.0LT wagon. And from going from a 200rwkw pleasure to drive machine to a brand new major disappointment, after owning it for 5 weeks I am looking at an engine conversion. This Patrol is number 6 for me and have loved them all, but now I am left wondering what I have just done.

I looked at spending around $10,000 on the 3.0LT but still cannot guarantee reliability and longevity with it. I also am not convinced that I will be happy with the output result anyway.

So, I was looking at a custom built 6.5 Chev turbo intercooled diesel to maximise power and torque output but keep it all mechanical for simplicity and reliability issues. But I may have an issue with emissions. I would love a Duramax but can't justify $45-60,0000 dollars for a conversion. My other choice is a Chev petrol 6.2 LS3. But I am looking at a new crate 480hp (340KW) HSV engine which I will run the factory 5 speed manual box with. I did look at the 6.2 LSA supercharged version also but cannot run a water pump driven clutch fan for cooling and must run the low mount alternator. It also has more sensors and electronic controls for tuning. It all adds to reliability issues in the bush compared to the LS3 engine which have been beaten to death in many competition vehicles and more on road vehicles. They also return decent fuel figures too. Parts are very cheap and readily available too which is a plus. The LS3 also leads to a fair weight saving over the 3.0LT which helps once you add bar work, drawers, long range tanks, etc. As we know all our Patrols get too heavy.

So any thoughts or opinions on my two engines of choice would be greatly appreciated. I am looking at keeping this wagon for many years to come.

Thanks for your time,

Cheers Keith....


With regard to the emissions for a 6.5 Chev.

Yes you will, the last Patrol this motor can go into and still pass is a 2009 model.

I had a 6.5, was good for me, I really liked it despite all the boat anchor comments, beat the hell out of my previous TD42.

Sold it when I moved overseas.

Now have a 2009 Ti and originally was going to put an ADC duramax in it, but like everyone else knows ADC turned out to be the biggest bullchitting twat the world has ever known.

So I had a talk with Brunswick Diesels about a P400 6.5, Apparently my 2009 Ti was one month inside the cut off date (Sept date), Oct 2009 and you can not do it.

Ended up doing a Duramax anyway, just NOT ADC ...
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Old 21-03-2017, 08:05 AM
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Thanks DB, have changed the title to Conversion Options.
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Old 21-03-2017, 09:02 AM
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That's quite interesting about the MY2009 as the last to be able to be converted to 6.5.
Mines a late 2007 CRD and was my understanding that a 6.5 was not legal due to emissions.
However, I see that BD have a 2011 for sale with a 6.5, go figure.
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Old 21-03-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by poindexter View Post
That's quite interesting about the MY2009 as the last to be able to be converted to 6.5.
Mines a late 2007 CRD and was my understanding that a 6.5 was not legal due to emissions.
However, I see that BD have a 2011 for sale with a 6.5, go figure.
In WA The company who does the conversion ticks the emission test box. Easy as
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Old 21-03-2017, 03:22 PM
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In WA The company who does the conversion ticks the emission test box. Easy as
And that is it exactly.

They are their own engineers.

When I talked to them I was aware of this and the discussion went something like this.

We can put one in any Patrol or Land Cruiser and have it engineered for license in house. But if you were to be made to go over the pits at a later date you may have a problem.

From 07 to 09 the only legal conversion was the Optimiser or the P400. All previous engine models would fail emissions.

The Optimiser and the P400 will still pass if configured correctly until that time.

09 was the introduction of Euro 5 standard, maybe that had something to do with it, I don't know.
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Old 21-03-2017, 03:35 PM
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I actually have the ADR, but is too big to upload.
here is a summary:

Timetable for adoption of UN Regulation 83/.. standards in ADR79/..#:
Light Petrol and LPG Vehicles
Euro 2 adopted in ADR79/00 from 1/1/03 to 1/1/04 Euro 3 adopted in ADR79/01 from 1/1/05 to 1/1/06 Euro 4 adopted in ADR79/02 from 1/7/08 to 1/7/10 Euro 5 adopted in ADR79/03 (Core Euro 5)1 from 1/11/13 and ADR79/04 (Full Euro 5) from 1/11/16
Light Diesel Vehicles
Euro 2 adopted in ADR79/00 from 1/1/02 to 1/1/03 Euro 3 never formally adopted Euro 4 adopted in ADR79/012 from 1/1/06 to 1/1/07 Euro 5 adopted in ADR79/03 (Core Euro 5) from 1/11/13 and ADR79/04 (Full Euro 5) from 1/11/16
The Australian Government is currently considering the case for adopting Euro 6 through the Ministerial Forum on Vehicle Emissions. For further information, please visit https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/...rum/index.aspx.
# in each case, the first date applies to vehicle models first produced on or after that date, with all new vehicles required to comply by the second date.
1 The “core” Euro 5 requirements which apply in ADR79/03 require compliance with all the technical requirements of UN Regulation 83/06 except that ADR79/03:  allows the provision of PM mass emissions data based on the previous UN R83/05 (Annex 4) Type I test procedure (with a PM mass emissions limit of 0.005g/km) in lieu of data collected under the revised test procedure (Annex 4a of UN R83/06) which specifies a limit of 0.0045g/km);  accepts a relaxed OBD threshold limit (80mg/km) for PM mass for M and N category vehicles of reference mass >1760kg;  does not require compliance with the PM number limit specified for diesel vehicles in UN R83/06;  does not require compliance with the In Use Performance Ratio for OBD systems in UN R83/06;  does not require the NOx monitoring for petrol vehicles specified in UN R83/06; and  only requires flex fuel vehicles to meet the Type VI test when tested on petrol.
2 Euro 4 was first adopted for light diesel vehicles in ADR79/01, but was effectively replaced by ADR79/02 from 1/7/08.
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Old 18-05-2017, 10:42 PM
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Keith
My opinion would be the ls3, as parts are cheep and the engine are easy to modify to get good power out of them. I also belive they are better on fuel economy then the ls2?

I like the idea of keeping the manual gearbox.
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Old 19-05-2017, 05:43 PM
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Thanks for your input mate,

I have dropped the hammer and purchased the crate motor. It's the 480hp hot cam LS3. Using all Marks gear including the clutch fan set up and the twin plate Centreforce clutch. Should handle the power nicely. Can't wait to get it in now.

Really appreciated all the inputs for my project guys.

Cheers Keith...
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Old 19-05-2017, 11:19 PM
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How much for engine if a can ask
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Old 20-05-2017, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepdog98 View Post
Thanks for your input mate,

I have dropped the hammer and purchased the crate motor. It's the 480hp hot cam LS3. Using all Marks gear including the clutch fan set up and the twin plate Centreforce clutch. Should handle the power nicely. Can't wait to get it in now.

Really appreciated all the inputs for my project guys.

Cheers Keith...
Keith

Are you sticking with the original nissan gearbox?
Below are some recomendations to consider.

I can recomend a 4" S/S Patroldocta air box snorkel, I used this on my ls2 conversion and have plenty of power on tap.

What extractors are you thinking of getting? I would recomend you get them cermic coated before they get installed. I would also look at installing heat shield near the cross over for the exhust as it will run close to your gearbox the heat shield will help to avoid heatsoak when motor is idle.

Recomend to install a good after market high volume oil pump.

It would be good to hear how your project progress and see the final result.
I do belive you will have one sweet ride at the end of it.
Good luck mate.

Rich
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Old 20-05-2017, 06:45 PM
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Hey Sydo,

I got the GM crate engine for $10,400 from Eagle Auto. Not cheap but I figured do it up front rather than get used to it and then want to change the cam and valve springs down the track which would need a retune. It's got roller rockers and more goodies and it makes more power and torque earlier throughout the rev range over the standard 430hp LS3 engine. So in theory it should be really suited for the Patrol. I guess I will find out!!

Cheers Keith..
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  #12  
Old 20-05-2017, 07:04 PM
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Hey Rich,


Yes, I am sticking with the Patrol 5 speed. I am also using the new Centre force dual plate clutch that Marks 4wd are getting made in the USA. That's the one they use behind the LSA engine also. I know the auto would be better all round but I still like driving a manual. Especially off road, more challenging. Mates have autos with lock up and shift kits with compushift two computers and they are just too easy. Just point and shoot almost if you have good suspension, lockers and tyres. Also the other cars we have are all auto now, so it's nice to have a manual still.

I am going with a Radius Fabrications 4" snorkel and airbox set up. I am mates with Richie, and his work is simply brilliant. I am going to use Genie headers and I am getting them ceramic coated as you suggest, including the cross over pipe. Then run a 3.5" exhaust, I am told that Genie now make an off the shelf kit just for the Patrol also. I am curious about the heat shield that you used. Would you mind telling me where you purchased it, or was it a custom made set up?

As far as the oil pump goes, I believe it has the high volume one already fitted but I will definitely check, so thanks for the memory jogger. It all starts next month so I have to fit up my bar work, suspension, coil strengthening kit, tyres, snorkel, batteries, winch, etc before then as its only new. So a busy time ahead, but really looking forward to the end result.


Cheers Keith..
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Old 20-05-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by shepdog98 View Post
Hey Rich,


Yes, I am sticking with the Patrol 5 speed. I am also using the new Centre force dual plate clutch that Marks 4wd are getting made in the USA. That's the one they use behind the LSA engine also. I know the auto would be better all round but I still like driving a manual. Especially off road, more challenging. Mates have autos with lock up and shift kits with compushift two computers and they are just too easy. Just point and shoot almost if you have good suspension, lockers and tyres. Also the other cars we have are all auto now, so it's nice to have a manual still.

I am going with a Radius Fabrications 4" snorkel and airbox set up. I am mates with Richie, and his work is simply brilliant. I am going to use Genie headers and I am getting them ceramic coated as you suggest, including the cross over pipe. Then run a 3.5" exhaust, I am told that Genie now make an off the shelf kit just for the Patrol also. I am curious about the heat shield that you used. Would you mind telling me where you purchased it, or was it a custom made set up?

As far as the oil pump goes, I believe it has the high volume one already fitted but I will definitely check, so thanks for the memory jogger. It all starts next month so I have to fit up my bar work, suspension, coil strengthening kit, tyres, snorkel, batteries, winch, etc before then as its only new. So a busy time ahead, but really looking forward to the end result.


Cheers Keith..
Keith

I got it off eBay it was about $84.00, the heat sheald works great and was made for areas close to exhust systems. Not sure how to attach the link.
I also have used the nissnan 5 speed gearbox and so far I have had no problems with it

I am thinkink of an oil accumulator to be installed, I have been told the marks oil pan does not hold as much as the original pan. They are not that dificalt to set up and guaranteed oil pressure no mattern what angle your rig is facing.

Also you would need to look at the brakes as you will have to stomp on them to pull up. I am looking into greenstuff pads and sloted rotors.


If I can help with any information regarding my build then let me know and I am happy to help.

Rich
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Old 20-05-2017, 09:20 PM
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Hi Rich,


Thanks mate. Yeh I was thinking about which gearbox oil to run as they weren't really meant to rev to the LS3 speeds. Have heard you have to be a bit careful of gear changes at the higher rev range with the synchros. I will chase up some of that heat shield material too.

Would like to know more about the oil accumulator you refer to. I haven't heard of any issues of an LS3 having oil pressure problems.

As for the brakes, I have 8 new braided brake lines on the way and was looking at pads and rotors also. Have been thinking about 4.8lt front rotors and have even looked at Marks 4wd hydraulic brake booster set up too. Not convinced about that set up, but it must work well to stop a Duramax Patrol. So that needs more research also.

Thanks again for your input Rich, much appreciated.


Cheers Keith..
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Old 21-05-2017, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepdog98 View Post
Hi Rich,


Thanks mate. Yeh I was thinking about which gearbox oil to run as they weren't really meant to rev to the LS3 speeds. Have heard you have to be a bit careful of gear changes at the higher rev range with the synchros. I will chase up some of that heat shield material too.

Would like to know more about the oil accumulator you refer to. I haven't heard of any issues of an LS3 having oil pressure problems.

As for the brakes, I have 8 new braided brake lines on the way and was looking at pads and rotors also. Have been thinking about 4.8lt front rotors and have even looked at Marks 4wd hydraulic brake booster set up too. Not convinced about that set up, but it must work well to stop a Duramax Patrol. So that needs more research also.

Thanks again for your input Rich, much appreciated.


Cheers Keith..
I am not sure about installing braided lines on the frount breake as they dont flex as much as the rubber ones and tend to split. Rear breaded lines would be ok. One of my mates has the marks hydraulic brake booster set up and it work great. If you can get the 4.8 setup even better, I like to keep things simple, in the event of a break down in the middle of bush how are you going to repair it.

As far as the accumulator, as mentioned before, the marks oil pan does not hold as much oil as the standard ls pan, so I figerd instead of a oil cooler I would look at an accumulator, this way I have oil no matter if I am going up steep angles and gives me 2.8lt more oil. I have not noticed oil pressure drop when normal driving and when I am doing any steep angles I forget to look at my oil pressure guage.

My gearbox has held up well, as my engine is putting up 264kW at rear wheels with 33" mudies. I agree it is more challanging with a manual gearbox. I can drive in 3rd gear all day when off the black stuff, it has enough torque in low speed to go up steep hills with out going down a gear.

All the reserch you are doing now will give you the best setup and save you time and money. The above advice is my opinion oly and what I have found out by talking to pepole and doing my own reserch.

Good luck mate, if there is any help or information I can give you then please ask and I am more than happy to help you.

It sounds like one hell of a nice rig you are billding.

Rich
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Old 21-05-2017, 11:48 AM
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Twin 3" exhaust would be the go. Killa Kustoms has done one
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Old 22-05-2017, 09:07 AM
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i have used that heat shielding stuff on my firewall on my L98 swap, as far as i can see its done okay.

They have another product which isnt adhesive which would probably be nicer for stuff like protecting fuel/brake lines.

Sound Deadener - Car Builders - Sound Deadener Heat Insulation Car heat Shields

i also running a 3.5 inch exhaust on my bus and have put a cat and 2 mufflers to try and get it quiet enough to pass the test. i was suprised with the volume with only 1 cat and 1 muffler.
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Old 22-05-2017, 06:32 PM
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i have used that heat shielding stuff on my firewall on my L98 swap, as far as i can see its done okay.

They have another product which isnt adhesive which would probably be nicer for stuff like protecting fuel/brake lines.

Sound Deadener - Car Builders - Sound Deadener Heat Insulation Car heat Shields

i also running a 3.5 inch exhaust on my bus and have put a cat and 2 mufflers to try and get it quiet enough to pass the test. i was suprised with the volume with only 1 cat and 1 muffler.
SuperHoon

Did you get yours to pass the db test?
i had 3 goes to get it to pass.
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Old 22-05-2017, 07:21 PM
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What DB do you have to be under? I don't think they test in QLD.
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Old 22-05-2017, 08:18 PM
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What DB do you have to be under? I don't think they test in QLD.

I think it is 90db At 2meters away in Vic. I think you have to rev to 3000rpm then back off, then measurement is taken.


Rich
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