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Old 04-10-2017, 09:43 PM
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Default Silly question re: pyrometer thermocouple cables

Hi all,

Just part way through doing the gauges (VDO brand) on my CRD and just gone through the firewall as per @geeyoutoo instructions with the tape covered coat hanger. Worked a treat thanks for the tip mate

Apart from reasonably vague instructions, I'm looking at the supplied hardware for joining the thermocouple to the supplied twin core wire. It is "earth connection" type round terminals and m4ish cap heads about 1.5km long with a nylock. The amount of wire spare is huge, the "connectors" would look pretty hack even if I cut the bolts down as small as possible and used the supplied heat shrink.

I have read on this forum that the cables are a calibrated length for the pyro to read correctly. I am assuming that the whole affair works on resistance and if you change the length of the wire you change the reading. So assuming connections may make small difference too?

Now, my question is: Do you think there is any harm removing the ring terminals and soldering the thermocouple to the supplied cable? Would this have a meaningful effect on the reading in popular opinion?

The good news is if I can work out how to fit gauges anyone can haha.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:01 PM
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I used the supplied bolts to join my VDO extension cable. It’s coiled up and hidden under the dash anyway so I preferred to use their recommended method.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko_SJ View Post
Hi all,

Just part way through doing the gauges (VDO brand) on my CRD and just gone through the firewall as per @geeyoutoo instructions with the tape covered coat hanger. Worked a treat thanks for the tip mate

Apart from reasonably vague instructions, I'm looking at the supplied hardware for joining the thermocouple to the supplied twin core wire. It is "earth connection" type round terminals and m4ish cap heads about 1.5km long with a nylock. The amount of wire spare is huge, the "connectors" would look pretty hack even if I cut the bolts down as small as possible and used the supplied heat shrink.

I have read on this forum that the cables are a calibrated length for the pyro to read correctly. I am assuming that the whole affair works on resistance and if you change the length of the wire you change the reading. So assuming connections may make small difference too?

Now, my question is: Do you think there is any harm removing the ring terminals and soldering the thermocouple to the supplied cable? Would this have a meaningful effect on the reading in popular opinion?

The good news is if I can work out how to fit gauges anyone can haha.
Fitted same VDO pyro gauge a month back, do not cut off the ring terminal connectors. The probe wires are stainless steel and cannot be soldered if you wanted to. Just connect up with bolt/nut fasteners supplied and place the shrink tube over connector joints to prevent ingress of moisture.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFF45 View Post
I used the supplied bolts to join my VDO extension cable. Itís coiled up and hidden under the dash anyway so I preferred to use their recommended method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT54 View Post
Fitted same VDO pyro gauge a month back, do not cut off the ring terminal connectors. The probe wires are stainless steel and cannot be soldered if you wanted to. Just connect up with bolt/nut fasteners supplied and place the shrink tube over connector joints to prevent ingress of moisture.
OK good to know guys, appreciate those replies. Luckily I asked instead of just merrily hacking away.

It sounds like you guys (Or JFF45 at least) have the connections under the dash. There's plenty of the thermocouple side wire to reach that far so I can re-run it, except you'd have to pass either the terminals or the probe through the grommet. Is this what you guys did?

Else wise I'll have enough spare wire in the engine bay side to coil it once whilst connecting to the dump pipe.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:20 PM
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Left my ring terminal connector in eng bay in case need access, cut the other end of ext loom to length for attachment to gauge. Cleared this with the Gauge Shop Sydney-all good.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:38 PM
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I drilled a hole through the firewall on passenger side so have about 400mm of braided line in engine bay. I put a grommet in with RTV silicone.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko_SJ View Post
Hi all,

...

I have read on this forum that the cables are a calibrated length for the pyro to read correctly. I am assuming that the whole affair works on resistance and if you change the length of the wire you change the reading. So assuming connections may make small difference too?

...
That is the whole thing as you wrote correctly. If you want a longer or a shorter one somebody has to do it properly for you (e.g. Auber Ins. offers custom lengths for their thermocouples and gauges).
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:43 PM
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Thanks all, as stated appreciate the replies. Didnt get it finished tonight, as I had to help pull apart a YZ250 that did it's third gear a week back, but made good progress on the patrol after that.

My exhaust was second hand off my friend's GU and I didnt do as good a job with it as I should have initially. So whilst I reattached the dump after having the bung welded, I took the chance to replace all the hardware and gaskets, use sealant etc.

Should finish the job tomorrow. World's slowest install.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT54 View Post
Fitted same VDO pyro gauge a month back, do not cut off the ring terminal connectors. The probe wires are stainless steel and cannot be soldered if you wanted to. Just connect up with bolt/nut fasteners supplied and place the shrink tube over connector joints to prevent ingress of moisture.
youll find that the wires are not stailenss but a composition of nickel, aluminium and chromium plus a few other metals at very small percentages. It's the differences in the make up of the cable that give the differing mV output with temp change.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:30 PM
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youll find that the wires are not stailenss but a composition of nickel, aluminium and chromium plus a few other metals at very small percentages. It's the differences in the make up of the cable that give the differing mV output with temp change.
Thanks for the clarification, guess I should have checked out the advice as provided by the supplier.

But do understand though that the probe wire material is not suitable for lead solder jointing and that they are of a calibrated length for the material as supplied. Cheers
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:01 AM
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Results of the pyro are as below.

Seems like idle after warmed up sits at about 200-250C

Driving around town between 0-70 seems to net between 250-300C

Towing a trailer it was another 50C higher

I've always noticed my Patrol seems to be thirstier in O/D. Havent had the chance to watch EGTs at 100km/h yet, but at 80 EGTs in 3rd are 200c, if I use OD it will quickly climb to 400c.

Seem about right?
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:56 AM
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Your EGTs seem fine, for std or 3" high flow exhaust . Not sure of your exhaust, 3" will provide lower EGTs and boost level also influence EGTs more noticeable higher loads..

Have manual box, NADS (Berkley 3" exhaust and manual boost control). EGT pocking around similar temp yours, cruising/slight loads @ 100k/h 325-400 ish degC, loaded up doing long hauls say 500-600 DegC so far got to 680DegC but start thinking of backing off. Just did a drive up the mountains and performed manual boost adjust (Dawes/needle valve) and results are below (might be of interest):

Run up the mtns - o/a climb of say 600m over 150km run distance (some long hauls & no limp), getting max boost 17/17.5 psi at 100k/h (2500 rpm) and holding that boost level (as revs decreased) and where the speed did occasionally increase (long haul) the max boost went to 18psi @ 2800rpm (no limp). Cruise boost @ 100k/h (slight load) of 15-16psi. EGTs, cruise say 325-400 degC and on long haul solid work 600-680 odd deg C.

Do a google on CRD EGTs also.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:04 AM
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Thanks mate.

Mine's an auto. I do have a 3inch exhaust although the dump is slightly smaller (albeit MUCH bigger than original, has a highflow cat in it too)

No boost control or EGR block yet. Those are coming next pay. Nor do I have a schnorkel but that'll come after the EGR and boost control. I want to try and get a feel for how it acts with each mod. Even just the pyro has been very interesting.

Still have no boost line for the other gauge, so that is a very glaring omission in my pillar pod.
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Old 09-10-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballsy View Post
youll find that the wires are not stailenss but a composition of nickel, aluminium and chromium plus a few other metals at very small percentages. It's the differences in the make up of the cable that give the differing mV output with temp change.
This isn't quite right. The alloy used in the cable would offer thermal-resistive stability. ie it's resistance isn't affected by heat in the engine bay, unlike copper. Therefore more accurate reading from the thermocouple no matter the temperature of the cable in the engine bay/cabin. You can extend/shorten the cable, no problem, within reason. Auberins offer it by the foot. As mentioned, it cant be soldered. It needs crimping. The multistrand (7 core) wire is recommended for automotive application for its durability.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:05 PM
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Hmm next silly question now that I've had the gauges in for a bit. (PS, very interesting to watch the boost driving down a "flat", even more so actually flat road (EGR??).

My boost pressure gauge seems to be reading 1.5psi low. Driving me nuts comparing it to the scangauge reading 10.5ish and it's sitting a tad under 10 on the VDO's face.

It sits quite a bit below zero (about the amount it is out by, actually) when idling and not running. Is there a way to tweak the centre?
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:03 PM
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I have Auber Ins. digital gauge and it uses AD converter to convert analogue pressure to digits and I know I had to calibrate mine. Straight after fitting the gauge was showing 0.5-0.7PSI, adjusted this acc. to manual. Don't know if analogue gauges have same the feature or similar that allows calibration or adjustment. Nothing useful in the VDO manual?
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Old 03-11-2017, 08:22 PM
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Yeah, just heard the scan gauges themselves can be inaccurate too so dont really know which to trust.

Wanted an accurate reading to help play with the Dawes I just ordered. hmm.
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Old 21-11-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
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Is there a way to tweak the centre?
Just a follow up. There is. I wouldn't recommend it, gauge no longer zeros quickly but seems to be close to dead on with the scan gauge past 2PSI, so it'll do for now.

Another dumb question:

Dawes people, when I do my Dawes setup (with in cab needle) is it OK to terminate the needle valve air intake/vacuum bleed (with a small filter) in the cab. This would provide clean air...

This would avoid having to use the resonator box and run an "air in" line through the cab, only needle valve "air out".

Does that make sense? Cheers.
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Old 22-11-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko_SJ View Post
Just a follow up. There is. I wouldn't recommend it, gauge no longer zeros quickly but seems to be close to dead on with the scan gauge past 2PSI, so it'll do for now.

Another dumb question:

Dawes people, when I do my Dawes setup (with in cab needle) is it OK to terminate the needle valve air intake/vacuum bleed (with a small filter) in the cab. This would provide clean air...

This would avoid having to use the resonator box and run an "air in" line through the cab, only needle valve "air out".

Does that make sense? Cheers.
I've been doing it for years without issue, from memory I was the first to do it, it is written up in my build thread somewhere with the type of filter I used, link in sig. There is a schematic in post 8 on what I did and what I used.
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Old 22-11-2017, 03:51 PM
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$7 lawn mower fuel filter from supercheap works sweet.


ZD30 rules the road.
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