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Old 26-03-2019, 09:36 PM
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Hi, when I got my patrol it had some rectangular IPF driving lights (I think they are ARB ones).

I'm thinking of upgrading to 9inch XTM LED ones.

Wondering if I can just use the current wiring that's already there? Essentially cut the wires and connect the new ones? Or do I need to change anything else like fuses or relays?

Ta, Michael
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Old 26-03-2019, 09:43 PM
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Not if the existing set up was done right in the first place. All will be good. Just make sure it has been fused properly has good relays and wiring. If you're changing something it's the best time to check the whole circuit.
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Old 27-03-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by festerGU View Post
Not if the existing set up was done right in the first place. All will be good. Just make sure it has been fused properly has good relays and wiring. If you're changing something it's the best time to check the whole circuit.
Cheers thanks
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Old 27-03-2019, 07:06 PM
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Do you know what wattage the IPF lights are? Assuming they are 100 watts each then they will draw just under 17 amps as a pair. So mostly you would see about 20 amp rated cable for that kind of installation as a minimum.

Those 9" XTM appear to be rated at 185 watts each, so they will draw 30 amps as a pair. Rather a big difference.
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Old 27-03-2019, 08:21 PM
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Do you know what wattage the IPF lights are? Assuming they are 100 watts each then they will draw just under 17 amps as a pair. So mostly you would see about 20 amp rated cable for that kind of installation as a minimum.

Those 9" XTM appear to be rated at 185 watts each, so they will draw 30 amps as a pair. Rather a big difference.
I think it may be as a pair as the box states 10A @12V. But good to know as the cables to the IPF's is not very thick at all.

https://youtu.be/BaFhriy2kcM
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Old 28-03-2019, 08:32 PM
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Old mate in your video says they are 185 watts. That is not 10amps at 12v. So that does not add up. My understanding is that they are 185watts, as each LED is 5 watts.

P=V x I is the calculation you use to work out what amperage they will draw. P is the power in Watts, V is the voltage being 12v. I is your amperage.

Some things get rated at 14v, but I would never use that for your calculations, as our electrical system does not produce 14v constantly. But even if you use 14v it is not right. It would pay to check this properly. Find out the power usage of each LED and count how many in each light. So if there are 37, 5 watt LED's that is 185 watts.
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Old 28-03-2019, 09:29 PM
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There seems to be a secret convention here for speccing LED spot lighting. Supercentre list their 32x5 watt lights with an 8.3 amp draw which doesn't add up at either 12 or 14.4 volts. So either they are being adventurous with their wattage claims or telling porkies. Or these LEDs have some hidden efficiencies we don't know about.
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Old 29-03-2019, 03:58 PM
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Hmmmm... It all sounds a little suspect, like the length of the fish I caught!

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Old 29-03-2019, 08:51 PM
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Yes, sounds dodgy. Just doesn't add up. The last thing you need is wiring that is only just adequate.

But, there is an absolute in my opinion. A 5 watt LED will use 5 watts of power. So use the calculation above, and then have wiring to suit that current drain. Bigger is better, as you suffer less voltage drop.
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Old 29-03-2019, 09:44 PM
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I have read something about LEDs and how they are measured. That 185w total or 5w is only for a short period. Unless paying proper money. The cheap controllers, which there will be a heap in there. Lose there capacity once they warm up. So each of those 5w LEDs end up being closer to 3w.

Also it used to be that 1 controller ran 3 LEDs. I bet if you open up most of the ebay specials you will find more than 3 LEDs attached to each controller.
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Old 29-03-2019, 11:41 PM
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If you have a multimeter check what amps each light draws or even better do you have an amp clamp ?


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Old 03-04-2019, 04:12 PM
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Some sellers, as in this case, quote the total light output or wattage per kit. i.e. 18,000 lumens per kit, or 185 Watts per kit.



According to the box, each light produces in the order of 9000 lumens. Working on a rough rule of thumb that LEDs emit approx 100 lumens per Watt, they'll draw about 90 Watts each.


To all those who know about efficacy and LED, yes I realise it gets more complex, but no use going into the complexities here.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:31 PM
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Ok
I have the Kingís 9 inch LED Osram driving lights and they draw 22 amps
22,970 lumens per pair
40 x 4 watt OSRAM each.
They claim 9.58 amp @14.4v each light but with my amp meter it showed 22 coming from the battery


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Old 03-04-2019, 07:40 PM
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Wow, that's a big power draw! But at 22,000 lumens that's bright!

I wonder if we could equate 1,000 lumens to approx 1amp draw

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Old 03-04-2019, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skivvia View Post
Some sellers, as in this case, quote the total light output or wattage per kit. i.e. 18,000 lumens per kit, or 185 Watts per kit.



According to the box, each light produces in the order of 9000 lumens. Working on a rough rule of thumb that LEDs emit approx 100 lumens per Watt, they'll draw about 90 Watts each.


To all those who know about efficacy and LED, yes I realise it gets more complex, but no use going into the complexities here.
I think it is a mistake to look at light output in this instance. The watts rating of the light has nothing to do with output - it is a measure of power consumption.

How many lumens a light puts out can be varied by a number of factors, efficiency, reflector quality, reflector size etc. A 5 watt LED uses 5 watts of power. I think it is that simple when calculating what wiring is needed.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
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Wow, that's a big power draw! But at 22,000 lumens that's bright!

I wonder if we could equate 1,000 lumens to approx 1amp draw

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Sometimes they are too bright. Makes the low beam seem non existent. First time I used them I had to check the switch to make sure I hadnít turned off the light by accident


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Old 03-04-2019, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQshayne View Post
I think it is a mistake to look at light output in this instance. The watts rating of the light has nothing to do with output - it is a measure of power consumption.



How many lumens a light puts out can be varied by a number of factors, efficiency, reflector quality, reflector size etc. A 5 watt LED uses 5 watts of power. I think it is that simple when calculating what wiring is needed.


My lights came with a wiring kit that only used 4 mm wire


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Old 04-04-2019, 07:56 PM
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My old IPF loom hasn't liked me installing the Supercenter/Kings 9" LED's. It's melted a fuse holder and now blows fuses.
It's either overloaded or just too old now after 10-15years (potentially 20, I'm not sure of it's history). It's a project for my next holidays.
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:01 PM
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My lights came with a wiring kit that only used 4 mm wire


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Yes, but they are a budget product. I wonder if the same lights were supplied by Narva what they would supply.
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, but they are a budget product. I wonder if the same lights were supplied by Narva what they would supply.


4 mm wire is rated to 25 amps so itís just acceptable although it does get slightly warm.
One day I might change the wire from the battery to the relay up to 6 mm, but 4mm to each light is acceptable.


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