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estcove 15-08-2013 02:17 PM

0 We've done so much with so little for so long we're qualified to do anything with 0
 
Not long now. Labor is slipping in the polls and the Bookies already have them down the dunny.

My personal polling confirms the trend. From the shop girl who complained: 'They are trying to tax my savings' to the old bloke in the pub: 'The place has been stuffed for the last six years, time for a change.' These views are representative of most of the people I talk to. Mind you, I am aware that the Coalition could run a dead fish up here and it would still get in.

They say a week is a long time in politics but I see no hope for Labor. They are on the back foot and are only responding to what the Coalition is saying. Rudd seems insecure and worried, some recent pix say it all.

Anyhow, I am predicting a Coalition victory, and not just a little one, I think it will be a landslide win.

The feeling here is that the voters have made up their minds. It is very similar to the mood before the last State Election where the Labor party was slaughtered.

toughnut 15-08-2013 02:40 PM

This is like counting down to xmas. At least I guess its a break from counting down to xmas. You watch. less than a week after the election all the counting down to xmas adds will start. ;)

ManBoy 15-08-2013 02:43 PM

The ALP did a deal with the devil, aka "the Greens", to seize power. Power at all costs and for that they can not be forgiven. I hope they spend a very long time in the political wilderness for what they have done since 2007.

Ray! 15-08-2013 02:50 PM

You'd think they would learn:

Quote:

Several senior Labor officials are now privately demanding the Prime Minister follow Tony Abbott’s lead and put the fringe-left party last on the Labor how-to-vote cards …

“What have the Greens given us apart from electoral Armageddon,” said one senior Labor MP.

“If we do any dirty deals with them we might as well give ourselves Ebola as well. And Kevin should be taking the lead on this.”
No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

You could almost say: 'A vote for Labor is a vote for the Greens'.

Short Y60 15-08-2013 02:54 PM

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The scary thing is that they would have had a real chance had the election been called immediately after Kev returned...

“If we do any dirty deals with them we might as well give ourselves Ebola as well. And Kevin should be taking the lead on this.”
Lol, they still can, I doubt anyone will be running to stop them.

toughnut 15-08-2013 02:55 PM

Its all OK though Katy Perry has weighed in on our election. lol

Quote:

Pop Singer Katy Perry has told Opposition Leader Tony Abbott she wouldn't vote for him because of his stance on gay marriage.
WTF is she even involved with our country's decisions on government?:rolleyes:

Short Y60 15-08-2013 03:00 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by toughnut (Post 1155627)
Its all OK though Katy Perry has weighed in on our election. lol



WTF is she even involved with our country's decisions on government?:rolleyes:

No but she has influence on the mindless drones that do actually vote in this country... So yes actually, she is. She also has influence on my member, but he can't vote.

ManBoy 15-08-2013 03:08 PM

I have noticed all the Steven Jones billboards for the ALP going up around my place. I am trying really hard to resist the urge to modify them with the slogan "Steven Jones, tackling the big issues like gay marriage"... makes me so proud to have him as our local member.

The region has the highest unemployment rate in the country and is 3 times the national average and all this DH wants to spruik about is gay marriage. He should be a member of the Greens, that is if he isn't already a greens agent in a red shirt.

Ray! 15-08-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

KEVIN Rudd's support for gay marriage is annoying tradies in the outer suburbs, with the issue more likely to play badly in areas with higher unemployment, a social researcher says.

"It symbolises all that they don't like about the government - that is, distracted into symbolism and not governing on the issues that make a difference to them," he said.

Australia's 33,714 same sex couples made up just 0.7 per cent of people in relationships in the 2011 Census.
No Cookies | Herald Sun

toughnut 15-08-2013 03:20 PM

Thats just the point of politics now Ray. Or at least Labor have turned it into a country ruled by minorities. They are trying to be popular instead of running the country. If the country is run correctly then popularity will follow.

This was clearly shown with the Liberals in power last time. Their only downfall was that Little Johnny didn't step aside at the appropriate time. Otherwise they'd probably still be in power. Aussie pride was at an all time high as was employment and our reserve bank. All of these things and much more have taken a dive since then because of Labor and their bending over backwards to try and please all the crappy minorities.

bigbluemav 15-08-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughnut (Post 1155645)
Thats just the point of politics now Ray. Or at least Labor have turned it into a country ruled by minorities. They are trying to be popular instead of running the country. If the country is run correctly then popularity will follow.

This was clearly shown with the Liberals in power last time. Their only downfall was that Little Johnny didn't step aside at the appropriate time. Otherwise they'd probably still be in power. Aussie pride was at an all time high as was employment and our reserve bank. All of these things and much more have taken a dive since then because of Labor and their bending over backwards to try and please all the crappy minorities.

I think it's got more to do with a larger number of people thinking that gay people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Gay people will always be a minority. Hopefully people that think discrimination is acceptable won't be the majority forever.

bigbluemav 15-08-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray! (Post 1155642)

Pretty much the same as the popular resistance that Keating experienced to Native Title.

LEADING people to what is best for the nation; in this case, the cessation of discrimination against people based on sexual preference.

toughnut 15-08-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluemav (Post 1155648)
I think it's got more to do with a larger number of people thinking that gay people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Gay people will always be a minority. Hopefully people that think discrimination is acceptable won't be the majority forever.

Thats not the case. Yes I agree that things like equality should be fought for. But not at the total expense of the greater good. I.E. Tackling unemployment. They are making a big issue out of this but they are not addressing other long term issues that affect the wider public. They are only choosing issues that will get them media attention. Don't mistake it for trying to help a minority. Its completely self serving to try and get media attention for votes. plain and simple.

ManBoy 15-08-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluemav (Post 1155648)
I think it's got more to do with a larger number of people thinking that gay people deserve the same rights as the rest of us. Gay people will always be a minority. Hopefully people that think discrimination is acceptable won't be the majority forever.

Its just another distraction just like the boat people. We don't really have to hear so much about what are really minor issues in the scheme of things. Sure marriage equality may need to be addressed and opinions on the matter aren't for this particular argument but it is really seen amongst the community to be a really unimportant issue when people are losing their jobs and houses.

Its kind of like an ambo telling you that you have a cut on your nose from a car accident and he's going to fix it whilst ingnoring the fact you've also been impaled on the steering column. Lets get the big issues sorted first, than we can appease the minorities.

Short Y60 15-08-2013 03:36 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ManBoy (Post 1155653)
Its just another distraction just like the boat people. We don't really have to hear so much about what are really minor issues in the scheme of things. Sure marriage equality may need to be addressed and opinions on the matter aren't for this particular argument but it is really seen amongst the community to be a really unimportant issue when people are losing their jobs and houses.

Its kind of like an ambo telling you that you have a cut on your nose from a car accident and he's going to fix it whilst ingnoring the fact you've also been impaled on the steering column. Lets get the big issues sorted first, than we can appease the minorities.

I can't find an exact quote in text but TA has said this exact same thing several times.

Squalo 15-08-2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManBoy (Post 1155653)
Lets get the big issues sorted first, than we can appease the minorities.

Any reasons why we can't be working on all the problematic areas at once?

And how do we define the big issues? Numbers? Numbers work for me. Numbers are how I earn a living. Statistics.

So let's see what the numbers indicate. I'm not going to post the numbers, they are easy to find for anyone who's actually serious about contributing to the debate in this topic. But I'll show you what the outcome of reviewing the numbers gives us.

And If you find better numbers than I have, that support your position, I'll happily concede the point.

OK, that out of the way, lets go. I'll start at the top of the bogan/bigot list - gays and boat people. Which is more important, especially to a political party who assure us they have the correct vision to return Australia to financial prosperity?


1. There's more gay people seeking marriage rights than there are asylum seekers arriving by boat.


2. The gays in question are actually tax-paying citizen of Australia. So they are actually contributing to the bottom line.

3. Asylum seekers actually cost us between $220k and $400k per year while in detention, with no positive contribution at any level - socially, financially etc.

So, given the above (and the figures are out there, I never say anything I can't back up), the questions...

Q. Rather than just make a conscience vote to sort the former out, we're spending how much on Stop The Boats?

Hint. One of the above option is measured in six figures, annually - the other is basically a one-off cost.


Q. Stop The Boats is more important than Gay Marriage
?

Really... please, fill me in on that one, because I just can't make those sums work. I'm clearly missing something. And I work with numbers and statistics for a living... maybe I'm in the wrong job.

Remember, we're attempting to determine the difference between the big issues and the crap... or, to put it another way, what the majority wants vs. what a minority group wants. And what value there is in either alternative for the working families of Australia.

Go to it.

Short Y60 15-08-2013 04:35 PM

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Not sure which way you are trying to argue this Squalo; Using your numbers I would consider that stopping the boats is more important from a financial perspective, unless each gay person is (or even each gay couple) are contributing 220k to 440k per annum to the economy.

So I would imagine the majority would deem the boat people and bigger issue than gay marriage as it costs us more and has a detrimental affect on the economy and voter confidence whereas gay marriage will cost bugger all and make no difference to anything.

I don't personally care at all about gay marriage, they can do whatever they want, I don't really care for straight marriage either, the idea of it and its supposed importance in our lives bewilders me.

EDIT: and the reason why we can't tackle big issues and minor issues like gay marriage at the same time is non existent.

Ray! 15-08-2013 04:36 PM

I'm not clear as to what you are seeking. The gay marriage issue is inconsequential in terms of financial cost, but is an issue of social cost (beliefs etc). The boat people issue is of great consequence in terms of financial cost, as well as social cost (integration etc).

As Tony Abbott said in a recent interview, he's not suggesting that gay marriage will never happen, but like with the Republic debate, it was a hot issue but never eventuated, yet it too may happen one day. But there are more important things to address right now.

ManBoy 15-08-2013 04:57 PM

Squalo I'm not sure why you are comparing gay marriage and boat people, my statement was that both are really insignificant issues when you look at the overall issues affecting Australia as a whole. I know they are significant to those individuals and I don't dispute that, I think the way this country has handled the boat people issue to be pretty poor.

My original statement was made about my local ALP member Steven Jones who has been one of the most prominant advocates for gay marriage. My point is that he is representing an electorate with the highest unemployment in Australia and he puts all his efforts into supporting a minority.

If you want numbers they are this:

Unemployment in the Illawarra region that includes Mr Jones electorate of Throsby - 15.3%. The national average is 5.5%

Illawarra's unemployment rate jumps to three times national average - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ray's post contained a link to data from the 2011 census that showed that 0.7% of the whole Australian population were living in a same sex marriage. I don't have the figures for Throsby and I really can't be arsed trying to find them but I would assume it would be fairly well below 0.7%

My point is that over 15% of the population are unemployed and our local member is being most vocal about an issue that affects less than 1%, its all just smoke and mirrors BS.

Short Y60 15-08-2013 05:01 PM

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Except in the minds of the deluded the issue of gay marriage affects affects more than 1%, apparently it affects everyone because it such a serious thing-a-majig and we'll all be going to hell because of it etc etc; problem being, there is much delusion among the masses.


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