Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum banner

221 - 240 of 604 Posts

·
Registered
Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
@RAGGQ Thanks for info. I found when running a Tillix or Dawes +1 needle downstream with a spool needle, is that when adjustment is done to downstream needle (boost change) there was a need to readjust spool needle to maintain the desired lever position relative to stop.

I have just reinstalled the manual boost controller + 2 needles for trial, and may give 2 needles a go but think for me, best to have vanes at the closed limit for an initial period (eg: 5psi set point), it is a juggle so not to get adverse boost behavior from excessive pressure build up (a larger exhaust wheel). Beat me Phil.
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
Hi @RAGGQ
if you left your original setting for the spool-up needle, adding the second needle did add some positive flow at idle. This opened your vanes a bit more than what you could have. Therefore it reduced your original spool-up.
You could try closing a bit your spool-up needle to recover your original spool-up, and open very slightly your second needle.
I have tried that @Phdv61 but I found that the best setting for my spool needle pretty much ended up where I started. I will keep trying different settings on both valves though as I find it very interesting how different settings can make a huge difference
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
@RAGGQ Thanks for info. I found when running a Tillix or Dawes +1 needle downstream with a spool needle, is that when adjustment is done to downstream needle (boost change) there was a need to readjust spool needle to maintain the desired lever position relative to stop.

I have just reinstalled the manual boost controller + 2 needles for trial, and may give 2 needles a go but think for me, best to have vanes at the closed limit for an initial period (eg: 5psi set point), it is a juggle so not to get adverse boost behavior from excessive pressure build up (a larger exhaust wheel). Beat me Phil.
No worries mate if that’s working for you and your happy with it, keep it. There’s more than one way to skin a cat with these rigs
 

·
Registered
NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
Joined
·
878 Posts
Discussion Starter #224
Hi John,
since your Patrol configuration is rather different than other's, and since you now know in details the effect of each element ( + you can acquire, process, and display sensors data at your will), you are the best one to know what to do for your Patrol, and what to expect from your different settings.
 

·
Registered
NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
Joined
·
878 Posts
Discussion Starter #225
Having a larger exhaust (3") creates less back pressure and makes the ehaust turbo wheel spins faster.
You must reduce the spool-up, and open the vanes a bit more widely than what the ECU does originally.
If the 'EGR effect' has been supressed by your REMAP, making use of the ECU management of the VACSOL, and complementing it with Valves to create that additional opening ( spool-up, and thereafter), is almost certainly the best way to go in your particular case John.

Best of the best would be to adapt an electronic and its software to your Patrol configuration, as I did for mine.
If I have the time, I will develop a final version of my electronics to have a fully "customizable" VNT map with associated software tools. Many friends are pushing me in that direction. But it is a hell of a job.

I'd like first to control the IP too, so that a REMAP is no longer necessary, and fuel 'maps' can be easily downloaded too.
 

·
Registered
Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Having a larger exhaust (3") creates less back pressure and makes the ehaust turbo wheel spins faster.
You must reduce the spool-up, and open the vanes a bit more widely than what the ECU does originally.
If the 'EGR effect' has been supressed by your REMAP, making use of the ECU management of the VACSOL, and complementing it with Valves to create that additional opening ( spool-up, and thereafter), is almost certainly the best way to go in your particular case John.

Best of the best would be to adapt an electronic and its software to your Patrol configuration, as I did for mine.
If I have the time, I will develop a final version of my electronics to have a fully "customizable" VNT map with associated software tools. Many friends are pushing me in that direction. But it is a hell of a job.

I'd like first to control the IP too, so that a REMAP is no longer necessary, and fuel 'maps' can be easily downloaded too.
Running the Tillix +1needle (downstream) in conjunction with the VacSol provides me now with a very similar MAF trace as what was being achieved running only VacSol. Can increase length of actuator rod (currently @ 14"Hg) to reduce time of vane closure duration but will leave until completion of Tillix + 2 needle trial (prefer to leave vane limit stop grub screw alone).
As per graph result you have seen, have found that running VacSol (only), provides best MAF/RPM result but boosting to 30+ psi and cruises @ 15-17 psi (50% eng load) and 30psi+ is a bit up for my comfort level (great driveabilty).
Run similar high cruise boost (15-17 psi) when using Tillix/Dawes with VacSol (with or without needle downstream of boost limiter).
EGTs all fine..... I prefer the Tillix because the barrel thread form clearance provides a (leak) positive air flow into vac side without taking it from the boost side of controller.

Have started trialing the Tillix + bleed needle with spool needle(2 needle valves), had it going well (cruise 12psi, no MAP blips with good run), thought I would stop tighten up the spool needle lock grub screw and in the process (unknowingly) kinked the vac hose, did further needle adjustment to compensate and then noticed kink_start again. Note here for any new readers small incremental adjustment has big impact on result.

Electronic control would appeal.
 

·
Registered
2002 Nissan Patrol Y61 LWB Auto ZD30 Di
Joined
·
82 Posts
Hi All, i removed the Tillix valve for a test drive with the 2 needles only and could not get it right at all. Too much boost and too high EGT's. Granted, it was a hot day at 32 deg C, but i was either hitting 20 psi or not making boost at all. I fiddled with it for about an hour and a half (around town and highway) and now i am back to the Tillix+2 trying to get it back to what is was.
 

·
Registered
NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
Joined
·
878 Posts
Discussion Starter #228 (Edited)
You must have done the setting wrong.

If you open fully the second needle, you will get no boost as the vanes will open fullly very quickly.

reminder : setup procedure.
1/ You have to close the second needle fully initially ( the one connected between your boost line and your actuator hose).
2/ You set-up your spool-up needle in such a way that the lever is just on the limiting screw.

3/ you start opening the second needle until you SEE the lever getting off the limiting screw.
4/ you close the needle a bit until the lever touches the limiting screw.

5/ you start drivning carefully, controlling boost.

6/ if boost gets too high too quickly, you open the second needle.... and you set again the spool-up needle to get the lever just touching the limiting screw. and so on.

7/ if at some point in time boost is not building as it should ( not enough boost), you close a bit the second needle, and adjust the spool-up, to have always the lever just touching the limiting screw.

8/ When you are closed to the "sweet tune", you can adjust slightly the spool-up and the second needle to get more precisely what you wish to have.

Many got this to work, so you need to revisit what you do/ or have done.
Make sure you have two NEEDLE valves in good operating condition. Remember, there is no need to have a very high boost to get plenty of air into the cylinders... just the right vanes opening maximizing the airflow, and keeping back-pressure low.

This arrangement is to some extent equivalent to a turbosmart actuator which would have an adjustable spring to your Patrol configuration.
 

·
Registered
2002 Nissan Patrol Y61 LWB Auto ZD30 Di
Joined
·
82 Posts
Hi Rag, unfortunately not, i cracked a caster bush last week and also busy with changing the gauges (which turned out to be of the funny chinese variety) so this got sidetracked.
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
Hi Rag, unfortunately not, i cracked a caster bush last week and also busy with changing the gauges (which turned out to be of the funny chinese variety) so this got sidetracked.
No worries mate there’s always next weekend. Sounds like you’ve got bigger problems right now
 

·
Registered
Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
So are you guys trying this without any Dawes or other valve device, just the two needle valves as flow control?
Just the two needle valves, no Tillix/Dawes and the:
second needle
referred is the boost controller if you can call it that.

Have been trialing this 2 needle arrangement for past week.

For all casual readers, you need to monitor your EGTs closely with this setup, I have seen 650 deg C when running at low max boost levels hauling. Getting on top it now, just be aware of what is going on.
 

·
Premium Member
2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
Joined
·
25,637 Posts
Just the two needle valves, no Tillix/Dawes and the:

referred is the boost controller if you can call it that.

Have been trialing this 2 needle arrangement for past week.

For all casual readers, you need to monitor your EGTs closely with this setup, I have seen 650 deg C when running at low max boost levels hauling. Getting on top it now, just be aware of what is going on.
Yet the OP recons there is no need to monitor them... luckily you guys have more sense than that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
Just the two needle valves, no Tillix/Dawes and the:

referred is the boost controller if you can call it that.

Have been trialing this 2 needle arrangement for past week.

For all casual readers, you need to monitor your EGTs closely with this setup, I have seen 650 deg C when running at low max boost levels hauling. Getting on top it now, just be aware of what is going on.
G’day @Bidja I found its all trial and error but once you get it right it works well. The highest temp I’ve seen since doing this is 480 and that was flooring it up a steep hill for testing.
While cruising at 100kph my egt’s sit anywhere between 280 and 300 with boost sitting around the 10psi mark.
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
So are you guys trying this without any Dawes or other valve device, just the two needle valves as flow control?
G’day @geordie4x4 its just the 2 needle valves with no Dawes.
I tried it with the Dawes but it wasn’t doing much anyway and I find this arrangement is a bit better on fuel economy.
As a side note, I can really hear the air sucking down the snorkel more so now too.
I find it only takes very small adjustments on either valve to make a big difference.
My spool valve is not far off closed at present and then it’s a matter of adjusting the second needle to balance between performance and good egt’s.
 

·
Registered
2003 ZD30 Patrol
Joined
·
183 Posts
Yet the OP recons there is no need to monitor them... luckily you guys have more sense than that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
G’day @skegbudley, anytime I’m doing any test work I would always use my gauges as a reference. I wouldn’t be doing it otherwise.
I reckon I would monitor my egt gauge more than any other on the dash
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,195 Posts
G’day @skegbudley, anytime I’m doing any test work I would always use my gauges as a reference. I wouldn’t be doing it otherwise.
I reckon I would monitor my egt gauge more than any other on the dash
Agreed, it is the most important guage you can have on DI.
 
221 - 240 of 604 Posts
Top