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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #101 ·
I'm into the potentially ruining two transfer cases part of this deal.
I pulled the PTO drive gear out of the ute, the retaining nut behind it was loose and only held in place with a split pin, the service manual specifies 196-333nm and a split pin.
The PTO drive gear is attached to the main drive gear with what I assume are plug welds.
They do sit proud, so I wonder if that was why the nut backed off.

Eye Automotive tire Gear Art Bicycle part


One of main drive gear teeth is chipped.
Table Wood Rectangle Composite material Gas


Not ideal. But that chip seems to have been there a long time. And it doesn't seem to really affect tooth contact, based on the pattern on the teeth.
So she'll be right. Hopefully.

There's apparently a spacer behind that main drive gear too. Seems like the sort of thing I should replace, but I'll pull them out of both transfer cases and see if I can get away with not waiting 14 years to get one shipped from Japan if they still even exist.
 
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1989 GQ TD42 wagon
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I'm into the potentially ruining two transfer cases part of this deal.
I pulled the PTO drive gear out of the ute, the retaining nut behind it was loose and only held in place with a split pin, the service manual specifies 196-333nm and a split pin.
The PTO drive gear is attached to the main drive gear with what I assume are plug welds.
They do sit proud, so I wonder if that was why the nut backed off.

View attachment 541268

One of main drive gear teeth is chipped.
View attachment 541269

Not ideal. But that chip seems to have been there a long time. And it doesn't seem to really affect tooth contact, based on the pattern on the teeth.
So she'll be right. Hopefully.

There's apparently a spacer behind that main drive gear too. Seems like the sort of thing I should replace, but I'll pull them out of both transfer cases and see if I can get away with not waiting 14 years to get one shipped from Japan if they still even exist.
Is the spacer splined? If not, it'd be a fairly quick bit of machining.
 

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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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Is your winch the wide or narrow drum? Wide is about 11.5"
Measured up 11.5" inside of drum flanges. The 60 series was wider than the 45, recall I reduced cradle width to suit 45 install.

TBH wish I kept the SWB but needed the $$s to help replace it. Think I read your NA was 25V start, my B series was out of a Dyna Truck - 24V start so used a series / parallel switch, 24V start and 12V charge and for all other needs. 2x12V FLA (in boxes) out front in behind bull bar.
 

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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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I pulled the PTO drive gear out of the ute, the retaining nut behind it was loose and only held in place with a split pin, the service manual specifies 196-333nm and a split pin.
The PTO drive gear is attached to the main drive gear with what I assume are plug welds.
They do sit proud, so I wonder if that was why the nut backed off.
What do you think is causing the radial scouring of the spur gear counter bore base face? seems to be a result of metal spalling across the "plug weld" faces. Nut backed off would have allowed for the axial movement of gear (helical) on the splined shaft.
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
Joined
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Is the spacer splined? If not, it'd be a fairly quick bit of machining.
Nah the spacer isn't splined, neither one really wanted to come out of their homes, found out that's because they run through the front transfer seal.
If on the odd chance I don't have to disturb them, I won't, I'll check gear mesh as well as I can from laying underneath a car looking through a hole lol.

What do you think is causing the radial scouring of the spur gear counter bore base face? seems to be a result of metal spalling across the "plug weld" faces. Nut backed off would have allowed for the axial movement of gear (helical) on the splined shaft.
I cleaned the face of that gear up a little after I took the photo, they appear to just be tool marks from machining the gear.
 
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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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I cleaned the face of that gear up a little after I took the photo, they appear to just be tool marks from machining the gear.
Was my first thought but they appear to coincide with the alignment pins or "plug weld", would have expected to see the radial tool marks across entire bottom face. All good.


White Automotive tire Gear Bicycle part Rim
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
Joined
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #107 ·
Main gear is out of shorty.
The rear cover of the transfer has a needle roller bearing to support the end of the mainshaft. Good news is 10 of the rollers came out with the cover. Bad news is the rest did not.
Spent roughly an hour fighting with the split pin from hell. No idea wtf its made out of, but 3 sets of pliers, multi grips, a hammer, a punch and vice grips were involved. And I bent a 4mm punch trying to lever it out.
Not one to give in after a mere hour, the split pin has also fallen into the dark pits of the transfer case.
Guess I'm changing the oil and going fishing with a magnet.

Bigger problem is that the gears are different.
Transfer cases were updated during the production run, later models use larger stronger gears than earlier MQ. For whatever reason this knowledge did not occur to me until I pulled the mainshaft gear out.
MQ main gear and PTO drive gear on the left, MK on the right.
Tire Automotive tire Tread Automotive wheel system Gas


Both main gears are 21 tooth, but gear from the MK is thicker and is larger diameter due to the deeper teeth.
I could...
  • Swap the transfer cases. Don't really want the weaker transfer in the shorty though. And dropping then reinstalling two transfer and gearboxes is a fair bit of work.
  • Send it as is. The MQ gear, suitably spaced to minimise difference in contact pattern may work. But that is installing a weak point in the MK and the MK gear will be too large to mesh with MQ gears.
  • Throw the gears at a machinist. Get the PTO gear removed and welded to the MK main gear. By far the best option, definitely not cheap, but likely the way I'll go.
I have another late model transfer that'll end up in shorty eventually, so I may as well use that gear.

By the time this things fitted I'll have been able to buy myself a really nice new electric winch, and probably another for spares lol.
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
Joined
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #108 ·
There will be no swapping of transfer cases, or sending it as is. Had a closer look at the gears, not only the late model gear larger OD and thicker, it's also larger ID to accommodate a 30 spline shaft, whereas the early gear suits a 28 spline shaft.
Which also explains why the PTO gear is welded to the transfer main gear, as the PTO gear suits a 30 spline shaft.

Gears have been dropped off at the machinist to sort out. Early next week i'll have to drop off the shortys main transfer gear to get machined down as well.
Got a bit of help from a few MQ/MK guys who have way more experience with PTOs and transfers than I do.
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
Joined
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #109 ·
Well turns out the PTO gear was pinned to the old 28 spline main gear.
I also picked up my machined 30 spline gear. 6mm taken off.
Gear Tool Auto part Metal Circle


The PTO gear appears to have been drilled and pinned slightly off centre, which has resulted in a crack.
Automotive tire Gear Wood Rim Art


I did ask the machinist about welding up the holes in the PTO gear, he seemed to think it wasn't necessary, and that the crack shouldn't be an issue.
I also asked about pinning the PTO gear to the 30 spline gear as the spline depth is only about 6mm, once again apparently unnecessary, apparently the Nissan main gear is particularly hard and difficult to machine down, so it wouldn't be easy to drill pin bores anyway.

I'll get the shorty together tomorrow, then start working out how to mount the winch without moving the bullbar forward 3" like the ute, and something a little nicer than a cable through the floor to engage the PTO.

I'll have to find a spacer too, so I can put the ute back together. Without the PTO gear there, the nut will not clamp down on the machined main gear.
 

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1989 GQ TD42 wagon
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Well turns out the PTO gear was pinned to the old 28 spline main gear.
I also picked up my machined 30 spline gear. 6mm taken off.
View attachment 542280

The PTO gear appears to have been drilled and pinned slightly off centre, which has resulted in a crack.
View attachment 542281

I did ask the machinist about welding up the holes in the PTO gear, he seemed to think it wasn't necessary, and that the crack shouldn't be an issue.
I also asked about pinning the PTO gear to the 30 spline gear as the spline depth is only about 6mm, once again apparently unnecessary, apparently the Nissan main gear is particularly hard and difficult to machine down, so it wouldn't be easy to drill pin bores anyway.

I'll get the shorty together tomorrow, then start working out how to mount the winch without moving the bullbar forward 3" like the ute, and something a little nicer than a cable through the floor to engage the PTO.

I'll have to find a spacer too, so I can put the ute back together. Without the PTO gear there, the nut will not clamp down on the machined main gear.
Nissan like using difficult to machine metals in their PTO setups.
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
Joined
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11,384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #111 ·
Who'd have thought fitting a PTO from a T130A transfer to another T130A transfer would be difficult?

More hold ups. As per my previous post I had the transfer case main gear machined down 6mm, from 38mm to 32mm thick, to allow fitment of the Thomas PTO drive gear.
Today I found out the splines on the transfer case main shaft are about 32mm deep, so the PTO gear does not engage them.

I could potentially have the main gear machined down another 1mm max, that would give the PTO gear 1mm or so engagement. Beyond that, I'd have to start hacking into the other side, which will affect the contact pattern and area of the main gear, not keen on that.
I even refit everything to the ute to make sure I wasn't going crazy, and sure enough even with the previously modified gear from it, there is not enough spline depth to engage the PTO gear.

Between this and the Warn M10000 that I bought and rebuilt before getting this winch, I probably would have been better off just buying a new winch lol.
 
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