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Discussion Starter #1
G'day folks, I'm starting this thread to discuss, but more importantly, collect data on the premature timing chain failures which are apparent in the early series one aussie Y62 patrols. The issue seems to be limited to the pre March 2013 build vehicles (all with the VK56VD engines), typically with as little as 84K and up to 150K kms on the clock. Interestingly, the American VK56DE engines fitted to the Armada QX56 were plagued by the same issue.
The issue begins with timing chain stretch. As it stretches, the chain guide tensioner pushes the chain out so much it comes into contact with an oiler jet causing engine noise (squealing and rattling) from the front of the engine. The oiler eventually fails and the problem worsens. The engine's cam timing is also affected which can result in poor acceleration.

Video of noise:
Post March 2013, the issue seems to be non-existent ie. engines built after this date do not have the issue as they have been built with revised (beefier) timing chains that do not stretch like the earlier ones.
Cost of repairs (parts only) is approx AU$1300. Add labour and you're looking at nearly AU$6,000. The replacement chain in the repair kit is heavier duty so once repaired it's all happy days.

Repair info: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2013/SB-10051787-2549.pdf

To drill down further and hopefully segment the affected engines, I've collected a little information, (from FB and alike) to combine build dates with engine numbers. It's only a start so please feel free to add information and comments so that people who have or are contemplating purchasing a 2012 or an early 2013 Series 1 Y62 Patrol have a heads-up of what could be a potential issue. If you have one outside or close to these dates with or without issues, please share the info.
Please provide the Build Date on compliance plate, the last six digits of the engine number and the kms; (Scroll past the pics)

513734

Damaged oiler


513736




Dec 2012, Engine # 0000665 (my earliest known failure). 147,000kms
2013, Engine # 0000867 - Failure - 130,000kms
Jan 2013, Engine # 0000997 - Failure - 110,000 kms
Feb 2013, Engine # 0001614 - Good so far
 

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So i have the series 1, 90672 kms, build Feb13, VK56VD, Engine serial No; 084850A so far no noises. But have been interested in what has been happening. Im a Components reuilder (engines, trans, diff etc) and was going to buy a kit just for when i decide to do. Im gonna sukit a see at 100k and if no noise run it to 140k then change regardless. If noise starts earlier then naturally ill do earlier. It is interesting to know what noise starts to happen as ive seen in video. Ive also been watchin vids of the Titan cam chain changes to see if you have to take front diff out.
I get a rattle in my exhaust and think here we go. Making me paranoid😁
 

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This is a members tech thread, I think it deserves some respect. All non contributing posts will be removed.
 

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So i have the series 1, 90672 kms, build Feb13, VK56VD, Engine serial No; 084850A so far no noises. But have been interested in what has been happening. Im a Components reuilder (engines, trans, diff etc) and was going to buy a kit just for when i decide to do. Im gonna sukit a see at 100k and if no noise run it to 140k then change regardless. If noise starts earlier then naturally ill do earlier. It is interesting to know what noise starts to happen as ive seen in video. Ive also been watchin vids of the Titan cam chain changes to see if you have to take front diff out.
I get a rattle in my exhaust and think here we go. Making me paranoid😁
In the beginning when a few of the pre feb 2013 started going a lot of people thought it was the high pressure fuel pump as the noise was right there.

noise starts off as a bearing failure noise and apparently turns the crap rather quick.

Yeah there is a few time lapse titan chain swaps vids around. The front diff can stay by the looks of it.
 

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How interesting to hear about timing chain failures. The first generation 3.5 litre V6 twin turbo eco boost Ford petrol engine used in the F-150 and other models were also plagued by timing chain stretch issues, resulting in check engine light coming on when the timing gears jump a cog. If left alone the timing cogs can jump another time resulting in valves and pistons meeting (inference design). Ford's fix was to use a revised, stronger timing chain.

The path of the timing chain for Ford's Eco Boost engine is very similar to the Y62's engine.
 

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Would be great to be able to confirm Nissan fixed the the issue with a stronger timing chain from March 2013. I have an April 2013 build STL with 100,000ks and no issues yet. Nissan isnt likely to as it would confirm its warranty liability.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The chains in the photo... The top one is the old style and the new, more robust chain on the bottom.
 

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Trev,

Are you aware if any of the timing chain failures have been reported to Fair Trading as all vehicles involved are built well post of 2011 and the chain is not regarded as a serviceable item from what I can gather??

The implementation of a modified part by the manufacturer clearly demonstrates an awareness of the issue.

An engine failure (catastrophic loss of power) would be regarded as a major safety fault and should be subject to a vehicle recall notice being issued by the manufacturer.

Given you have mentioned known failures above have any of these been reported???? I suspect the extent of the problem is just surfacing as most owners probably average around 15000 to 20000 kms per year.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi PatrolWA , I’m not aware of any actual reports to Fair Trading. People have threatened to go through Fair Trading and then came to agreements with Nissan. These agreements vary from sharing the cost of repair up to Nissan wearing the full cost.
The timing chains are definitely not a serviceable item and one would expect them to last the life of the engine... which is way more than 120,000kms, especially if scheduled services have been maintained.
All of the failures that I know of that have been reported to Nissan, they’ve been reported before a catastrophic failure.
So they‘re definitely aware the issue and have demonstrated that they are willing to help those affected in one way or another. Not sure about recall... maybe because there’s so few of the affected ones here in Australia. Still, several hundred of them would be approaching these kms now.
 

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Thanks Trev,

Glad to hear Nissan Australia have been assisting owners with this issue that you are aware of. From you research in this area does the repair require a full engine removal from the vehicle and have you been able to gather any consistent characteristics amongst those owners who have suffered the issue. For example: Have they all been used for heavy towing duties??

My 2013 ST-L has 87 000 kms and has been used as a Tourer and Tow Rig. I take it from your comments that the chain actually stretches (causing significant engine operation issues) but does not actually fail as in break / crack etc. I gather in those vehicles that have suffered this issue the engine remains partially operational, as in it runs, but produces reduced power. Will be interesting to see what other information your discussion comes back with.
 

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I’m not sure I would agree that Nissan are helping owners.
Out of warranty and hands are wiped even though it clear the chain is crap and cars have low (80-120k on em)

i was down my local Bursons the other day and Keiron, one of the guys I know down there asked if I still had our 62 and if I had heard of the hp fuel pump failing, asked why and he said a customer came in and wanted a price on one. Showed him pics of the chain and said I bet my life it’s this and to let the owner know.
Nissan didn’t want a bar of his noise..
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
PatrolWA... the repair can be done with the engine still in the vehicle. Still a major job though. As for consistencies in use or service routines, I have little info on this.
I have heard of failures despite the engines being serviced on time. I don’t think towing has any bearing on chain life. It’s more likely the just the weak design of the chain and how it’s treated like revving a cold engine, frequent high revs, using cheap oil etc.
Simcoe... Nissan are gonna wanna play hardball with any case like this. But there’s definitely been cases where agreements to share costs have been reached.
Yep, HP fuel pump trouble codes have popped up in some cases along with noise making it seem that the fuel pump is the issue. A loose chain will throw out the whole engines timing resulting in error codes, power reduction and limp mode.

A recall is what’s needed for all engines built with the weak timing chain.
 

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Hey TrevHead62.

We have had this happen to our early 2013 Y62 TiL. We noticed a rattle before the 80,000km service and mentioned the rattle noise when it went in for the 80k service we were told that we were imagining the noise and they had tightened a stone guard..
Another 10,000kms rattle noise worsening, still unable to diagnose the problem..
Finally after 120,000kms the noise had become quite extreme and undeniably the timing chain. The dealership then proceeded to tell us that the repairs are going to cost us over 8 grand!! We were not impressed at all about this idea and after a messy experience between Nissan Australia, Ourselves and the dealership, eventually
repairs were all covered by Nissan Australia and repairs were performed at the dealership where we purchased the vehicle and also had all of the scheduled servicing done.
Since the repair to the timing chain we have been left with an engine that is burning oil at an alarming rate, and the rattle has returned.
It has now become obvious that there has been some additional damage to the internals of the engine due to the prolonged inability to diagnose the timing chain issue, and has been overlooked when the repairs were done at the dealership.
In your opinion, do you think our request to Nissan Australia for a new replacement engine is reasonable?[/QUOTE]
 

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Hello TrevHead62,

We have been a customer at the same Nissan Dealership since 2006, in that time we have purchased three new vehicles and had all servicing and repairs performed at the Dealership Service Department.

The most recent and our current vehicle is our 2013 Y62 Patrol. During the first 75,000km we had trouble free motoring and were very happy with the capability and performance particularly towing, which is the primary reason we chose the Y62 Patrol.

At the 80,000km service we had voiced our concerns about an engine rattle under load (whilst accelerating). And excessive fuel consumption.
The Dealership Service Department performed the 80,000km service and were unable to diagnose the engine rattle that we had concerns about, noting that they had tightened some stone guard.

Again at 90,00km and every 10,000 kms after that, we voiced our concerns with a progressively worsening engine rattle.
Finally after 120,000km the diagnosis was made that the timing chain needed to be replaced and was the cause of the engine rattle and excessive fuel consumption.

The investigation into the cause of the timing chain damage, concluded that a known problem with a chain lubricator was to blame. A problem that was consequently rectified with series 2&3
Y62 Patrols.

In addition, and as a direct result of the timing chain issue both Catalytic Converters were required to be replaced on seperate occasions.

Nissan Australia covered the cost of the repairs.

Since the repairs were performed by the Dealership Service Department, the engine has been consuming oil at an alarming rate..
We had only traveled 7,500km after the repairs when we noticed the engine rattle had returned.. and there was only a very small amount of oil showing on the dipstick, approximately 2-3mm
The Dealership then recommend an oil log to be carried out under instruction from Nissan Australia.

It is our strong belief that there has been some additional damage to the internals of the engine due to the prolonged inability to diagnose the original timing chain issue..
Damage that has been overlooked by the Dealership Service Department when repairs were carried out.

Another Service was performed by the dealership service department and we were were requested to return after 1,000km to have the oil level checked.. with no noticeable difference in oil level found??

Another 10,000kms and the engine rattle has returned and oil level extremely low on the dipstick.
the dealership service department performed the service and told that the rate of consumption is acceptable and not to worry about the engine rattle and to just top up the oil when it gets low.

In our opinion, this level of unprofessionalism is unacceptable and we should not have to deal with this nor should we be expected to, when we had an engine that was NOT consuming oil before the timing chain issue and the repairs performed by the Dealership Service Department

We find ourselves just going around and around in circles, we understand that there is a process to follow and we have been very patient up to this point.

We believe that the Dealership Service Department is in denial and we have very little faith in the head mechanic there...
It is our hope that we can resolve this issue once and for all, and request that any further investigation and subsequent repairs regarding this issue to be undertaken by a different Nissan Australia approved repairer nearby our residence.
 

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Hello again TrevHead62,
These two photos of the dipstick on the morning after our most recent service at The Dealership Service Department, show that it has now become apparent why there have been inconsistencies in the previous oil consumption tests.
The dipstick shows that the oil level is much higher than recommended, At the current rate of consumption explains why, after 2000km the oil level does not appear to be have dropped.
As in previous oil consumption tests performed by The Dealership Service Department.
Which now confirms my concerns about the ability to diagnose faults and the overall professionalism of the Dealership Service Department.

I would like to stress my case further,
that it is only a matter of time now until the Catalytic Converts will need to be replaced again due to the amount of oil being burned..

We have been going around and around in circles with this for far too long and would like to finally see some results.
Results being a complete rebuild or preferably a new replacement engine..

Because there is obviously been some additional damage that has been overlooked when the timing chain was replaced. Damage that had been caused by the inability of The Dealership Service Department to diagnose the issue with the timing chain when symptoms first appeared.
3D86C861-A619-4212-9785-71BAB95CFA6E.jpeg
C0ECACAE-1BBA-4E05-B74F-B4D7E6208F73.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi Rad78, thanks for sharing your story. What a shame it’s come to this. You must be p’d off and I don’t blame you. If only they’d investigated the problem more thoroughly when it first arose. That goes to show that the engine has suffered from the metal debris from the Oiler jets inside it. Probably scored the cylinders.
I think you have a good case for a replacement engine, and by the sounds of it you have a lot of ammo if you take it to a tribunal.
 

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PatrolWA... the repair can be done with the engine still in the vehicle. Still a major job though. As for consistencies in use or service routines, I have little info on this.
I have heard of failures despite the engines being serviced on time. I don’t think towing has any bearing on chain life. It’s more likely the just the weak design of the chain and how it’s treated like revving a cold engine, frequent high revs, using cheap oil etc.
Simcoe... Nissan are gonna wanna play hardball with any case like this. But there’s definitely been cases where agreements to share costs have been reached.
Yep, HP fuel pump trouble codes have popped up in some cases along with noise making it seem that the fuel pump is the issue. A loose chain will throw out the whole engines timing resulting in error codes, power reduction and limp mode.

A recall is what’s needed for all engines built with the weak timing chain.
I would love a recall. Nissan will imo what engines have what chain.

I still have 1.5 years of my 6 yr warranty so I’m not to worried, I’ll probably move it on for a new one before then anyway.
 

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RAD78,

Thanks for sharing the events and process you have experienced to this stage which sounds very concerning to all those who own Y62 Patrols of this era.

Can I ask have you reported this matter to the ACCC??? In my research it is clear that a Recall was issued internationally for this engine re a known fault with the operation of the Timing Chain as the key component. I would anticipate the Australian Engine was built to the same specs but an Australian recall was not issued.

Given the number of consumers who are starting to report issues, the cost of the product (purchase price), and its expected operational life; I would anticipate the ACCC will be interested in the information you have supplied and your experience with Nissan in conjunction with the impact it may have on the other owners of this product.

The international reports sighted safety concerns re the operation of the vehicle subject to this fault as a reason for the recall. Those concerns are relevant to Australian Owners and Australian Authorities.

Y62 Patrols have a Tare of around 2800 KG and a GCM of 7000 kg. A change in engine operation and performance is a safety concern for all owners should a loss of power be experienced.

I suggest you discuss this matter with the ACCC who are the investigative matter re Fair Trading Legislation in Australia. Via this Forum and Facebook pages I am sure effected owners will come forward to provide information to the ACCC if required.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

From the ACCC website this is the link I found... https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/contact-the-accc/report-a-consumer-issue but you may need to call them to discuss the information further.
 
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