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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was out hunting this weekend and a 4x4 mob was having their fun in the woods. They where tackling a decent decent with clay and mud which I could see being a bit of an issue. The hill got a slight camber and after about 50 m you have to turn slightly as the camber gets a bit too much for comfort.

I have driven down once when it was dry and it wasn't an issue. I also driven up once in the wet and it took a fair bit of momentum to get up.

Here is the question. I stopped and had a look when these cars went down the hill. The was an official looking guy there to spotted for the other cars and some of the drivers were not very used to 4x4 what I could tell. Also two of them had road tyres on.

When they drove down the spotter told them to go slow…. very slow. So slow that they had to use the break. Is there any reason when you should use the break under these circumstances? If it was up to me I would be in first and stay away from the break to all costs. Would using the hand break work? Or why did they guy tell people to drive so slow that they needed to break?

I should say that it would be a scary hill to build up any momentum on as it is long, steep, muddy and got a couple of turns along the way.

Anyone with technical knowledge feel free to enlighten me...
 

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Weekend Warrior
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Well with a patrol atleast, when your in low range 1st gear you can still stand on the brakes and the engine still ticks over at low revs. And due to the driveline of the patrol the braking is balanced across all four wheels most of the time.

But the real skill you want to achieve in ths situation is modulating the brake at the right moment, steering inputs and traction level influences this as well. Having locked axles front and rear make this stuff a cake walk.

If you have a clear run with nothing in the way like obstacles causing the vehicle to bounce in the air or do damage, you may as well let the vehicle gently meander its way down slowly, not getting on the brakes all the time.
 

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Glasshouse Bogan #1
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Hard on the brakes and the handbrake is normal in some hill descents.
Now I have reduction gears I have to hit the throttle so I dont spend all day going down lol.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Weekend Warrior
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Slippery clay though, hard on the brakes will cause you to lock one wheel and slide off the track, you need to give the vehicle a line of least resistance without building too much momentum to maintain control.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The guys where driving older land rovers. The thing that looked iffy was as they drove down the hill the car would fishtail slightly. They had a couple of people pushing on the side trying to keep it on track. I really need to do some courses to learn more about technical driving. The did lock the tyres and then it started to slide.

In my case I do not have any lockers on my patrol. Neither do I have reduction gears. Even worse…. still need to get a winch :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh, also saw one hilux with decent muddies :) No Patrols other that mine and I was driving a different way trying to find some goats for the freezer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I had a weekend on public land in the blue mountains outside Sydney. The are goats there but far and few between. However it as a reason to take the wagon for a walk :D Trying to hunt and fish to cover the protein for the family 5 days a week. Not there yet but I am working on it.

Thanks for the reply guys, I guess I got plenty to learn about 4x4'ing.
 

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I would be creeping along as slow as possible on the brakes until it does loose traction. At that point you would need to act quick to ease off the brake in an attempt to gain traction/control.

Heading down without brakes in most cases could be way to fast in extremely slippery conditions, would only lead to bad things.

Some times it can be safer to just avoid clay hills in the wet. This video is of about the worst conditions you can get. The 2nd vehicle was lucky not to head for a wild ride further down the hill.
http://vid235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/CHRISMAV_2007/GentleAnnie.mp4
 

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There is a lot of crap they teach in those 4wd driver training courses that is out of date info. The instructor is often "captain cautious" and hasn't done much beyond touring the national parks in his pajero. The classics are "never touch the brake going downhill", "only stall stop and stall start on hills". Both bits of advice are rubbish.

Bloke83 summed it up. Don't lock up the wheels. Use the brake appropriately.
 

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There is a lot of crap they teach in those 4wd driver training courses that is out of date info. The instructor is often "captain cautious" and hasn't done much beyond touring the national parks in his pajero. The classics are "never touch the brake going downhill", "only stall stop and stall start on hills". Both bits of advice are rubbish.

Bloke83 summed it up. Don't lock up the wheels. Use the brake appropriately.
Stall recovery technique is still very relevent, and downright dangerous to not do it in a manual vehicle in very steep conditions.
 

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I agree with chrismav, stall recovery's are an important technique to know and practice, but "only ever stall start/stop" isn't always the best course of action.

Same with braking. As we all know what's in the textbook isn't necessarily correct, but teaching "avoid the brake" and "if in doubt let it stall" would be easiest I imagine for instructors doing generic training... Learning by doing is the best here.

I was always taught to avoid the brake in steep slippery conditions but use it if you need to... essentially 'whatever I tell you isn't going to cover all scenarios, use your head (and of course the ol' sphincter ;))'
 

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Glasshouse Bogan #1
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I don't even remember exactly what the stall recovery thingy is but what I do know is if you have time to remember how too do it it aint steep enough to need it and if its steep enough to need it you wont have time to remember how.





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Stall recovery technique is still very relevent, and downright dangerous to not do it in a manual vehicle in very steep conditions.

I disagree. In 25 years of 4wding I've never needed to do it and on a number of occasions I'd probably have come unstuck if I did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The guy who sold my patrol to me included a short basic 4x4 session in the price as he used to teach. Stalled recovery was one of the things we went through but only as a safety so I knew what to do if I ever needed it. Also common sense seems right to me. Sub question, are the a differance using handbrake vs foot? I find I have more "feel" in my foot than hand brake.
 

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Great practical advice!

And don't use a front diff lock... that can induce a skid if you turn the steering wheel.

I would be creeping along as slow as possible on the brakes until it does loose traction. At that point you would need to act quick to ease off the brake in an attempt to gain traction/control.

Heading down without brakes in most cases could be way to fast in extremely slippery conditions, would only lead to bad things.

Some times it can be safer to just avoid clay hills in the wet. This video is of about the worst conditions you can get. The 2nd vehicle was lucky not to head for a wild ride further down the hill.
http://vid235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/CHRISMAV_2007/GentleAnnie.mp4
 

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What is a stall recovery? Never heard of it.
 

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Stall recovery is when you are driving a manual up a slippery incline and you aren't going to make it... you let the engine stall and apply the brakes as the engine stalls and the car has virtually stopped. With your foot on the brake, you select reverse and low range and let the clutch out then you take your foot off the brake and the car should start to roll backwards and roll-start the engine, if not use the starter motor.

Advance is meant to be you don't jerk the car around and risk a skid applying the brakes and clutch to start n stop.

You can also normal start the car going fwd in low range first using the same technique.

Many of us would be gentle enough on the brakes n clutch not to need this.
 
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