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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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OK it won't interest a lot of people but, I was reading recently about sea acidity experiments carried out in the antarctic. Acrylic containers were setup and into each one was placed a variety of basic sealife, then each container was exposed to different levels of acidity to match "Carbon inspired global warming", the results were not encouraging but then thinking about it, what was the point, they exposed creatures to differing acidity levels and they died off, hang on!!! does the acidity of the ocean rise overnight? cause it doesn't it takes hundreds and possibly thousands of years to occur, so animals adapt6, that is what evolution is all about.

We hear talk about our coral reefs dying of due to temperature rise, hang on, I can take them to coral reefs in PNG that are growing in much hotter water than we have, so there is a good chance they will spawn and the prodigy will slowly drift south and grow because once again it doesn't happen overnight.

Doing a bit of research I found this and it was an excellent read if you have the time.

We are not edging up to a mass extinction – Stewart Brand – Aeon
 

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I Have Imaginary Friends
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The climate change/ global warming/ carbon dioxide lunies will tell you anything to keep their highly payed nonproductive jobs. Climate is changing, it's normal, takes a long time. Tell them to go fkuc themselves. Stinking, dole bludging UnAustralian greenies. They are all watermelons, green on the outside, red in the middle. Our planet is adaptable and can tolerate any of these changes from ice ages to warmer times.
 

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Triton n Lovin it.
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X2 :)

Foo
 

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nissan
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Wait until the mainstream media and greenies sink their teeth into Geomagnetic Reversal :)

Historical data shows that the climate is changing and always has been changing. A very, very gradual change. The thing to look at is if/how us human scum are affecting the process, but to be honest I think we are going to cause more problems through things such as deforestation.

The funny thing is the earth is actually still in an ice age (though in an interglacial period) and there have been some studies that suggest the increased CO2 levels will simply extend the interglacial period, which is already abnormally long and has been so for much longer than we have been burning fossil fuels. After that we will go back to a period of glaciation marked by colder temperatures and more ice.... Then it will be about 'global cooling will kill us all' again.

I haven't read the article yet, but looks very interesting. Shall bookmark it for later.
 

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Rust is just natural weight reduction.
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does the acidity of the ocean rise overnight? cause it doesn't it takes hundreds and possibly thousands of years to occur, so animals adapt6, that is what evolution is all about.
Haven't yet read your link yet, I'll get around to that, but what I have quoted of your post is exactly my thinking.
 

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Hmm, yes Geeyou, I agree with you to some extent, however the chemistry of the ocean is critical to the maintenance of many ecosystems and it has been one of the most stable environments on the planet over the ages.

There is huge capacity for the ocean to buffer the effects of global warming and C02 levels however, there are some casualties along the way and more critically there may be a tipping point where recovery is not likely. When average temperatures cause glacial sheets to melt and permafrost shoreline ice to release huge amounts of stored C02 then the situation becomes increasingly worse. Ocean C02 leading to more carbonic acid and lower pH is occurring more rapidly than many of our most stable ecosystems can accommodate.

So yes some communities will adapt but we might not appreciate the mass loss of our most pristine reef systems in the process.

Corals and many other organisms which rely on extracting the minute amount of calcium from the sea to build their coral skeleton, gastropod and bivalve shells, echinoderm skeletons, etc all rely on a fine balance of pH levels to be able to fix calcium carbonate. If the pH changes just enough that they are unable to obtain the elements they need to grow, then they are stuffed. Unfortunately this is occurring on a faster rate than many species are able to accommodate so there are ecosystems under stress. Then it only takes a small subsequent change to tip the balance.

Yes corals in some areas are more tolerant to higher temperatures, however, that is still within their normal yearly cycle. When there are more extreme temperature events, this is when corals are most under stress, so even corals from much warmer waters can only tolerate extremes for a certain period before they become stressed, they eject their symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) causing bleaching and if temperatures do not ease, eventually death.

I have witnessed some pristine areas such as Scott Reef which lost approximately 70% of its live coral cover over two successive years of bleaching events caused by higher than normal temperatures. This combined with more fishing pressure as other reefs to the north have been plundered and a few other extreme events (cyclones) and what was one of the most remote and you would assume best protected areas, is under significant stress.

So yes in the geological and evolutionary time scale, things will evolve, adapt and recover. But in our lifetime and our children's, we are managing to push some serious changes on the environment and even the most remote pristine areas are being impacted.
 

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bit cold out it seems
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my issue with the human impact of global warming is that no matter what we do here in australia we'll have nearly no impact on what is happening elsewhere in the world. makes me sad.

pretty bloody sad really but humans are a scourge on this planet.
 

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Hmm, yes Geeyou, I agree with you to some extent, however the chemistry of the ocean is critical to the maintenance of many ecosystems and it has been one of the most stable environments on the planet over the ages.

There is huge capacity for the ocean to buffer the effects of global warming and C02 levels however, there are some casualties along the way and more critically there may be a tipping point where recovery is not likely. When average temperatures cause glacial sheets to melt and permafrost shoreline ice to release huge amounts of stored C02 then the situation becomes increasingly worse. Ocean C02 leading to more carbonic acid and lower pH is occurring more rapidly than many of our most stable ecosystems can accommodate.

So yes some communities will adapt but we might not appreciate the mass loss of our most pristine reef systems in the process.

Corals and many other organisms which rely on extracting the minute amount of calcium from the sea to build their coral skeleton, gastropod and bivalve shells, echinoderm skeletons, etc all rely on a fine balance of pH levels to be able to fix calcium carbonate. If the pH changes just enough that they are unable to obtain the elements they need to grow, then they are stuffed. Unfortunately this is occurring on a faster rate than many species are able to accommodate so there are ecosystems under stress. Then it only takes a small subsequent change to tip the balance.

Yes corals in some areas are more tolerant to higher temperatures, however, that is still within their normal yearly cycle. When there are more extreme temperature events, this is when corals are most under stress, so even corals from much warmer waters can only tolerate extremes for a certain period before they become stressed, they eject their symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) causing bleaching and if temperatures do not ease, eventually death.

I have witnessed some pristine areas such as Scott Reef which lost approximately 70% of its live coral cover over two successive years of bleaching events caused by higher than normal temperatures. This combined with more fishing pressure as other reefs to the north have been plundered and a few other extreme events (cyclones) and what was one of the most remote and you would assume best protected areas, is under significant stress.

So yes in the geological and evolutionary time scale, things will evolve, adapt and recover. But in our lifetime and our children's, we are managing to push some serious changes on the environment and even the most remote pristine areas are being impacted.

Bloody good post
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
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my issue with the human impact of global warming is that no matter what we do here in australia we'll have nearly no impact on what is happening elsewhere in the world. makes me sad.

pretty bloody sad really but humans are a scourge on this planet.
I have had this argument with my son an his greenie mates.

They keep trotting out how Australia has to cut emissions as we are the 'biggest green house gas emitters on the planet (according to the greens and labor apparently)'.

But none factor in the the actual figures.

Australia, population 25,000,000 at 18.3t per person = 457,500,000 tonnes.
(A lot of that caused by mining, the thing that has kept us afloat for a long time. In decline now.)

China population 1,375,000,000 at 7.2t per person = 9,900,000,000 tonnes
(half the population is subsistence farming or very poor who burn coal for everything from cooking to hot water to heating, so are big contributors).

USA population 318,900,000 at 17.2t per person = 5,485,080,000 tonnes.

The above two countries, while saying that are going to cut emissions have actually done sweet feck all as yet (that twat Obama can't even get the funds he announced at the G20 in oz that he was going to put into cutting emissions, despite trying to tell us to do more his own country will not give him the money. All to curry favor on the international scene because he is a dead duck in the US, whankor)

Then there is the EU. Huge amounts of carbon reduction (but still missed all targets)

Population 741,200,000 at 8.1t per person = 6,003,720,000

Yes, oz has to do it's bit as we are changing the environment on that there is no doubt (just due to population growth), but the BS that is trotted out by the carbon scientists is more than a little skewed to say the least... They also have to protect their income to a certain degree.

And then we have the biggest problem. Those who take all that comes from the mouths of the left and green (which is still left) as gospel without even bothering to look into what they are being told before they start on the protests, electing greens and all the rest of the mess.

We need a pandemic, or nothing will change and the world is buggered, and it will just cost the workers in countries like ours who are actively doing something billions for sweet feck all.
 
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Drillerboy,
yes I have to agree completely that the arguments get so badly abused from both sides using twisted statistics to push which ever their view. It is unfortunate that the green side of the story gets so emotive and out of focus as to what really needs to be done to protect our environment. The scare tactics really do nothing to solve what needs to happen and it is also so easy for the knockers to shoot down the their emotive argument anyway.

Politicians are only thinking as far ahead to meet their own needs of re-election or building a monument so they are remembered.

But there are unfortunately very few long term future thinkers who have the power to influence. Which reminds me I need to listen to that talk by Dr Karl on the future of Australia.
 

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The Member Formerly Known as Lusty Dusty
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I don't know enough about this subject to offer any opinion, but

I read, last week, that last known Western Black Rino was killed by poachers and is now officially extinct.

God help us all...


Cheers.....Lionel.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
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Drillerboy,
yes I have to agree completely that the arguments get so badly abused from both sides using twisted statistics to push which ever their view. It is unfortunate that the green side of the story gets so emotive and out of focus as to what really needs to be done to protect our environment. The scare tactics really do nothing to solve what needs to happen and it is also so easy for the knockers to shoot down the their emotive argument anyway.

Politicians are only thinking as far ahead to meet their own needs of re-election or building a monument so they are remembered.

But there are unfortunately very few long term future thinkers who have the power to influence. Which reminds me I need to listen to that talk by Dr Karl on the future of Australia.
Vote for me, I know how to cut the green house emissions by more than the Kyoto agreement requirement within about 2 years. Without stopping power supply, or putting everyone in a coal mine out of work.

But you have to vote me dictator for life. :)

When I have put this to my son and his mates they reject it instantly because it does not involve putting wave, wind, sun and hydro 'renewable energy' generators. What they fail to understand that are the present technology renewable's are not infinitely renewable. They rely of rare earths to work, which is very finite.

Rare earths are also is a great source of child labor (africa) and heavy pollution (china). China also dictates the commodity price, they have the largest reserves on the two world suppliers.

With that I lay into them about just moving the problems somewhere else, great piece of social engineering for a bunch of socialists ...

They just say I don't understand. They are nothing but uni educated idiots ... Which is becoming the norm in Oz unfortunately.
 

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I Have Imaginary Friends
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Dr. Karl is a watermelon. He and Bob Brown are friends.
 

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With that I lay into them about just moving the problems somewhere else, great piece of social engineering for a bunch of socialists ...

They just say I don't understand. They are nothing but uni educated idiots ... Which is becoming the norm in Oz unfortunately.
Hmm, I have to admit that I am a Greenie, but I am also a realist. I live in a house made from materials mined or cut down, I drive a primitive fossil fuel burning Patrol, even my eco friendly, sail and pedal powered boat is constructed from petroleum based plastics.

A few years ago I was in Indonesia and one of my local friends was showing me the "Plantation" where they had cut down thousands of hectares of "useless rain-forest" and planted thousands of hectares of sugar palm trees to produce bio-ethanol for the European market in "green fuel". FFS how can you burn ethanol and think that it is saving the environment when it is contributing to deforestation.

Shifting the problem elsewhere is becoming a huge part of the economy, to make people feel good and think they are being green, when in fact they are just dumping the problem on some third world country and paying for the privilege of a "carbon-neutral vehicle" sticker to make them sleep better at night.
 

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Dr. Karl is a watermelon. He and Bob Brown are friends.
Yes I know Bob, he and my Uncle were great friends, but that does not mean you have to believe everything they say as gospel. They have some valid views, despite a lot of other crap that goes around. If you'r an intelligent person, you can listen to what both sides have to say and pick which parts of it have some merit.
 

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I Have Imaginary Friends
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I had hopes for Garret. He just became a jellyfish. So much for his protest songs. Brown started off with great ideas, then just followed the path of the least resistance and became a carbon fanatic. Plants thrive on CO2. People who use the giant igloos to grow the plants spend a fortune on bottled CO2.
 
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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A few years ago I was in Indonesia and one of my local friends was showing me the "Plantation" where they had cut down thousands of hectares of "useless rain-forest" and planted thousands of hectares of sugar palm trees to produce bio-ethanol for the European market in "green fuel". FFS how can you burn ethanol and think that it is saving the environment when it is contributing to deforestation.

Shifting the problem elsewhere is becoming a huge part of the economy, to make people feel good and think they are being green, when in fact they are just dumping the problem on some third world country and paying for the privilege of a "carbon-neutral vehicle" sticker to make them sleep better at night.
That is happening all over that area, when I was working in Malaysia I drove up to Langkawi Island for a bit of a break (naturally I caught the ferry across :)) and it was wall to wall Palm Sugar Plantations for hundreds of K.

From my apartment in Shah Alam Indonesis was not a huge distance across the staights, even on a good day we could see the smoke haze from the burning of rainforest in Indonesia to make way for even more Palm Sugar Plantations. And it's Australia that gets the reputation of being a bad environment manager, Shiiiiiish.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

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My beloved Nan was a Calithumpian! :D
 
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