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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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Discussion Starter #41
@OldMav stated in a post, that I read some time ago, that a pod type filter box is best to provide at least a 30mm clearance from the box internal inlet face to pod base.

ie _ as mentioned in your build thread), IMO the 55mm base clearance to 9" K&N pod filter base as provided with Ben Lipscombe 330mm long airbox is fine (up to you). With the profile of the box and the way that debris is collected uniformly over pod appears to work well(with h/f turbo). Have thought of cutting an angle on the pod rubber clamp face so to skew the pod to achieve a more even clearance around, but this may be detrimental to a cyclonic effect of air flow.
Bens Box Pod 9 inch K&N_330mm long CRD no nutserts fitted.jpg
 

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Talking ideals 30mm clearance is the minimum so at least most of the element has a chance to be used. But with pod elements they were never designed to be in a box. Like most round element they like air entry to be circulated around the element. Sadly entry air from the end like these examples is not ideal but works good enough for our power range or our air requirement. End entry like the examples really do need something like 100mm clear to keep pressure differentials below 0.5in Hg.I have only done preliminary testing on a FATs product. The test did show excellent flow capacity at constant flow values, but did struggle on spool up air flow they will hinder spool compared to a panel element like a Radius fab type due to entry air design and space. The Radius would be a lot closer to ideal had the air box been designed with 30mm clearance all around the edges though.

This tech stuff is well documented in white papers its not just my findings.Remembering all my testing is for air accelerations from 0 lbs/min to 40 lbs/minute air in 5 seconds which is about whats needed for a 200rwkw turbo diesel engine.For lesser acceleration requirements obviously the demands on air acceleration capacity are a lot less.

For a good check on how your air box and element works is looking at the dirt line on the element at service time, this is a good indicator. For example a ZD air box tell tail dirt deposit right at the entry point on the element. That nice 100mm round dirt packed deposit right at the entry is not a good sign actually its worse than horrible which it evident on any testing done on this type of air box even for std ZD30 air demands. This indicator is a sure fire indicator that the air box is killing turbo spool and driveability, net alone filtration which is what the air box is suppose to achieve. Sadly The ZD30 box can see 14m/sec air speeds at the entry point. At those air speeds the element can only filter rocks. For most elements something under 4/m/sec is ideal for the element to do its job. I have posted this data many times in the past but doesn't hurt to post this info again.
 

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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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Discussion Starter #43
@OldMav thanks Peter, worthwhile input again.

I have not done a run yet w/o pod in this box.
Attach are two pics of my 9"K&N pod filter/box that are representative of my daily operating environment (@ nom 5000km service interval). Debris is distributed fairly evenly thru 360° / more evident @ larger dia(has 55mm pod base clearance). Live out of town on dirt road. Thoughts?
1, K&N 9 in Pod 5000km_base clearance 55mm.jpg
2. K&N 9 Pod 5000km_base clearance 55mm.jpg
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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@OldMav stated in a post, that I read some time ago, that a pod type filter box is best to provide at least a 30mm clearance from the box internal inlet face to pod base.

ie _ as mentioned in your build thread), IMO the 55mm base clearance to 9" K&N pod filter base as provided with Ben Lipscombe 330mm long airbox is fine (up to you). With the profile of the box and the way that debris is collected uniformly over pod appears to work well(with h/f turbo). Have thought of cutting an angle on the pod rubber clamp face so to skew the pod to achieve a more even clearance around, but this may be detrimental to a cyclonic effect of air flow.
View attachment 519664
Talking ideals 30mm clearance is the minimum so at least most of the element has a chance to be used. But with pod elements they were never designed to be in a box. Like most round element they like air entry to be circulated around the element. Sadly entry air from the end like these examples is not ideal but works good enough for our power range or our air requirement. End entry like the examples really do need something like 100mm clear to keep pressure differentials below 0.5in Hg.I have only done preliminary testing on a FATs product. The test did show excellent flow capacity at constant flow values, but did struggle on spool up air flow they will hinder spool compared to a panel element like a Radius fab type due to entry air design and space. The Radius would be a lot closer to ideal had the air box been designed with 30mm clearance all around the edges though.

This tech stuff is well documented in white papers its not just my findings.Remembering all my testing is for air accelerations from 0 lbs/min to 40 lbs/minute air in 5 seconds which is about whats needed for a 200rwkw turbo diesel engine.For lesser acceleration requirements obviously the demands on air acceleration capacity are a lot less.

For a good check on how your air box and element works is looking at the dirt line on the element at service time, this is a good indicator. For example a ZD air box tell tail dirt deposit right at the entry point on the element. That nice 100mm round dirt packed deposit right at the entry is not a good sign actually its worse than horrible which it evident on any testing done on this type of air box even for std ZD30 air demands. This indicator is a sure fire indicator that the air box is killing turbo spool and driveability, net alone filtration which is what the air box is suppose to achieve. Sadly The ZD30 box can see 14m/sec air speeds at the entry point. At those air speeds the element can only filter rocks. For most elements something under 4/m/sec is ideal for the element to do its job. I have posted this data many times in the past but doesn't hurt to post this info again.
thanks both of you. Very informative.

@OldMav do you think there’s any benefit to me running an 8” rather than 9”? Would go from 55mm clearance to 80mm clearance.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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If I had my time and money again, I would maybe consider doing the radius fab panel filter and moving the aux battery to the rear. Although it’s a bit of money/work to do so.

I spoke to radius who said that yes the coolant components would have to be moved to make it work, but doable. Not really something Id be willing to do right now.

tbh with my stock turbo, injectors and no real desire to create monster power, I think the pod may provide sufficient flow.

there’s also an issue of money. I got the aux battery tray used for a steal, and bens pod box is at least $200 cheaper than any panel box (before necessary mods etc)
 

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Nissan patrol GU
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Is there any benefits in having the 9 “ inch pod filter with out the air box..?
 

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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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Discussion Starter #47
I certainly would not do it, due to higher risk of water ingress and pod most likely be place in the engine bay so sucking hotter air.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Neither would I, hot, hot air, lose all the benefits gained.
 

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Ok , so more negatives , but let’s say water was not a factor as it was placed higher up in engine bay, where the filter was exposed to less hot air would that make any difference . Not planning on doing this but just wanted to hear people thoughts about this. Sorry don’t mean to get this thread off topic
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Ok , so more negatives , but let’s say water was not a factor as it was placed higher up in engine bay, where the filter was exposed to less hot air would that make any difference . Not planning on doing this but just wanted to hear people thoughts about this. Sorry don’t mean to get this thread off topic
No it won't help, underhood temps (no matter where you put it) are not what we want, that temp only gets added to as the air flows from pickup point through turbo to the intercooler then inlet manifold, ideally you want to start off with the coolest air you can get. One of the reasons we use water injection is to cool the air and make it more dense.
 

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Nissan patrol GU
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thanks for the feedback guy’s just one last question. So idea is We need want dense air for more efficient burn and compression then combustion to get bang for buck?
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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thanks for the feedback guy’s just one last question. So idea is We need want dense air for more efficient burn and compression then combustion to get bang for buck?
It was not uncommon for DI owner members who lived in cold climate with a bit of altitude to experience 'cold limp' due to air density pushing MAFv up above the ECU limitation, this would happen until the engine warmed up and consequently air warmed up so MAFv returned to 'normal', had experienced this myself on winter trips many years ago.
If you could drive a vehicle in cold weather and then immediately in extremely hot weather you would feel a considerable difference, an example of this can be done on a dyno without a fan, do several runs and get everything nice and hot then take your number, then grab a big spray bottle full of cool water and spray the daylights out of the IC until temps drop dramatically, turn on the fan and do one quick 'warrior' run, much more gooderer.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Approx 6 months ago, I replaced my 600x300x76mm T&F TM cooler with same size Bar & Plate FM, removed the large bonnet scoop and fitted a rear facing louver panel _covered 600x300mm opening (facing towards windscreen). The heat that pours out of these louvers is surprising at idle after a 50km run. Must help with reducing adverse heat impact on induction piping and air box.. With this arrangement and heat shield between dump pipe and firewall, my wife no longer mentions how hot the cabin is. Win win.

Colder intake air_My layman's understanding_Colder air, being denser, more air molecules and therefore more fuel is added=more pwr. Advice from others is appreciated (learning here)

Over the last couple of month, I have been doing back to back comparisons with using various boost control methods with and without VNT vac sol, and just in last few weeks have noticed with the dramatic drop in ambient temps from mid 20s down to mid teens (ignoring the chill factor), getting lower EGTs and ECT, but with colder air (denser) have noticed slightly higher MAF and seems to lug a bit more solid. Though as expected, have noticed a higher fuel usage (eg: from say 12l/100 to around 13l/100) result of having more grunt opportunity at hand.

Have just ordered a Bluetooth-enabled OBDII Scanners (Bluedriver) for my Android phone to capture live data. To date have been reading off gauges (RPM/MAP/MAF) and recording data (via speech) on phone_need to move with technology / know very little about Apps so will be a fun time. Hope I can get some comparative graphs happening.

Turbo Hotside.jpg
Louver_Bonnet.jpg
 

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@Bidja this is where my ECUTalk was invaluable to my studies of the ZD30 years ago with my Granddaughter sitting in the passenger seat taking notes, to later being able to hook it up to my laptop laptop and download pages of sreadsheets from every ECU feedback sensor.
 

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nissan
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Approx 6 months ago, I replaced my 600x300x76mm T&F TM cooler with same size Bar & Plate FM, removed the large bonnet scoop and fitted a rear facing louver panel _covered 600x300mm opening (facing towards windscreen). The heat that pours out of these louvers is surprising at idle after a 50km run. Must help with reducing adverse heat impact on induction piping and air box.. With this arrangement and heat shield between dump pipe and firewall, my wife no longer mentions how hot the cabin is. Win win.
This is very interesting, I have always thought that some sort of louvre setup similar to what you have, beside the standard scoop footprint I have would have to provide some help with heat dissipation, given it would be directly above one of the primary sources of that heat generation. Have never done anything because chopping the bonnet up on a hunch is not for me. My main concern is given how important the airflow paths are with engine temperature management introducing a new path may reduce those efficiencies. Interested in how your mod performs.👍👍
 

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nissan
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Approx 6 months ago, I replaced my 600x300x76mm T&F TM cooler with same size Bar & Plate FM, removed the large bonnet scoop and fitted a rear facing louver panel _covered 600x300mm opening (facing towards windscreen). The heat that pours out of these louvers is surprising at idle after a 50km run. Must help with reducing adverse heat impact on induction piping and air box.. With this arrangement and heat shield between dump pipe and firewall, my wife no longer mentions how hot the cabin is. Win win.

Colder intake air_My layman's understanding_Colder air, being denser, more air molecules and therefore more fuel is added=more pwr. Advice from others is appreciated (learning here)

Over the last couple of month, I have been doing back to back comparisons with using various boost control methods with and without VNT vac sol, and just in last few weeks have noticed with the dramatic drop in ambient temps from mid 20s down to mid teens (ignoring the chill factor), getting lower EGTs and ECT, but with colder air (denser) have noticed slightly higher MAF and seems to lug a bit more solid. Though as expected, have noticed a higher fuel usage (eg: from say 12l/100 to around 13l/100) result of having more grunt opportunity at hand.

Have just ordered a Bluetooth-enabled OBDII Scanners (Bluedriver) for my Android phone to capture live data. To date have been reading off gauges (RPM/MAP/MAF) and recording data (via speech) on phone_need to move with technology / know very little about Apps so will be a fun time. Hope I can get some comparative graphs happening.

View attachment 519711 View attachment 519712
Hey mate
Im not sure what state you are in but i do know in Vic the backwards louvers and backwards scoops are illegal and the heat/steam ends up on the windscreen and if you have a hose blow or oil leak it will also end up on the windscreen. So just keep that in mind.
Also be mindful that if you do get a steering line burst or major oil leak don't use your wipers and washers to try and clear the windscreen as it will only make it worse
 

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Discussion Starter #58
This is very interesting, I have always thought that some sort of louvre setup similar to what you have, beside the standard scoop footprint I have would have to provide some help with heat dissipation, given it would be directly above one of the primary sources of that heat generation. Have never done anything because chopping the bonnet up on a hunch is not for me. My main concern is given how important the airflow paths are with engine temperature management introducing a new path may reduce those efficiencies. Interested in how your mod performs.👍👍
I have not any pre or post install temp actuals, but from observation (even at idle), IMO the thermal escape would be of benefit to reduce the heat transfer into susceptible heat soak elements. Earlier in an attempt to reduce the in cab temp, I raised the rear of bonnet at hinges approx 8mm to capitalise on the negative pressure zone at base of windscreen_helped but now not needed(depends on TM cooler/scoop seal interface).
 

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I have not any pre or post install temp actuals, but from observation (even at idle), IMO the thermal escape would be of benefit to reduce the heat transfer into susceptible heat soak elements. Earlier in an attempt to reduce the in cab temp, I raised the rear of bonnet at hinges approx 8mm to capitalise on the negative pressure zone at base of windscreen_helped but now not needed(depends on TM cooler/scoop seal interface).
Raising the bonnet was a trick we used in motor racing to allow hot air to escape, all the Commodores at Bathurst did it one year, practised all week like that and on saturday scrutineers came down on them after final practise, a new rule had come in with no rearward facing gaps allowed for the reasons stated earlier by Millhouse88, no commodores finished in the top nine, the team I worked for was the first commodore home in 10th. Think that might have been the year of the letterbox grill.

On the note of base of windscreen that is a low pressure zone with the coolest air in the general location, on minis with webbers fitted that ran back through the dash we would open the area under the windscreen to suck in the coolest air we could.
 

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Nissan patrol GU
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I like the idea of the louvre also ,maybe if we could somehow if possible to channel the air from under bull bar bash plate onwards with air ducts just like the Supercars have to keep cooler engine bay temps for colder air flow around engine bay .
 
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