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Another Endless Air / Onboard Air installation

1613 Views 30 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  rgren2
G'day all. I have been considering this mod for some time, having been inspired by the older discussion here

onboard air , that goes back quite a way. Given that thread was started in 2007 I thought I would post my more recent experience.

It took me a long while to get my head around how it would all fit together- I know nothing about compressed air systems- the web page put together by the most excellent Grungle (Grungles Homepage) was essential reading. I read and re-read that page, and the thread already mentioned, many times before I felt I was ready to start.

The one thing I will say at the outset is, this was the most complicated DIY I have attempted yet, and it turned out to be far more expensive than the older threads and posts indicated. Maybe I'm doing it wrong lol.

Note: This is not a how-to, just advice for someone wanting to attempt this. refer to the above links for drawings, parts lists, etc. I will try and break it up into various sections to make this more readable. At the time of writing I have the project 90% completed, I don't have it running yet but hopefully will soon :D

Compressor: The first and most important part was finding the compressor to modify. In the older threads the Sanden SD508 compressors were apparently commonly available from wreckers; in 2023 I couldn't find one secondhand anywhere. Luckily the internet is full of 'em; $120 saw one (brand new) delivered to my door. Once I had that, I needed to mount it to my engine- as I had a silvertop I was able to use @OldMav 's custom brackets, which are a lot simpler than the ones required to mount the same compressor on a later model TD42.
Automotive tire Automotive engine gasket Motor vehicle Gas Automotive lighting


This worked really well, except I found that the given dimensions for the thickness of the bracket did not match my compressor- I had them made at 14mm thick and had to shim the lower rear bolt that secures the compressor to the custom bracket with a 1mm washer. No big deal. These brackets cost me about $200 to have them laser cut.

Compressor top view:
Gas Motor vehicle Automotive tire Electrical wiring Auto part


In the above pic, looking downwards past the injector pump, you can see the inlet and outlet are facing upwards, I was able to do this because my vac pump is on the alternator. I was sceptical as to whether the pipework would all fit in, given it is very close to the engine mount, but miraculously it did.

Piping: I opted for 1/2" stainless steel braided teflon hose for the outlet piping, as everything else is prone to getting a bit melty due to the heat. This stuff was very expensive (cost me about $300 for 3m), but I felt the advantage of being able to measure and cut it at home outweighed the advantage of having hydraulic hoses made up, given the engine was out of the bay and it was exceedingly difficult to measure hose lengths accurately.

The next problem was joining the teflon hose to the compressor; I was able to source a 1/2" 90deg barbed fitting to suit the compressor outlet, and a 5/8" 90deg barbed fitting to suit the suction side, from old mate's "just in case" parts bin at a local auto aircon shop. Both of these parts were not commonly used on modern compressors I was told, as the crimp-on collar was a separate piece (usually aircon fittings are one piece now). I also learned that the thread pitch on aircon fittings is completely different to anything else, so hydraulic, metric, SAE threads don't work. With my plain barb and teflon hose, a couple of o-clips were all that were required to attach the hose and I was able to cut it to exactly the right length, once I got the engine back in the car.

Inlet piping I opted for 5/8" heater hose, as it was cheap and seemed to be thick enough. Hope it doesn't collapse on itself but as I said, it was cheap; if it doesn't work I'll have to do something else. The local Pirtek guy said I was limited in hose choice in the 5/8" size.

Pressure switch: I opted for the Condor MR2 pressure switch, because that is what everyone was using in the older threads, but in hindsight I should have bought a much cheaper and simpler pressure switch such as this one on eBay:
Rectangle Font Circle Number Parallel


The Condor cost me about $90 from eBay, and at my local air compressor shop I found the same unit for $60-something. That gave me the sh*ts.

I mounted the Condor on a bit of 3mm flat bar using the fuel filter housing bolts, as others before me had done:
Yellow Wood Gas Motor vehicle Machine


In the pic above we are looking at the back of it (i.e. from the engine side). The gauge faces the outside of the car. This mount was really easy to do. I hope when I put the bonnet back on there is enough height clearance :rolleyes:. (Edit: there is.)

The rest of the fittings: This bit took me ages to get my head around. Here is what I came up with:
Font Automotive tire Gas Bullet Automotive exhaust


The bloke at my local compressor/air tool shop was most helpful in helping me get the right bits. Also the barbed fitting marked "to tank" in the above picture I ended up replacing with a 90deg barb facing downwards, as otherwise the hose would be heading straight to the firewall.

Mounting the fittings: I made up a bracket, secured to the fuel filter housing bracket using the original bolt holes, and secured the assembly to it with a worm drive clamp. The bracket isn't painted yet in this pic:

Wood Motor vehicle Font Gas Bumper


Installed:

Automotive fuel system Motor vehicle Gas Auto part Automotive exterior
Light Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive exterior Automotive fuel system
Motor vehicle Automotive fuel system Gas Auto part Metal


In the above pics you can see how it bolts on top of the fuel filter housing bracket, and the whole assembly is very nicely tucked in out of the way under that brake thing. As it turned out the nipple thing on the fitting for the unloader valve was centred exactly where one of the oil filters needed to be... so I unbolted my bracket and just zip tied the assembly out of the way. Ah, it was so close to being perfect...


To be continued...
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Part 2

Air tank: As I have a wagon I was severely limited on where I could put this. I followed the lead of others in that old thread and put it under the driver's seat on the outside of the chassis rail, it's really the only spot it will fit. I used a 9L aluminium tank (about $250), steel ones were a lot cheaper and next time I would probably go that way.

Automotive tire Automotive fuel system Automotive exhaust Tire Exhaust system


In the above pic, we are looking towards the front of the vehicle. I had to put the drain valve on the side, not the bottom of the tank, by rotating the whole tank., This was so it didn't get snapped off the first time I ran over a rock or log. To actually make it drain, I used some 2-part epoxy to glue a section of thin copper pipe inside the 1/4" BSP brass nipple the valve is attached to, so it protruded about 6" inside the tank. I tightened the nipple up, marked the bottom, unscrewed it, and bent the pipe down so it would be touching the bottom of the tank when it was fully tightened. Took a few goes but I think it will work.

I had to modify the mounts the tank came with so it would sit flat against the floor pan, to maximise clearance. I removed the driver's seat and carpet, welded the bolts to the mount, used grease on the ends of the bolts to find where the holes needed to be, then drilled and bolted them. I only ended up with one extra hole, too! Bolt holes were sealed up with silicone.

It sits slightly higher than the chassis rail now (only by mm), but it needs a plate or bash guard as it is vulnerable there... as you can see, looking at the sill to the right of the tank.


Attaching the hose: I was able to crimp all of the o-clips onto the hoses in situ, despite the tight access- one disadvantage of this style of hose clamp is that you cannot tighten or loosen the BSP side of the fitting, once the hose is on, without twisting the entire hose. The teflon hose is moderately flexible, too, so I was able to use a 90deg barb off the front of the tank and run the hose inside the front shock mount along the chassis, well out of the way of anything.

Automotive tire Bumper Bicycle part Gas Engineering


What's left: All I have to do now is:
1. Run hose to rear of vehicle and mount Nitto fitting
2. Source a longer drive belt and hope the pulley line up (power steering, compressor, crank)...
3. Wire up the condor to my dash switch.

Incidentally if anyone has any good ideas on how to do the last one, I'm all ears. The instructions that come with the Condor are for 240V and I haven't figured it out yet. (y)
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When I dropped the engine with new compressor into the engine bay, there was very little clearance for the compressor against the chassis rail on the driver's side, in fact the rear of the compressor was just touching a mount welded to the chassis rail for what I think is a brake line. Also the lines for the power steering cooler where just touching, as well:

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Vehicle Automotive exhaust Automotive lighting
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Font Auto part Metal


In these pics you cannot see the brake line bracket, all I did was cut the corner off the bracket in situ with a grinder and that gave me a couple of mm clearance at the rear of the compressor (it was too rigid to bend out of the way and there was no space to swing a hammer at it). You can see the power steering lines touching the front of the compressor... I deleted one of the hard lines as it had barbed joiners on each end, and replaced it with flexible hose, and bent the other hard line so it runs over the top of the power steering box (green line). It was reattached using the original clamps along the crossmember. I had to bend the other end as well, but there was already a flexible hose joiner there so I just replaced it with a shorter one.

Re: the crossmember, in the earlier threads it was mentioned that some of the engine/crossmember configurations did not permit the compressor to be mounted without modifying the crossmember itself (i.e. bashing it in so there was clearance available). As mine is a 2000 Series 1, formerly ZD30, fortunately I did not have to do this.

So it all fits in, I didn't get pics of the suction and discharge hoses but the are well and truly clear of the engine mount which is great. More to come.
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The next problem was joining the teflon hose to the compressor; I was able to source a 1/2" 90deg barbed fitting to suit the compressor outlet, and a 5/8" 90deg barbed fitting to suit the suction side, from old mate's "just in case" parts bin at a local auto aircon shop. Both of these parts were not commonly used on modern compressors I was told, as the crimp-on collar was a separate piece (usually aircon fittings are one piece now). I also learned that the thread pitch on aircon fittings is completely different to anything else, so hydraulic, metric, SAE threads don't work. With my plain barb and teflon hose, a couple of o-clips were all that were required to attach the hose and I was able to cut it to exactly the right length, once I got the engine back in the car.

Inlet piping I opted for 5/8" heater hose, as it was cheap and seemed to be thick enough. Hope it doesn't collapse on itself but as I said, it was cheap; if it doesn't work I'll have to do something else. The local Pirtek guy said I was limited in hose choice in the 5/8" size.
I used R5 air brake hose for both inlet and outlet lines when I installed my Endless Air setup. If it's good enough to work under the bonnet of a Kenworth, it should cope with occasionally pumping up a few tyres. The biggest hassle was that by using reusable fittings (so we could install them in situ as crimp fitting wouldn't have fitted through some places we ran the hose) -- jeeze they need a lot of effort to tighten!

IIRC we used JIC as the "standard" fitting and everything else (compressor, tank, hoses, etc) used a suitable fitting to adapt it to JIC.
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I used R5 air brake hose for both inlet and outlet lines when I installed my Endless Air setup. If it's good enough to work under the bonnet of a Kenworth, it should cope with occasionally pumping up a few tyres. The biggest hassle was that by using reusable fittings (so we could install them in situ as crimp fitting wouldn't have fitted through some places we ran the hose) -- jeeze they need a lot of effort to tighten!

IIRC we used JIC as the "standard" fitting and everything else (compressor, tank, hoses, etc) used a suitable fitting to adapt it to JIC.
Yeah they're tricky to crimp on in tight places, you need to squeeze the bejeesus out of those o-clip pliers! At least once they're on they feel really secure and tight.
The reusable fittings screw together. Outer nut goes over the hose, barb goes inside the hose, then just do up the two halves.

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The reusable fittings screw together. Outer nut goes over the hose, barb goes inside the hose, then just do up the two halves.

Damn, that would have been handy.
Damn, that would have been handy.
As long as you have another person to hold the other spanner. Those fittings are TIGHT! It's not so bad if you can clamp them in a vice, but tightening the fittings in/on/under the vehicle was a real effort.
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Looks great, that's a good amount of air storage too!
That braided hose looks like it may rub against the fuel hose from the filter. Might be worth using some clips to separate them, or chuck a sleeve over the fuel hose.

I've been through a few of the Sanden 508 compressors. Like most things they hate mud, but at the price I always have a spare in the garage!
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Looks great, that's a good amount of air storage too!
It really isn't. I use a similar tank in my setup because I'd already bought and installed it because I didn't know any better at the time ("If I knew then what I knew now," -- how many times have I said THAT about my 4WD/camping setup? :rolleyes:), but from an air storage point of view it's basically worthless.

The Endless Air setups for the Patrol (that I have seen) vary from 5.5 CFM to 10 CFM.

1 CFM = 28.3 L.

So a 9L air tank holds less than 1/3 CFM. Which is 2-11 seconds worth of pumping, depending on compressor size.

Unfortunately for our usage (which is frankly casual, rather than a major part of the vehicle's purpose), by the time you get a tank worth having fitted to an Endless Air setup, it's massive. If you run air tools from it for your work, great.

But to air up tyres occasionally, it is unnecessary and just going to take up a lot of space and weight that could be better put to other uses for what we do.
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It really isn't. I use a similar tank in my setup because I'd already bought and installed it because I didn't know any better at the time ("If I knew then what I knew now," -- how many times have I said THAT about my 4WD/camping setup? :rolleyes:), but from an air storage point of view it's basically worthless.

The Endless Air setups for the Patrol (that I have seen) vary from 5.5 CFM to 10 CFM.

1 CFM = 28.3 L.

So a 9L air tank holds less than 1/3 CFM. Which is 2-11 seconds worth of pumping, depending on compressor size.

Unfortunately for our usage (which is frankly casual, rather than a major part of the vehicle's purpose), by the time you get a tank worth having fitted to an Endless Air setup, it's massive. If you run air tools from it for your work, great.

But to air up tyres occasionally, it is unnecessary and just going to take up a lot of space and weight that could be better put to other uses for what we do.
I’ve always loved the idea of having an engine driven air compressor but I think you’ve nailed it on the head here. The biggest issue with air systems, especially ones that are primarily used for tyre inflation, is storage capacity.

With air you have one of two options; a massive air tank, or a smaller tank with higher pressure. I did the math a long time ago and decided that I don’t have enough space anywhere on my Patrol to fit a tank large enough to inflate 4 tyres at the operating pressure of an onboard air system.

I also looked at using SCUBA cylinders which I’ve seen done before and can easily hold up to 250bar, but they are friggin’ heavy and impractical because you need to remove them to have them refilled. You can’t generate that sort of pressure with a converted automotive a/c compressor.

What I would like is an electric compressor (and storage tank) that can generate and hold, say around 50bar. You can then let the compressor do it’s thing filling a tank over a longer period of time and then have enough air to at least partially inflate the tyres, but I haven’t come across a high pressure 12V compressor yet.
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Onboard air systems are a handy thing to have. Just flick a switch, and air is easily available without having to pop the bonnet. External air outlets make it that much better, because you don't need to leave a door open to access air (which I have seen). Also quicker on the packup (which is good in inclement weather), especially as you don't need to wait for the compressor to be cool enough to put away.

Engine driven compressors are definitely a good thing. As you saw when we aired up for the trip back to Licola, I was done airing up pretty quickly, and that was only running the compressor at half its rated speed.

Large capacity storage is impractical for most of us, so it really is better to just not bother. A manifold is a more compact way to mount pressure relief valves, pressure switches, etc.; and to tap off air pressure to lockers (if needed).

The only reason to fit a small air tank is as a trap/drain point, and frankly they're mediocre at that job.
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@seth.jxl , @dkril , @AndrieK , good discussion. I'm not fussed on the air capacity of the tank, I plan on only using the air system when the engine is running anyway. From all that I have read the system should be good for that (better than 12v compressor anyway). Time will tell! :) I haven't finished it yet, school holidays just get in the road of projects...
One of the main reasons I attempted this was because I like attempting things.
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A little off topic, grandson is a driver in the army, the Bushmaster has endless air and apparently a very large storage tank, if a tyre gets deflated, they can dump the air into that tyre to facilitate an escape. Changing the wheel gets to be a problem as they need a special seal for the air system.
A little off topic, grandson is a driver in the army, the Bushmaster has endless air and apparently a very large storage tank, if a tyre gets deflated, they can dump the air into that tyre to facilitate an escape. Changing the wheel gets to be a problem as they need a special seal for the air system.
I did a short stint at BAE Systems back in ‘09~’10. We built MRAP vehicles for the US Army. They all had central tyre inflation systems to adjust tyre pressures but they had run-flat inserts to keep them going in an emergency when they have a deflated tyre.

The CTIS system ran off the same air compressor on the Cummins engine used for the brakes, with a similar sized aux air tank. Because they can drive on the RFI with a fully deflated tyre there’s no need to dump a massive amount of air into the tyre in a relatively short time. And more often than not, the reason for the sudden deflated tyre also prevented them from reinflating it, i.e. it had a massive hole in it.
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You are the best!

I wanted to do this years ago and remembered Grungles did it and read that so many times and was like thats to hard!
Untill recently i did a search again and still found the grungles page was up and read it just last night and was like this is pretty simple i have most the stuff other then the AC comp its self and did some googling and it lead me here to this set up!

Well done knuckles! so how has it been performing?

cheers,
budgie
You are the best!

I wanted to do this years ago and remembered Grungles did it and read that so many times and was like thats to hard!
Untill recently i did a search again and still found the grungles page was up and read it just last night and was like this is pretty simple i have most the stuff other then the AC comp its self and did some googling and it lead me here to this set up!

Well done knuckles! so how has it been performing?

cheers,
budgie
The endless air compressor is nice for it's speed (as some on the Fraser island trip noticed), but the onboard part of the system is more of a gain.

Just being able to flick a switch, grab a hose and inflator, and you're off and racing is much easier than raising the bonnet, connecting to the battery, and then waiting for things to cool down before you can pack up.

Thankfully you can install an onboard system, and then upgrade to an endless air compressor at a later date.
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You are the best!

I wanted to do this years ago and remembered Grungles did it and read that so many times and was like thats to hard!
Untill recently i did a search again and still found the grungles page was up and read it just last night and was like this is pretty simple i have most the stuff other then the AC comp its self and did some googling and it lead me here to this set up!

Well done knuckles! so how has it been performing?

cheers,
budgie
Hey Budgie,

Well It's not quite finished yet, most of my projects take ages due to working away and family commitments when I'm at home, it's a pain. I have further updates, I will post below...
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Update: Well I managed to spend a bit more time on this, working out how to wire in the Condor MDR2 pressure switch took me ages (I'm no electrician ha ha!). For those of you who may wish to attempt this, instead of using a simpler 12v pressure switch as I suggested earlier, here we go.

This is a pic looking at the top of the condor, inside (top cover removed). The side marked LINE is for your power source, i.e. pos and neg, and MOTOR is for the compressor or whatever you want to switch.

My setup is:
Dash switch -> relay ->pressure switch

So on the LINE side, I used a negative to the battery (not visible in pic), and a positive wire from the relay output.

On the MOTOR side, I joined one of the terminals to the single wire coming from the Sanden compressor. The other terminal on the MOTOR side seems not required in this case.

Light Motor vehicle Gas Auto part Audio equipment


Here is a wiring diagram from the datasheet, with my comments in red:

Rectangle Font Parallel Engineering Auto part


And it worked! Well the switch/relay/power worked anyway; it triggered the clutch on the compressor no worries.

After 4 separate trips to town, I was finally able to find a belt that would fit around the crank pulley, fan pulley, power steering pulley and compressor pulley- the size is 13A1350. Although I do suspect the pulley on my compressor is designed for an 11A (narrower) belt, the 13A hasn't come off yet as most of it sits in the groove on the pulley. Problem is all the other pulleys are 13A.

Once I had the belt on and the switch working, I was able to power it up! The gauge showed pressure building up, but I had a problem with frothy blue oil leaking out from the unloader valve on the pressure switch. I suspect the problem is that the compressor was supplied full of aircon oil, it blocked up the one-way valve in the airline (I removed the valve and cleaned it out, behind the spring widget inside was full of oil) and so all the air had nowhere to go but the wrong way out the unloader valve.

I cleaned it and reassembled it, but ran out of time to test before I had to pack up. The compressor also makes a fair old knocking noice, not unlike a 12v compressor, but noisier than an a/c compressor on a car should be. So long as it works I don't care, we'll see how it goes.

More to come.
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Wouldn't it be better to have the pressure switch on the control side of the relay, rather than the pressure switch doing the actual power switching?

Might not matter for an endless, as they don't draw much power, but for a 12v it would matter more.
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