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Was known as JT54_Y61 GU IV 08CRD Wag ST
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Discussion Starter #21
-no dip in boost
-more linear torque
-egt the same as 3 needles +tillx
But!:if I drive uphill in 4 gear at 1500 rpm (sotto coppia)egt are higher about 50 degrees cause boost is at 5/7 psi instead 10/12psi .
Gauges changed my way to drive...
Thanks for the feedback.

Try closing needle #2 a little (small increments/notch at a time). Check spool needle#3 (lever touch vane limit stop)_should be OK for small adjustment now.
 

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Ah, now you have got me searching for another needle valve. What ones have you used?

Thinking about the Dawes or Tillix type spring valves, I wonder if there is something out there similar but with a very small needle type valve seat and very soft adjustment spring. For the needle valve 2 type bleed, in this application it might actually be beneficial to use a valve which starts to open at a set low pressure but is very slow bleed.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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drop in boost uphill not surprising if the “egr management effect” by the ÉCU is not suppressed by a remap.
if you have no remap I suggest you keep the ÉCU outside the loop. and go for the 4 valves arrangement.
I am considering selling on the market automatic limp killers, and adaptable VNT control products. be patient !
 

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Nissan patrol y61 3000 2007 swb
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drop in boost uphill not surprising if the “egr management effect” by the ÉCU is not suppressed by a remap.
if you have no remap I suggest you keep the ÉCU outside the loop. and go for the 4 valves arrangement.
I am considering selling on the market automatic limp killers, and adaptable VNT control products. be patient !
I know this issue but wanted to try...


4 valve arrangement is working very well for me (without vac sol) was a long searching to find the best compromise (have many .csv data collected)and have written every single “notch”change.

i can reverse configuration in 20 minute have done multiple hoses one for bidjas and one for the 4 valve.nothing extraordinary...only “plug and play” and re set valve.
I am considering selling on the market automatic limp killers, and adaptable VNT control products. be patient !
you have a customer!

have one question:what is “vn turbo sv1” ?
Is it the egr swirl?

was thinking to remap but don’t trust my local tuner...
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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VN turbo SV1 is the %value of the pwm control command sent by the ECU to the solenoid.
By drawing a graph vs RPM together with MAF voltage/value, You will see how the ECU manages the turbo vanes, and how this control command is "noisy".
You will also see how the ECU opens the vanes when changing gear to avoid turbo surge and many other features...
I spent a full year to analyse it all.
You will also see
  • the pwm control command changing when the ECU opens and closes the EGR.
  • How the ECU manages the vanes to keep the MAF value under 4V ( and if you were able to have MAP like I do with my electronics ), the effect on boost.
... etc etc

All the things I have taken into account and fixed in my hw and sw.
cheers neighbour.
 

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Tuners do not act on the turbo management as far I undertstand, nor the firmware. They 'just' change maps.
I believe a lot is to be gained by managing the vanes properly.

My next upgrade will be to take control of the IP and the fueling/advance. I do it slowly and step by step as it is far more complex. Motor engineers spend thousands of hours on the dyno and in driving tests and many parameters have to be taken into account. But believe me, when VNT is properly managed, with lots of air getting in, the result is already quite interesting. The ECU firmware sees more air, and therefore adds more fuel, apparently limited by a torque "limitation" map. That's why direct IP control will help, as I will be able to get the IP to add more fuel when I know I have plenty of air available. But I need to develop some more softtware tools.
Fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Ah, now you have got me searching for another needle valve. What ones have you used?
Needle #1 Tillix, Needle #2 Dawes, Needle #3 Tognella(Italy)

Notes:
1. Found that the needle valves, supplied by Tillix, Dawes and Tognella(Italy) are all 2 way flow so needed the non return valve on vac side of spool needle #3.
2. Best to have graduations marked on Needles #1&2 to observe incremental changes of adjustment.
3. Needle #2 _Early VNT vane opening associated with rate of boost rise. Adjustment will impact on EGTs / spool / cruise boost.
Geordie, can run this configuration without Needle #2 (+ve air bleed from start of boost rise).
Initially Needle # 2 was there to provide for a means to compare effect of closing off pressure bleed with the N/C solenoid to provide 2 levels for control of vanes, manage sudden opening and to reduce dip in MAP/MAF and provided greater spool/boost while solid hauling (don't bother now).
It will function fine without Needle #2 but does provide for more sensitive adjustment (vane opening early), and can see the impact on cruise boost, EGTs + induction noise with Needle #2 adjustment and minimal change to target max boost set with Needle#1.
Maybe influenced by the fact, running FMIC with Needle #1 (ref) is adjacent to MAP sensor (cold side/near inlet manifold) and Needle #2 (ref) is located hot side (close to turbo out). Lag(appears minimal), but pressure drop (differential) across cooler may be a driver but does provide for more accurate control.
The non return valve that I use is one that I had in the box (supplied by Diesel Smart):

526052


Thinking about the Dawes or Tillix type spring valves, I wonder if there is something out there similar but with a very small needle type valve seat and very soft adjustment spring. For the needle valve 2 type bleed, in this application it might actually be beneficial to use a valve which starts to open at a set low pressure but is very slow bleed.
Maybe a "detent ball and spring" type valve.

General Comment re: EGTs from earlier post (ref). Find folk are getting hung up on higher EGTs (how high is high):unsure:

Regarding CRD EGTs: when stock, I would go 680C hauling(yes pretty high but that was really working), these days same condition approx 550C.Today, cruise hwy run 320-400C (50-70% eng load) hauling hit 500. Worked it solid in 5th gear long haul (nearly 1km) held 1800RPM near 90% eng load / held 550C.
Find that my EGTs hauling will hold stable say 500 or @ 550 and performs great (keeps hanging on).

As @OldMav tells us that air density is very important and you dont make power with low EGT, its not about lowering EGT its about stable EGT at peak load. Another positive comment that I take on board:

Just remember you dont make power with low EGT, its not about lowering EGT its about stable EGT at peak load. That being 550 post turbine or 750C pre turbine. If you could have 550C for every Rpm valve that would be ideal. If your EGT stabilizes at 500C post turbine at peak power then that is a very nice safe compromise. Any lower is wasting exhaust temp expansion to drive the turbine. More temp equals more gas volume that can be used for turbine drive to get more compressor volume, that isn't boost value either.
 

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I need to get back to trialling these concepts. I have been held back with some health issues and complications with one if my young fellas.

I've tried all the above mentioned concepts except the latest one John (Bidja) describes at the start if this thread and done some data logging for each. Unfortunately I have twi lots of identical data labelled different configurations so I'm not quite sure that I got it all perfect right!

Currently I'm running the 4 valve system. My only complaint is i cant get my cruise boost under about 14 psi at 100. I'd really like it to settle back closer to 12psi.

@Phdv61 I'd be very interested in your electronic vane controller. Thought of enlisting my 16yo son to help me build something similar but I haven't the time to invest at the moment
 

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@trev zd30 I did not forget your help a while ago and the parcel you sent me to help my understanding of those 'magic boxes'.
I am running short of components, and ordered some more today.
To be honnest, the complexity is not so much in the harware itself, but the software.
I spent a hell of a long time to get there and develop all the tools which I believe are required to 'see what you do'.
 

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@trev zd30 I did not forget your help a while ago and the parcel you sent me to help my understanding of those 'magic boxes'.
I am running short of components, and ordered some more today.
To be honnest, the complexity is not so much in the harware itself, but the software.
I spent a hell of a long time to get there and develop all the tools which I believe are required to 'see what you do'.
My last patrol had a diesel gas system on it. I managed to get hold of the program to change maps and settings (its good to have mates in the industry). Loved the challenge and the ability to tweake the maps to how I wanted it. Creating the hardware is totally foreign to me but I'd love to create a map to suit my patrol, and me!
 
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