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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Probably not the best time to put pen to paper (was just having numerous beers with my neighbour and telling him about the diversity expressed in the "suggestions to stop war in the middle east" thread), but it struck me there are so many educated opinions on religion and origins of life etc expressed on this thread, I thought an extrapolation might be in order. Now, I believe in a higher power/God, as many cultures do, but how did we get here? and I don't mean evolution, that's a no brainer.

I am not religious, atheist or agnostic but the thought crossed my mind, forget the bible/koran, how did we get here, physics is based on a few principles but the one fact that fascinates me is can you get something from nothing, the universe cannot have been here for all time, so somewhere along the line we got "something from nothing" and this goes against every current physics principle. What are your opinions?
 

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Patrol 2.8 TD
nissan patrol
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Please explain this statement.

"the universe cannot have been here for all time"

Has this been proven?
 

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nissan patrol
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My question was allways, if there was nothing there in the begining. how can there be nothing, it was explained to me that it was just darkness. Isn't darkness somthing tho? weather you belive in the bibles version or the big bang theory. both ideas start with 'nothing' then somthing apeard to make the universe weather it was gas for the bang, or a superficial? being.
 

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The nutty professor
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well you saw my theory on the big bang theory in the other thread, basicly i dont agree with it as it doesnt seem logical, my theory is that there has always been a universe and the universe is made up of matter (planets , stars, dust etc..)all matter has mass and mass attracts (gravity), we now believe that at the center of most galaxys is a big black hole which just acts like a big vacume cleaner consuming everything that gets close , its what holds our galaxy in its shape slowly spiraling around and around , its like a big whirlpool sucking everything into the middle ( the black hole)

my theory is that everything will eventually come back to a single black hole due to the gravitational forces , this may take trillions and trillions and bogteenzillions of years (or less??), once everthing is back in a big black hole the preasures in the middle probly will reach a criticle mass of sorts which creates a big bang so to speak, this process happens over and over

thats my theory anyway , i dont believe that there was nothing then suddenly something , that just doesnt make any sense
 

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"Toxic Personality"
nissan
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OK. . . matter and energy are exchangeable commodities at an estimable rate. we know matter has not always existed.(on earth and our solar system at least) and its a safe bet from our current understanding of physics that its the same story for all sorts of matter everywhere.

So. . . . you need energy + matter to produce more energy ie: an atom bomb(by converting the matter into energy with the energy you had to start with. -you end up with less matter and more energy doing this), and you cant make matter from nothing without energy. ergo. . . energy has always existed. -now bear with me.

so in the beginning. . . . no matter of any kind as we know it anywhere. -just energy. . . . ooodles of it!

now. . . . without matter, energy is nonfluctuating. -means it never gets more never gets less. so. . . . if there was only energy it could never react with itself naturally to start a cataclysm and form matter.

both things need a catalyst to motivate a change from matter to energy, or energy to matter. this is where the big bang theory, evolution fall down for me. nature is impossible according to natural law. -thus i believe in God.
 

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Enemy of Reality
nissan 09 gu patrol
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time is relative
I think that is his point ;)

Me thinks its easiest to explain it like this - in the beginning there was (a?) conciousness. This /these conciousness / es decided to manifest itself(selves) physically and as such gave rise to matter. This matter being part of an original conciosness(es) had a concience. Hence why we, as made of this matter, question our origin.

There will never be 100% proof of design v's chance. Ever. We will have to die to find out if our 'souls' actually exist, or live forever to see the end of the universe... which also will never happen...

And BTW, there is not 'a' black hole at the centre of our galaxy. There are many spread throughout the milky way. We roatate around a centrepoint due to there being more mass there - as is the nature of clusters of 'stuff'.
 

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bit cold out it seems
nissan
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Please explain this statement.

"the universe cannot have been here for all time"

Has this been proven?
Yeh I agree with you there: I argue that Yes it has to have been (in various forms with no definite time frame)

Basic physics which they have found do indeed apply in outer space is that matter cannot be created out of nothing.

So for a universe to have existed it must have had some sort of matter to begin with.

I really doubt humans will hang around long enough on the evolutionary time scale to ever figure it out.

or even figure out if there is only one universe and how it fits into the scheme of things.

Religion can also be disproven in most of its forms by one very simple word: Dinosaurs.
 

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nissan patrol
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havnt you seen Men in Black, there is heeps of universes, theres one on orions belt lol
 

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I love these questions.


tell me

How can space just NEVER end. Think it about it hard. Never end. Everything has to end yea?
 

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The nutty professor
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:D
I think that is his point ;)



And BTW, there is not 'a' black hole at the centre of our galaxy. There are many spread throughout the milky way. We roatate around a centrepoint due to there being more mass there - as is the nature of clusters of 'stuff'.
watch them words there young man , me thinks you need to brush up on your astronomy studies, the latest info is that we have found the center of the milky way and although we cant see the black hole , we can see multiple suns (stars) circling a point in space very rapidly

:D

as for not being a way to prove "chance" i dissagree , you can always prove chance, it just comes down to odds of probability, and given how big the universe is, the "chance" that something will happen is quite good
 

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nissan patrol
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There is organic material throughout space, it traves and finds suitable places to start.

There is millions of planets suitable for holding life. Im not sure if intelligent life else where could reach earth due to time and distance, even if they could im sure theres better land resources to go to if they had the techology.

Its just to far for travel even at speed of light over the life of a human to explore.
 

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:D
watch them words there young man , me thinks you need to brush up on your astrological studies, the latest info is that we have found the center of the milky way and although we cant see the black hole , we can see multiple suns (stars) circling a point in space very rapidly

:D
Did you mean astronomy studies? Man this is going to be one hell of an interesting thread. Sorry for saying hell. :D
Good one its a Ford not a Nissan.
truck
 

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GU8 CRD
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The problem with the whole diety theory is that if said diety made the universe and all within it who the **** created the diety. Then who the **** created the diety that created the diety. Rinse and repeat.
 

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GU8 CRD
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And besides, if there was nothing then there would be nothing in all directions for an infinite distance. The universe consists primarily of nothing extending, for all intents and purposes, an infinite distance.
 

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The nutty professor
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Did you mean astronomy studies? Man this is going to be one hell of an interesting thread. Sorry for saying hell. :D
Good one its a Ford not a Nissan.
truck
LOL my bad , it sounded good in my head for some reason , well it still is related to stars isnt it
 
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