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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys

I'm trying to upgrade my brakes on my Nissan Patrol Gu 1999 model TB45E.

I cannot find an upgrade kit from anyone. Better rotors and pads, YES!

But bigger rotors and callipers, NO!

In my quest I found out that the same model/year patrol in the 4.8L engine has bigger callipers and rotors on the front and they bolt straight on to my model 4.5L. Plus I need to change the Brake master cylinder.

Does anyone know the size difference between the two rotors, Diameter and thickness etc....

Or better still does anyone know of any companies that sell upgrade callipers/rotor kits for my model?

Regards Ed.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Hi Guys

I'm trying to upgrade my brakes on my Nissan Patrol Gu 1999 model TB45E.

I cannot find an upgrade kit from anyone. Better rotors and pads, YES!

But bigger rotors and callipers, NO!

In my quest I found out that the same model/year patrol in the 4.8L engine has bigger callipers and rotors on the front and they bolt straight on to my model 4.5L. Plus I need to change the Brake master cylinder.

Does anyone know the size difference between the two rotors, Diameter and thickness etc....

Or better still does anyone know of any companies that sell upgrade callipers/rotor kits for my model?

Regards Ed.
We know the rotors are but are you sure the calipers are bigger on the 4.8? I put RDA dimpled and slotted rotors on my ZD30 and the 4.8 pads I had (softer than the ZD30 ones) fitted straight into my std ZD30 calipers. Great mod for me BTW, made a hell of a difference, gives a progressive feeling.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We know the rotors are but are you sure the calipers are bigger on the 4.8? I put RDA dimpled and slotted rotors on my ZD30 and the 4.8 pads I had (softer than the ZD30 ones) fitted straight into my std ZD30 calipers. Great mod for me BTW, made a hell of a difference, gives a progressive feeling.
Hey G.

Pretty sure :D

If you have bigger rotors then you would need bigger calipers to reach down from the same mounting position and clamping pressure would need to be greater?

I've just brought 2 - 4.8L calipers from the wreckers. When I take the brake system apart I'll have a definitive answer. If I remember to take photos, I'll post them too.

So, rotor diameter size on the 4.5L versus the 4.8L do you know the sizing?

Regards Ed.
 

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We know the rotors are but are you sure the calipers are bigger on the 4.8? I put RDA dimpled and slotted rotors on my ZD30 and the 4.8 pads I had (softer than the ZD30 ones) fitted straight into my std ZD30 calipers. Great mod for me BTW, made a hell of a difference, gives a progressive feeling.
All the pads are the same shape, but the 4.8's are thinner to allow for the thicker rotors.
 

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I just did a brake pad and rotor change yesterday on my 4.5L and the front calipers on it where bloody huge, if the 4.8 has bigger calipers they must be massive.
 

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So, rotor diameter size on the 4.5L versus the 4.8L do you know the sizing?
From the Max Ellery manual:

4.5 front rotors are 306mm OD x 32mm thick
4.5 front pad thickness is 12mm
4.5 front caliper bore is 48.1mm
4.5 master cylinder bore is 25.4mm

4.8 front rotors are 316mm OD x 34mm thick
4.8 front pad thickness is 10mm
4.8 front caliper bore is 51.1mm
4.8 master cylinder bore is 26.9mm

Doesn't seem like much difference, until you need to stop.
It's like chalk and cheese then.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
From the Max Ellery manual:

4.5 front rotors are 306mm OD x 32mm thick
4.5 front pad thickness is 12mm
4.5 front caliper bore is 48.1mm
4.5 master cylinder bore is 25.4mm

4.8 front rotors are 316mm OD x 34mm thick
4.8 front pad thickness is 10mm
4.8 front caliper bore is 51.1mm
4.8 master cylinder bore is 26.9mm

Doesn't seem like much difference, until you need to stop.
It's like chalk and cheese then.
Well Done Geoff :D
I just found out about the rotors sizing today but you covered the lot.
Very nice Mate. Thanx for the info.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
4.5 Front Rotor Specs:
Specifications
Vent - Vented
Diameter - 306
Height - 47
Thickness - 32
Min Thickness - 30
Centre Hole Dia - 109
Bolt Holes -6

4.5 Rear Rotor Specs:
Specifications
Vent - Vented
Diameter - 315
Height - 80
Thickness - 18
Min Thickness - 16
Centre Hole Dia - 111
Bolt Holes - 6

DBA 622S 4x4 Survival Series T2 Slot – Rear 4.5L
DBA 4622S 4x4 Survival 4000 Series T3 Slot - Rear 4.5L

4.8 Front Rotor Specs:
Specifications
Vent - Vented
Diameter - 316
Height - 47
Thickness - 34
Min Thickness - 32
Centre Hole Dia - 109
Bolt Holes - 6

4.8 Rear Rotor Specs:
Specifications
Vent - Vented
Diameter - 330
Height - 89
Thickness - 18
Min Thickness - 16
Centre Hole Dia - 111
Bolt Holes - 6

DBA 698S 4x4 Survival Series T2 Slot – Front 4.8L
DBA 4698S 4x4 Survival 4000 series T3 Slot – Front 4.8L

NOTE* From what I have learned, 4.8L rotors are incompatible to fit on to 4.5L rears as the park brake set up is different.
 

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so if you were to change your current brakes to the 4.8 ones. Would you just need to get 4.8 rotors, calipers and pads. Pull your old stuff off and the larger stuff will bolt straight on?? Im after some better brakes in my TD as well. Obviously to change the fronts isnt as straight forward as the rear but better brakes is worth it

Cheers
 

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I am thinking of changing my front 4.2 ute calipers touchdown 4.8 s and get new rotors and pads my question is are the backing plates the same or will I need 4.8 backing plates as well
Thanks Oscar
 

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To upgrade the front brakes on a TB45 you need to change
Rotors
Calipers
Pads
Backing Plates.

Rear not doable unless you change the complete rear diff and whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Brake upgrade

Oscar and Leone: By the backing plate, do you mean the wind deflector?

large round plate on the inside of the disc/rotor with a little square shape groove that directs air to cool the rotors?

If so, No.

Well not on mine anyway. Mine had about 20mm clearance from the bottom of the rotor and the new rotors are only 10mm bigger.


timmy_shep:. The 4.8L front calipers bolt straight on after taking off the 4.5L calipers (front only) but that's where most of your braking is so that's cool. Rears you leave the calipers alone.

Then you get bigger rotors, basically 10mm bigger than the ones you just took off (front only).

Interestingly enough Bendix list code for 4.5L or 4.8L are the same part number for the fronts? Bendix advised their Heavy Duty pads over their FWD/SUV pads.

You also need to get a NEW (don't bother going cheap and looking at wreckers on something as important as brakes) Brake Master Cylinder for the 4.8L. Patrol a Part Lilydale Victoria have them for $260 (new genuine) or you can get it from Nissan for $500 something?

After some research (but haven't tested them for enough time yet) The DBA T2 or T3 4000 series seem to be an excellent choice. Australian made, good quality materials, Etc...

I have tried some cheap ass rotors from ebay and they warped and surface rusted quickly.

After you have fitted them get some little kids in the front passenger seat (no seat belt), go down your driveway and hit the brakes and watch their little faces pressed up against the windscreen. Then make a passing comment: Just got the brakes done kids whadda ya reckon?

Enjoy.
 

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So guys, I've just spent the best part of the last two days upgrading the front brakes on my 04 TD42ti GU ute. I've had the parts sitting there for a while now and finally decided to pull my finger out and do it. I used TB48 GU spec DBA 4000 series slotted rotors, reconditioned TB48 GU calipers from Patrolapart, braided stainless lines, EBC yellow stuff pads and fitted new wheel bearings and seals after completely stripping everything down and cleaning everything up just to make it all nice and happy. Still got to do the rear end. Not real sure how much difference it'll all make as I need to bed in the rotors and pads before I really test them out.
Couple of questions.
Who has been running the EBC Yellow stuff pads and what bed in procedure did you follow ?
And, after paying a small fortune for the TB48 calipers, thinking that they were supposed to be bigger and better than the ones I have, I was really disappointed to find that sitting on the bench side by side with my TD42ti calipers apart from some minor casting differences, they appear to be exactly the same ! The pads even fit each other. Does this sound right ?
 

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.....after paying a small fortune for the TB48 calipers, thinking that they were supposed to be bigger and better than the ones I have, I was really disappointed to find that sitting on the bench side by side with my TD42ti calipers apart from some minor casting differences, they appear to be exactly the same ! The pads even fit each other. Does this sound right ?
Have you measured the caliper piston diameters, or are you just going by appearances?

The pads are interchangeable. TB48 pads are thinner to suit the thicker rotors.

This has been covered in earlier posts in this thread.
 

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I was really disappointed to find that sitting on the bench side by side with my TD42ti calipers apart from some minor casting differences, they appear to be exactly the same !
The calipers should have slightly larger clearance inside for the 10mm bigger diameter disc but the radius clearance would only need 5mm extra so hard to tell by eye.

The diameter of the cylinders/pistons should also be bigger, you could measure that easily with calipers.


The pads even fit each other. Does this sound right ?
Yes as GeoffA said, the pads fit from one to the other.


Are the inner part of the discs different, different disc offset and ventilation holes or the same as the 4.2 discs?

I am interested to hear how it goes though. Bed them in and see how much better the extra 10mm of disc works.

The DBA 4000 series discs are bloody good. They don't warp or glaze as easy as the other cheaper discs but you are on the right track to use soft pads.
 

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From the Max Ellery manual:

4.5 front rotors are 306mm OD x 32mm thick
4.5 front pad thickness is 12mm
4.5 front caliper bore is 48.1mm
4.5 master cylinder bore is 25.4mm

4.8 front rotors are 316mm OD x 34mm thick
4.8 front pad thickness is 10mm
4.8 front caliper bore is 51.1mm
4.8 master cylinder bore is 26.9mm

Doesn't seem like much difference, until you need to stop.
It's like chalk and cheese then.[/QUOTE]

So I just went back through the thread and yes, apparently there is a difference between the 4.5 and 4.8 piston bores of 3mm so one could assume that the 4.2 calliper is the same as the 4.5 ?
I'll see if I can be arsed pulling one of the new 4.8 calipers back off today and give the Pistons a measure just to confirm.
Would three mm really make much difference ?
Also, I was supplied a second hand 4.8 master cylinder with the calipers but for peace of mind, I'm thinking I might fit a brand new one instead as you never know when a second handy is going to die. It'll be good to get the rear end done and have everything bedded in before I do so as to see if it makes much difference. Stay tuned...
Oh, any advice on the bed in procedure ?
 

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Hi Wobbles,
Very interested to hear how your set goes.


Bedding in EBC pads In Street use situations …
Bedding in when the red EBC surface coating (marked on the pads as Brake In) is applied.
Best procedure is to drive gently avoiding harsh braking unless in an emergency for first 100 miles. In the second 100 miles (up to 200) you can use gently increasing brake pressures when using the brakes. Only after 200 miles urban driving (not 200 miles on a freeway where brakes are almost unused) should you attempt to apply heavy load and heat to the brakes. To do this final bedding on a QUIET ROAD in safe traffic apply the brakes and slow from 60 to 10 MPH five times in a row. Then drive slowly for a few minutes if safe to do so to allow the brakes to cool. Try to avoid coming to a rest whilst the brakes are heated.
A smell may be noticed from the warm brakes, this is normal. Repeat this procedure a second time after the brakes have TOTALLY cooled down. EBC pads get better with miles. Even after this bed in procedure it can take up to 1500 miles before the pads are at their best. In the meantime the pads will be good and safe but true potential not realised. EBC makes performance pads that last, they do not bed in within 5 minutes driving. Noises will be more likely during the first 1000-1500 miles use whilst this chemical bedding takes place.
NEVER attempt to sand or scotchbrite brake pads to assist it bedding in or noise reduction,this will only make things worse by taking the pads “Off-Flat” and require hundreds of miles driving to seat them again during which time the brakes will feel very dull. The only way to seat pads is against the rotor they will be used on and by following our bedding recommendation.
Bedding in for trackday or race use …
We remind you there is NO WARRANTY on any EBC product for race use due to the very varying conditions that can be seen. However, care bedding pads in and monitoring wear will get the best from our products.
Most EBC pads including Yellow range pads now have the brake in coating. If possible and using a street based car, fit the pads before the race use and bed in as above for street use. Try to get 200-300 miles urban driving on the pads before racing them. If this is NOT possible and you fit at the track bed like this.
Drive two laps steadily applying the brakes every few seconds and then coast for a full lap without any unnecessary braking to allow pads and rotors to cool down. Drive a third lap applying the brakes slightly harder each time and again drive a cooldown lap. Do NOT pull up and park the car with the brakes red hot, try to let them cool as much as possible before coming to a rest. It is also important to understand that the pads must be geometrically matched to the rotor (flat and parallel) before they will bed in chemically. If you do the above bed in and get violent fade first use you MUST repeat the bedding procedure. We get lots of new customers calling in saying my brakes have faded and when they send a digital the pad is only touching on 70-80% of its surface area. Fade early in a pads life is almost a good thing. It is called GREEN fade and will disappear so if you suffer Green fade (you will notice this by smell), you are on the right path and this is not a negative. If you are getting fade after 20 laps and the pads are part worn, then something else needs looking into such as material choice, bleeding of the system, driving style etc …
 

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Hey thanks heaps outta here. Once I've bedded them in I'll post up how effective it's been just doing the front, and then I'll do the rear and then the master cylinder to see how each mod has an effect. My truck weighs around 3.5 ton and the brakes were pretty terrible, so I had to do something. The old discs were badly glazed and have heat cracks through them as well as being warped with a pulsing through the pedal under heavy braking - clearly it's all been just too much to ask of the factory components. Hopefully the upgraded parts will cope a lot better.
 

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So I just went and pulled the Caliper pistons out of my old 04 model TD42ti ute front brake calipers and gave them a measure. They came in at 48.1mm. According to the Max Ellery manual as quoted a few posts above, one can then say that TD42ti calipers are the same as the TB45e calipers.
I really can't be bothered going to the trouble of pulling off my freshly installed TB48 calipers and measuring the Pistons but let's assume that the above info is correct and say that the TB48 Caliper pistons are in fact 3mm larger in diameter than TD42ti.
So for those like me with a GU, that end up doing the TB48 brake upgrade and are expecting a massive difference in the physical size or design of the Caliper, you won't find any. It's all in the 3mm difference in piston diameter, the 10mm difference in rotor diameter, and a small difference in the master cylinder bore.
 
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