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nissan
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Hi guys,

I'd like to tell you all about a recent experience I had when attempting to purchase a vehicle from interstate, and why it did not proceed.

Firstly, I may make it very clear, that the seller in my case (who is a forum member on here) was very helpful, courteous and generally a great guy when helping to answer all the questions I had.


Anyway, let's get down to brass tacks.

I was looking at a GQ patrol with a 4" lift and 35" tyres. It was in Vic, and I'm currently in NSW. That means obtaining a UVP to transport the vehicle interstate (no big deal).

When I started making enquiries about obtaining registration I ran into some hurdles. I have fortunate access to registration in both QLD and NSW, due to my circumstances, so I checked out the requirements for both states - in an attempt to find out which is the better option for garaging and rego.

It turns out that due to changes in laws (NCOP for modifications) and in particular QLD (QCOP) the 4" lift is not acceptable even as a legal modification. The long and the short of it is that QLD only allow a 50mm lift max, which meets with the QCOP regulations for LS9 & LS10, as well as passing the LS2/3 NCOP regulations and the infamous "Lane Change Test". Also, 35" wheels cannot be fitted, period.

In NSW, I spoke to a engineer about obtaining an engineer approval. Straight off the bat I was told 35" tyres are illegal, regardless. Also that recently the Police were in attendance at a sanctioned off-road event and defected a number of drivers for this particular issue. Well, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, but regardless, I have it now on good authority that I can't fit 35" tyres to my soon-to-be GQ to drive to an event. Yes I get it, but I don't make the rules....

The second thing I was told about - the 4" lift - (this may already be known to some) is technically, it would not pass the lane change test, which must be done for the engineers certificate in NSW. well not 'verbatim'..... as it turns out, the GQ on a set of 33's *may* be able to pass the test, if a HUGE set of swaybars are fabricated for this specific purpose - i.e. to allow the vehicle to safely negotiate the test. However, the associated costs to achieve the approval, would exceed the purchase price of the vehicle as it currently stood. THAT is quite alarming - (and this guy was not trying to yank my chain or rip me off - he was straight down the line practical bloke with explicit advice on what is required to make it work for approval (he's done a few before).

All in all, I was quite dejected about the whole thing. I had my heart set on a really cool vehicle, and because of the registration requirements, simply cannot achieve it cost-effectively.

And I am certainly not bagging the seller in any way. He is a great bloke. Honest, easy to deal with and he has a fantastic truck too. It just sucks that there is no consistency across states when it comes to these modifications, not to mention the fact that there are a LOT of 4x4's out there running lifts and bigger tyres and not causing issues.

Yes, there are safety standards. I don't advocate flagrant disregard for them in any way. I do however believe that a degree of sensibility needs to be applied for limited use vehicles to enable them to be used on public roads to enable them to get from a to b. and by that I mean without restriction or historic plates or club registration.... that is all a bull**** idea.

So the bottom line? Well, as disappointed as I am, I can say I'm better off knowing and learning this before buying another 4x4, and that the changes to legislation really are inconsistent and in the majority of cases seem to not have much thought behind their logic. Almost as if the problem is simply solved mathematically without any idea of 'fit for purpose'.

So if you are looking to buy a 4x4 in NSW or QLD..... just make sure it doesn't have 35" tyres, doesn't have a 4" or greater lift (without an NSW engineers certificate or qld mod plate) and certainly factor this in, should you intend to proceed with the purchase of a vehicle.

So now I'm back to looking for more mundane and less interesting vehicles.

I hope this is of some benefit to purchasers - I'm simply providing this information as an example and the result of my very recent experience, and it should not deter people who have the financial means to achieving approval.

Cheers.
 

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"Toxic Personality"
nissan
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you do know that "lift" is measured from static bumpstop clearance to point of contact, on a solid axle car? and the 2nd unit of measurement is a 1/3 increase in sill height over standard.

if you fit a 4in lift and correctly set up your suspension with corrected bumpstops etc, its legal. no need for engineering.
because its no longer classed as a 4in lift, but more like 2inch, or 1.5inch.

throw some little wheels on it, make sure suspension is right, and its all sweet.
 

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nissan patrol
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you do know that "lift" is measured from static bumpstop clearance to point of contact, on a solid axle car? and the 2nd unit of measurement is a 1/3 increase in sill height over standard.

if you fit a 4in lift and correctly set up your suspension with corrected bumpstops etc, its legal. no need for engineering.
because its no longer classed as a 4in lift, but more like 2inch, or 1.5inch.

throw some little wheels on it, make sure suspension is right, and its all sweet.

This is the first i have heard of this! Thats awsome im slightly more legal now haha
 

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you do know that "lift" is measured from static bumpstop clearance to point of contact, on a solid axle car? and the 2nd unit of measurement is a 1/3 increase in sill height over standard.

if you fit a 4in lift and correctly set up your suspension with corrected bumpstops etc, its legal. no need for engineering.
because its no longer classed as a 4in lift, but more like 2inch, or 1.5inch.

throw some little wheels on it, make sure suspension is right, and its all sweet.
Do you have a link to where it says this in the NCOP? Because I have read it and did not interpret it this way at all also I have never heard of the 1/3 sill height rule? There used to be VSI8 that had a 1/3 of bumpstop clearance lift allowance but no reference to sill height.
 

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Rogue
nissan gu patrol
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So if you are looking to buy a 4x4 in NSW or QLD..... just make sure it doesn't have 35" tyres, doesn't have a 4" or greater lift (without an NSW engineers certificate or qld mod plate) and certainly factor this in, should you intend to proceed with the purchase of a vehicle.
You can add Vic to that list too ;)
 

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Rogue
nissan gu patrol
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I too have not heard of the 1/3 sill part. Its definitely written in clear black and white English about the bump stop part (which actually doesn't include modified to suit bump stops).
 

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you do know that "lift" is measured from static bumpstop clearance to point of contact, on a solid axle car? and the 2nd unit of measurement is a 1/3 increase in sill height over standard.

if you fit a 4in lift and correctly set up your suspension with corrected bumpstops etc, its legal. no need for engineering.
because its no longer classed as a 4in lift, but more like 2inch, or 1.5inch.

throw some little wheels on it, make sure suspension is right, and its all sweet.
Get that in writing from your regulatory authority if you want to use it
Its news to me as well x3
Oscar
 

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"Toxic Personality"
nissan
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its been like that for a long time guys, its in the vsi's that my mechanic uses to do rwc's that we check against when i do my 5-10 roadies a year.(he gets updates all the time, so yes, current vsi's in victoiria)
and so long as they keep measuring where they used to.... "50mm" lift is measured at the bumpstop.

hydraulic bumpstops, and extended bumpstops are not outlawed. in obvious fact they are required to be modified as directed in vsi's if the wheel was to foul on any part of the car etc.

the 1/3 sill height measurement is there (or used to be, ill check again) because the measurement of "lift" is not taken off headlights or roof line etc. Its an overall thing. so the car is "ballpark" what it once was.

to be honest, idea of limiting a "lift" because of a cars overall "height" is stupid. A car is not unsafe if it is 1.8m tall. nor if its 2m tall, or 2.2m tall. The standards are set to ensure that the vehicles designed and approved suspension and steering geometry and linkages will still work correctly for safety.

People get confused equating "lift" with dangerous handling on these forums because our basic patrol does not respond well to a slap-dash lift in the order of 6inches or more. meh, same for landcruisers. and landrover.
Its also not about raising the height of your headlights etc.... You could lift a commodore 10inches and its roof and headlights would be loads lower than any stock patrol. but the same rules apply to them too. you can put lights on your roof if you want.... no height limit on lights(just a bunch of adr's to do with reflection)

its about the designed and approved suspension and steering geometry. thats why a suspension "lift" is measured off a suspension component. not bodywork or lighting.

Im a "spirit of the law" guy.
 

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Hi guys,

The second thing I was told about - the 4" lift - (this may already be known to some) is technically, it would not pass the lane change test, which must be done for the engineers certificate in NSW. well not 'verbatim'..... as it turns out, the GQ on a set of 33's *may* be able to pass the test, if a HUGE set of swaybars are fabricated for this specific purpose - i.e. to allow the vehicle to safely negotiate the test. However, the associated costs to achieve the approval, would exceed the purchase price of the vehicle as it currently stood. THAT is quite alarming - (and this guy was not trying to yank my chain or rip me off - he was straight down the line practical bloke with explicit advice on what is required to make it work for approval (he's done a few before).


Cheers.
There are certainly some issues with buying vehicles interstate.

I do wonder about the engineer you talked to though.

My ute sailed through a lane change test with a 3-4" lift, tyres just under 34", Superflex arms and swaybars both on and off.

2 Duramax GU's were done on the same day, both were very composed on a 5" lift.

They had also had a play previously during a lane change test of a LS1 GU ute, running it through as presented initially then backing the adjustable shocks off to minimum settings and removing swaybars, it still would have passed.
 

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Vehicle standards information
All vehicles in Victoria must conform to construction standards ensuring vehicles provide drivers and passengers with a minimum level of safety.

The construction standards are contained in the Vehicle Standards Information Sheets below. To find the standard you need, select the corresponding number to the information sheet you request.

These standards are complemented by the Australian Design Rules (External link) and the Commonwealth Vehicle Standards Bulletins (External link)
this takes you straight to here
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/ro...Tyres_Suspension_Steering_V2_1Jan_2011 v3.pdf
 

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Its a unimog thing, understand?
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Hi guys,

In NSW, I spoke to a engineer about obtaining an engineer approval. Straight off the bat I was told 35" tyres are illegal, regardless. Also that recently the Police were in attendance at a sanctioned off-road event and defected a number of drivers for this particular issue. Well, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, but regardless, I have it now on good authority that I can't fit 35" tyres to my soon-to-be GQ to drive to an event. Yes I get it, but I don't make the rules....

The second thing I was told about - the 4" lift - (this may already be known to some) is technically, it would not pass the lane change test, which must be done for the engineers certificate in NSW. well not 'verbatim'..... as it turns out, the GQ on a set of 33's *may* be able to pass the test, if a HUGE set of swaybars are fabricated for this specific purpose - i.e. to allow the vehicle to safely negotiate the test. However, the associated costs to achieve the approval, would exceed the purchase price of the vehicle as it currently stood. THAT is quite alarming - (and this guy was not trying to yank my chain or rip me off - he was straight down the line practical bloke with explicit advice on what is required to make it work for approval (he's done a few before).

Cheers.
You may like to speak to another engineer. 35's in NSW are NOT illegal and there are engineers who will certify them.

If the event in question is the one I am thinking about, yes a number of cars were defected for numerous things as they were not 'engineered' or had mods that were not included on the engineers report. Nothing to do with point blank 'That's illegal'

In regards to the lift, there are plenty of vehicles around both Patrols and other brands with 4" (and higher) lifts in them that HAVE passed the lane change test and are legally engineered. Again, find a new engineer, there are some around that will engineer 35's and a 4" lift.

There are a number of engineers around who simply wont even contemplate a lifted car (say 4") and on 35's. Not because it is illegal, but because they cant be bothered/take the risk.

Again, I suggest you talk to another engineer.
 

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Rogue
nissan gu patrol
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Vehicle standards information
All vehicles in Victoria must conform to construction standards ensuring vehicles provide drivers and passengers with a minimum level of safety.

The construction standards are contained in the Vehicle Standards Information Sheets below. To find the standard you need, select the corresponding number to the information sheet you request.

These standards are complemented by the Australian Design Rules (External link) and the Commonwealth Vehicle Standards Bulletins (External link)
this takes you straight to here
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/ro...Tyres_Suspension_Steering_V2_1Jan_2011 v3.pdf
Yep, VicRoads only recently superseded their own standards for the national standards (NCOP). Even then, sill heights were not mentioned for suspension lifts. I have a copy of VSI8 (Vicroads)

You may like to speak to another engineer. 35's in NSW are NOT illegal and there are engineers who will certify them.

If the event in question is the one I am thinking about, yes a number of cars were defected for numerous things as they were not 'engineered' or had mods that were not included on the engineers report. Nothing to do with point blank 'That's illegal'

In regards to the lift, there are plenty of vehicles around both Patrols and other brands with 4" (and higher) lifts in them that HAVE passed the lane change test and are legally engineered. Again, find a new engineer, there are some around that will engineer 35's and a 4" lift.

There are a number of engineers around who simply wont even contemplate a lifted car (say 4") and on 35's. Not because it is illegal, but because they cant be bothered/take the risk.

Again, I suggest you talk to another engineer.
Yeah, NSW hasn't adopted NCOP yet, so suspension modifications over 2" and tyre increases over 7% can still be engineered.
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents...ndards/vsi-06-light-vehicle-modifications.pdf
 

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you say alot of people have lift and tires yes, to me lift and tires are one of those things dont go to crazy and dont drive like a tool and on the odd chance you get defected rip the stuff out get it cleared and put it back in
 

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Yep, VicRoads only recently superseded their own standards for the national standards (NCOP). Even then, sill heights were not mentioned for suspension lifts. I have a copy of VSI8 (Vicroads)


Yeah, NSW hasn't adopted NCOP yet, so suspension modifications over 2" and tyre increases over 7% can still be engineered.
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents...ndards/vsi-06-light-vehicle-modifications.pdf
NSW
Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) - Vehicle standards - Safety & rules - Roads - Roads and Maritime Services
cheers Oscar
 

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About 12 months ago I called 4 engineers out of the ones that are listed for Sydney on the rta website and they all said max of 3" suspension and around 33" tyres.
If anyone knows of an engineer who has recently passed more lift & tyres than this please post who the engineer is?
 

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you say alot of people have lift and tires yes, to me lift and tires are one of those things dont go to crazy and dont drive like a tool and on the odd chance you get defected rip the stuff out get it cleared and put it back in
That's fine if you are only worried about getting defected. A greater concern for me was legality as far as insurance was concerned. Try making a claim if your car is not legal or if you're in an accident and someone gets badly injured and your car isn't legal. Insurance companies/lawyers will have a field day at your expense. Its happened to people I know and it doesn't end well.
 

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Ive bought two patrol interstate, one for NSW and one from QLD, and had nil issues.
The one from QLD had 4 blue plates and that was good enough for a VIC engineer to sign it off and give me a RWC.

Maybe i just got lucky
 
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