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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

My initial post on my veggie conversion got lost during the big server crash a while back and I finally decided to get going at it again although I might not have the patience to go as much in detail as I did on the first time...

My truck is a '93 GQ TD4.2 24v Safari model. On my veggie set up I'm using the existing 90L tank for my veggie and installed a secondary tank for the diesel as I still need to use diesel on start up in the morning and shut down (purging the lines from veggie at the end of the day).

I started by mounting a 24v fuel pump to assist pushing the veggie to the IP. It's a Walbro FRP-16 24v. It's mounted inside the rear crossbar against the rear bumper. It's mounted in a way that it can be easily serviced (extra hose length).

Next was installing a heated Racor fuel filter. I already relocated both batteries inside the cab so I'm lucky to have new space available for other projects including this one. I made a bracket sitting where the driver's side battery used to be and attached the Racor on it. It's slotted so the filter can be lifted out for servicing. Again, extra hose length.

I made a platform sitting at the bottom of the Racor bracket to sit the heat exchanger and mounted the HE on it.

I also mounted my supply 3 way valve against the Racor bracket so everything is all close together and also close to the IP. Once the oil gets hot it has very limited distance to travel to the IP and less chances to loose heat.

I also mounted a 12v 32amps Vegtherm inline heater, final heating stage. With it I also mounted a sensor (thermostat? attached to one of my injector lines) to control the heat (On at 70 celcius, Off at 90) and this way I don't have to run the Vegtherm as much, mostly just to get thing warmed up quicker in the morning and then as a backup to ensure the oil is always nice and hot.

The 3 way return valve is mounted against the right fender, seemed like it belonged there.

Finally I mounted my ghetto fuel tank on the roof. It will find a better spot at some point but I had this tank in my garage and doing this way allowed me to get going on veggie right away. My future options would be to mount it underneath (not a simple task given it needs it's own filler/venting...) or build a 10L tank and mount it inside the engine bay. Not decided yet and not too high on my priority list anymore.

So how does it work?

Start the truck on diesel, drive for 2-5min. Coolant warms up the heated veggie filter and HE (coolant line T from the main line to bring hot coolant to both heaters and return to next main line) then switch to veggie (3 way switch inside the cab). Supply valve turns on, blocks the diesel and alloys veggie instead. Return lines turns on, blocks diesel from returning to tank and alloys veggie to loop back before the Vegtherm. This way the hot oil doesn't get wasted by going back in the wvo tank and gets immediately recirculated in the system.

For shut down at the end of the day I switch to the 3rd position (purge) on the switch inside the cab. Supply valves turns off (alloys diesel), return valves stays on (loops left over wvo back to the IP until it's fully flushed by the diesel). This way I don't end up sending wvo back into the diesel tank.

I've been running it for a few weeks now and the truck loves it as expected. Now I'm paying $0.05/Liter instead of $1.15
I also recycle wasted veggie oil (I get it from a locale Japanese restaurant once they're done with it).
And finally I pollute a lot less. Makes me a Happy Camper!

Cheers,
Mr. D

Pictures description
1, 2 & 3: WVO fuel pump
4: WVO heated Racor fuel filter
5: Heat Exchanger bracket
6: HE mounted
7: Vegtherm inline heater and 3 way supply valve against Racor bracket
8: Vegtherm sensor
9: Coolant T's on main lines
10: Return valve
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Just a few more pictures.

1: Diesel fuel lines (supply and return) going through the bonnet
2: Diesel lines going up the pillar and onto the roofrack
3: Diesel lines making it to the mounted fuel tank on the roof
4: Roof top mounted fuel tank with protection cover for the lines. (I still need to change the fitting for the vent from straight to 90 degree)
5: Supply valve plumbing with heated filter and heat exchanger
6: Coolant connections

This system might be a bit overkilled with the 26plates heat exchanger but my wvo tank isn't heated so it could be even more efficient if I had the patience to do it. With my typical weather here I didn't feel the need to heat the tank, time will tell!

Cheers!
Mr. D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey glort, thanks for the feedback.

I initially plumbed my coolant lines directly from the water pump to the HE but was concerned if the heater wasn't ON (ie. summer time) the HE wouldn't get as hot. I have since T'd it from the main coolant line and my HE is hotter. If there's a better way to do it please let me know as I'm always opened to a better system. I also thought of putting the HE vertical but it's been a non-issue as it is (and the fit was better)...

As for my change over time I could always wait longer but so far I've been doing it once the oil reaches 90 celcius which is around 3-5 min. depending on weather. I think my 30amps in-line heater makes a big difference in quickly bringing the oil up to temperature vs. not using it. Once the oil is warm it eases off and doesn't steal so much power. But I hear you about changing too quick...

I also usually blend a bit of diesel with my veggie in the winter but not much, 5-10%. I've blended ULP with my veggie in the past, never more than 10% and can't tell if it made any difference but for sure didn't hurt anything. It was more of a trial as I didn't have my Pyro gauge connected yet. I'll be good to give it another try next week.

You can't tell from the pictures but I already started mounting my water/meth injection system. The pump is mounted behind the driver side headlight. I was tempted to wait until I have my turbo installed to complete this project but who knows. I'm just not sure where to connect my nozzle at the intake. On my previous truck I had one pre-turbo and another one at the intake manifold. With this truck I need to find where would be the best spot. I always liked the idea that this system might not give me as much extra power as advertised but for sure keeps the inside real nice and clean. I'm usually using winter windshield washer as it has a high % of alcohol (40%?). I've also blended meth but it's pricier.

Another neat thing we've done (my friend Jay has been giving me a good hand on all electrical aspects...) is installing a remote fuse panel. Since my truck is running on 24v I mounted a 24v fuse panel inside the engine bay. So I can avoid using some relays, keeps everything much cleaner and easier to work with.

Cheers,
Mr. D
 

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Always been interested in this idea but have wondered how much work goes into transportation from your local chinese shop, (how much do you remove from your chosen supplier at a time) filtering (how much work goes into filtering it before you put it into your tank), how you would sustain an extended trip of any distance bugger than one tank return!?
Tod-
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's a dual system so if you go on a long trip you bring as much oil as you can (extra cans...) and once you're done you switch back to diesel (as it has 2 tanks, one veggie and one diesel).

My last road trip I did 12,000km on a 1/4 tank of diesel... everything else I brought with me or found other people willing to sell me some of their veggie at about 1/4 of the diesel price. (did 6000km before having to buy any fuel).

As for getting the oil, find a restaurant willing to give or sell you the oil cheap and take all you can. (just make sure it's nice oil, it will make your life easier).

Filtering is quite easy. Many ways to do it but for me it takes me 3 min. a day to filter about 30-40L and obviously I don't have to do it everyday.

Best mods I've done on any of my vehicles by far!

Cheers,
Mr. D
 

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Abitibi/Glort, I have read somewhere in the past that on TD42 engines hot coolant can be tapped from somewhere around the oil filters. I wonder if anyone knows where exactly and if there is any issue in doing this? If at all practical this would be a nice heat source as it is straight from the block.
 

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As for getting the oil, find a restaurant willing to give or sell you the oil cheap and take all you can. (just make sure it's nice oil, it will make your life easier).

Filtering is quite easy. Many ways to do it but for me it takes me 3 min. a day to filter about 30-40L and obviously I don't have to do it everyday.

Best mods I've done on any of my vehicles by far!

Cheers,
Mr. D
I find this thread very interesting because you are using straight filtered used cooking oil. In my country they convert it to Bio-diesel and make a big deal about the technology!
 

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PB4UGO, I will be mimicking your veggie oil conversion shortly on my TD42 (12v battery system). Being that i'm in Central America and my temperatures down go below 12C (53F) at the coldest point of the night and range between 18C (64F) to 26C (79F) during the day. Do you think i'll be able to heat the oil properly with ONLY a 26 plate coolant/svo heat exchanger?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi zuwoko,

Given you're in South America it should be way easier for you. Are you thinking of only using veggie oil or would you still use a dual system like I do?

If you plan on going only veggie my only issue would be at start up when you're engine is cold and the most vulnerable. Although the TD42 is very tolerant it might be pushing it during the coldest months. To help you you could always blend your veggie with diesel... Once the engine is properly warmed up then just using a heat exchanger (26 plates seems big enough) should be good enough. You might have to change your fuel filter more regularly though.

If you want a dual fuel system then you'll need two tanks (diesel/veggie), some valves to control which fuel you select. That would still be my preferred system as it'd be easier on the engine for the long run.

Soooo, if you want to keep it simple and the weather is warm enough you can simply blend without any modifications. Just put 25% veggie in your diesel tank for the safest margin. If it's quite warm outside you could increase the % of oil in your diesel. Many people go above 50% in the warm months without issues. I can't say they won't have issues in the long, I'm no specialist but I've seen it done for years on worse engine without issues. If you add a heat exchanger in the mix then you just help yourself some more.

I hope this help and don't hesitate to ask more questions... Good luck!

Mr. D
 

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At those temps i would be considering blending Ulp/Rug with your veg rather than diesel. Adjust the ratio depending on temperatures. Symptoms like low idle, nailing or reduced power at full throttle all point to fuel too thick/cold. 10-15% rug are reasonable numbers.
I prefer 2 tank myself as flushing the IP with diesel gives me confidence that the veg wont kill it so fast.
 

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Thanks for your great responses! I like to be on the safe side or prolonged engine and engine components durability. So I will be running a dual tank system to achieve this. I'm thinking of using the factory diesel fuel filter for a 5 gallon diesel tank in the trunk and for the veggie oil stored in the factory fuel tank use an aftermarket fuel filter such as Racor (recommend models please).

I'm thinking an electric 3 port valve as close as possible to the Injection Pump as to reduce purge times. Is this logical or do you find a better place to install the valve?

Looping: I'm thinking of looping the injection pump return line back into the fuel line between the IP and the 3-port Valve. Sound good?

What Temp Sensors do you recommend? How will I know the temperature of the Flat Plate heater while I'm still running on diesel at startup?

Here is a diagram of my plan so far.
 

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I run 100% water in my radiator without ever overheating nor hearing bubbling in my cooling system. This indicates the liquid in my radiator maintains below 100C. That means it will not be able to heat my SVO to 100C. I would like to keep my SVO above 90C. I guess once its all installed, I'll find out if I need to install an electric 12V heater such as a vegtherm between my IP and 26 plate coolant heat exchanger.
 

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I run 100% water in my radiator without ever overheating nor hearing bubbling in my cooling system. This indicates the liquid in my radiator maintains below 100C. That means it will not be able to heat my SVO to 100C. I would like to keep my SVO above 90C. I guess once its all installed, I'll find out if I need to install an electric 12V heater such as a vegtherm between my IP and 26 plate coolant heat exchanger.
It doesn't indicate that at all... A cooling system is pressurised which increases the boiling temperature of water to more like 110 degrees or even a bit higher.

That said if your fans etc are working then your car will probably never get over 100c
 

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I run 100% water in my radiator without ever overheating nor hearing bubbling in my cooling system. This indicates the liquid in my radiator maintains below 100C. That means it will not be able to heat my SVO to 100C. I would like to keep my SVO above 90C. I guess once its all installed, I'll find out if I need to install an electric 12V heater such as a vegtherm between my IP and 26 plate coolant heat exchanger.
I'm thinking you are either not worried about corrosion or not aware that 100% water will cause your cooling system to corrode.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Your diagram won't work as you're missing a second 3-way valve for your return. If you don't put a second valve for your return any air in your lines (it's there believe me, everytime you change filters, even just driving...) won't have a chance to escape and your truck will first run like s**t then die (until you purge the air out).

Your second valve should only loop your veggie and return diesel into it's vented tank so that when you switch from veggie back to diesel any air present in your lines will have somewhere to escape...

The rest of your diagram is spot on. You're asking about a veggie fuel filter, any heated Racor with water separator bowl should work but they can be pricey and so for the actual filter cartridge. On the plus side they are worldly available.

Check www.plantdrive.ca (they have a US site as well). I've used lots of their parts and some kits in my previous and current conversions and they are excellent quality and their price is also very good. They have a great heated veggie filters...


Cheers,
Mr. D
 

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Mavtroll: Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Twinotter600: My radiator is already pretty corroded, probably due to previous owner running 100% water as I found out when I drained & flushed it. I did over see this when I flushed it. I will use some quarts of antifreeze to avoid further corroding. Thanks for pointing this out.

PB4UGO: Thanks for your help. I will have to route the returns back to their respective tank as you mentioned. Whats your opinion on going with two 3-port valves or one 6-port valve? Plantdrive.com has both valves listed at $110 USD. So i would be twice as expensive to go with two seperate 3-port valves than their 6-port valve..However, how will the two different setups work as far as cross tank contamination?

I think I'm going to go with a FPHE 26-plate for $125 USD instead of heated water seperator filters for $350+ USD. Since I dont have to worry about geling over night I wont have any issues.

Thank you all for your input! Once I have the plan fine tuned I'll start converting :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi zuwoko,

Given you're in South America it should be way easier for you. Are you thinking of only using veggie oil or would you still use a dual system like I do?

If you plan on going only veggie my only issue would be at start up when you're engine is cold and the most vulnerable. Although the TD42 is very tolerant it might be pushing it during the coldest months. To help you you could always blend your veggie with diesel... Once the engine is properly warmed up then just using a heat exchanger (26 plates seems big enough) should be good enough. You might have to change your fuel filter more regularly though.

If you want a dual fuel system then you'll need two tanks (diesel/veggie), some valves to control which fuel you select. That would still be my preferred system as it'd be easier on the engine for the long run.

Soooo, if you want to keep it simple and the weather is warm enough you can simply blend without any modifications. Just put 25% veggie in your diesel tank for the safest margin. If it's quite warm outside you could increase the % of oil in your diesel. Many people go above 50% in the warm months without issues. I can't say they won't have issues in the long, I'm no specialist but I've seen it done for years on worse engine without issues. If you add a heat exchanger in the mix then you just help yourself some more.

I hope this help and don't hesitate to ask more questions... Good luck!

Mr. D
Glort,

Where's all that mis-information you're talking about? This fellow lives where it gets down to 12 celcius at the coldest. As per above, what I brought up previously seems very similar to what your talking about in your long text...

With his design it can't work and I think you agree with it? He needs a way for the air to escape. If he wants a two tank system than he'll need a second valve or a 6 way valve which does the same but leaks some veggie back into the diesel tank during switch over. (not an issue with his weather but it is one here in Canada). I've used the Pollack valve and it worked good except for having to drain my diesel tank once or twice a year as the veggie % was getting too high. And I bought my 3 way valves for $45 each... not that pricey.

I'm also a bit confused with how you say it's not a big deal to switch back to diesel too late but it's important to let the engine warm up properly before switching back to veggie? If you switch back late you might have plenty of residual veggie left for your next cold start up. Isn't that similar to switching too early? I mean you'll be running cold veggie in a cold engine until it's properly purged? You say your truck will start on cold oil in winter, what kind of winter are we taking about in your part of the world, how many celcius? 'cause I doubt mine would start in our winters...

As for switch over, if your oil is cold but engine hot then I too don't see much of an issue. But if your oil is hot and engine only warm (not hot), why do you see it an issue? maybe with cold oil but with hot oil???

I agree with pretty much the rest Glort, installing water/meth injection when running on wvo is a great idea. It's not a must but it will keep your engine nice and clean. Did it in my previous truck and started on this truck but haven't finished it yet (my bad)... Same for idling, best way to gum up your engine.

My system isn't THE system, it's just what I've used for the last 5 years that has worked for me in my part of the world. And I will eventually modify things around as I learn more about my truck and the veggie world. It is overkilled but it's been problem free for over 5 years. I might simplify it down the road? But as long as I see other people learning and starting their own conversion then I'm a happy man!

Cheers,
Mr. D
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Good reading, thanks Glort.

I didn't expect you could start on cold oil at close to °c! Not that I'm gonna try out but it's a nice safety guard...

So sounds like you are now running single tank in your truck? You simply blend (higher ratio in colder months) and don't have difficult starts in the mornings? That's impressive. You don't have the same concerns with this set up as a too early switch over? I would think that you'd end up with a fair chunk of cold oil in a cold engine?

It would be a lot simpler...

Cheers,
Mr. D
 
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