Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
6,054 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I think everyone I've ever seen with a 6.5 turbo conversion has been really happy with it but is it worth trying to save a few pennies and just get an N/A engine? I know more power is always better but if you have just forked out a lump of money to move up from a 3.0 is the N/A engine good enough?
 

·
Premium Member
Patrol Hybrid.
Joined
·
11,105 Posts
That's the way I went, only turboed it after the caravan. Had sufficient power for my needs which included towing a fairly heavy campertrailer. I towed the caravan across to WA and it did OK until some massive headwinds near Esperance.
 

·
Master Coalroller
nissan
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
Most of the Brunswick and Linquip conversions were 6.5NA in the early days.

I've seen a Beige HX Holden ute getting around Perth with a 6.5NA and auto trans. Has the "6.5 CHEV" Suburban style stickers along the bottom of the doors.

Awesome to see and hear it lol
 

·
Master Coalroller
nissan
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
I drove a '78 F100 custom LWB ute around for a couple of weeks back in the late 90's. Had a 6.2NA and manual trans in it. I was thinking about buying it off a mate. The engine got along with the effy really nicely.
Was like driving a recon TD42NA with actual responsiveness and torque, x 1.5

The best thing about NA's is the proper soundtrack from the pipe.

The NA's are a lot better than turbo to mate to manual trans too.
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,662 Posts
I haven't done the conversion, haven't owned one, but I know two people that started out with the NA converting from ZD30DIs. One is a guy I used to do odd jobs for, the other is the guy I bought my chip from. They both converted to NA 6.5s as they thought the torque would improve their ability to tow large trailers and vans. However, both lived in the hills in Vic and found it was worse than the 3.0L and used more fuel. Both sent theirs back to Brunswick for turbos and intercoolers, one still wasn't happy and modified it. Still not happy, both sold theirs and bought different vehicles, one a F-truck, the other a 1HD-FTE 100 series.

From memory, Metric might have had a similar story too. Although he hasn't sold the GU last time I spoke to him.

I think Frosty is the only person I've met with an NA 6.5 that liked it.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
6,054 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I think Frosty is the only person I've met with an NA 6.5 that liked it.
I was thinking the same. Frosty has praised the 6.5N/A on several forums but other owners seem to be at least a little disappointed with it. I wasn't sure whether this was due to an unrealistic preconceived anticipation of driving an engine with twice the cylinders and more than twice the capacity or whether it really was not quite up to the job.
 

·
Premium Member
nissan
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
unrealistic preconceived anticipation of driving an engine with twice the cylinders and more than twice the capacity
That would be the key factor.

In reality, a Hyundi will rip a 6.5 a new one speed wise (turbo'd or not).
They're not a race car by any stretch of the imagination.
They drive and preform like an empty truck.

You'll of set off on holidays, be 100k's down the road and realize you forgot to unchain it from the house. They're all about torque straight off idle.
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,662 Posts
What’s the point of the torque if you still can’t tow more weight, don’t get there any faster and don’t use less fuel? What is torque worth?
 

·
Premium Member
nissan
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
What's the point of 2000hp in a 6 second car when the speed limit is 60.
It's sad my Patrol can only "legally" tow 3.2 (or is it 2.8?).
Physically it'd pull 4t without a problem.

It's a totally different animal once you get it off road. There is no need for reduction gears, in fact, you (I) don't even use low range on most tracks. Last trip around Dargo, there was a mix of cars, Cruisers, Patrols (3 and 4.8's) and a disco. All of them were revving their tits off on most climbs while I stayed in 1H and under 1000rpm.

On a steep downhill, put in 1L, you then need to accelerate to get down. You can literally step out of the car and walk alongside.

Are they worth the 20 to 30k? For me ... yes. The next bloke ... dunno.
 

·
Master Coalroller
nissan
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
If you'd prefer a TD42 over a ZD, a properly set up NA 6.5 will give you 1.5 times the HP & torque. They're engines designed to rev to work, and need to be owned for that purpose.
People that are shy of the grenade factor and are happy to drive it like a truck will enjoy it. You do have to set it up properly though, including getting at least 3.9 diffs
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,662 Posts
Sure Rob, if the cost for the outcome is it worth it to you over other options. Everything is a compromise in someway. Consider options.

This is not intended to be a **** canning of the 6.5, I'm just trying to get some objective consideration into the argument for those considering the conversion.

Taking from a previous thread:
*So why are you not happy with the 3lt?? power reliability??
*what are you hoping to achieve with a conversion? better fuel economy and reliability? more power?
And adding:
*Why have you considered the 6.5 over other options such as TD42, 6BT, Duramax, 4.5 cummins (QSB4.5?), 1HD-, LS, L98, Barra, etc?

*Do you anticipate the motor outliving the body for the cost of the conversion?

I think a lot of people discount electronics because they think there is an inherent unreliability, but compared to the mechanical reliability of dino engines like the 6.5, a loom, ECU and sensors will have a lesser failure likelihood than a 6.5. I don't know a single 6.5 owner that has not had issues with their conversion, and I believe I know a few owners.
 

·
Premium Member
Patrol Hybrid.
Joined
·
11,105 Posts
I'll stick my hand up for not having any problems. Except for the first oil change outside Ceduna where I dropped the filter in the pan and had my face covered with diesel oil. A beard is hard to clean.
 

·
Premium Member
Patrol Hybrid.
Joined
·
11,105 Posts
rgren2 what was your fuel usage L /HK when it was N/A?
And what diffs?
3.9 diffs 14l/100k then I put the roof racks back on and it jumped to around 14.5l/100k a bit more around town and a bit less on the highway. Now it's turboed I get around 15l/100km highway and 18l/100km in town.
 

·
Premium Member
nissan
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
Sure Rob, if the cost for the outcome is it worth it to you over other options. Everything is a compromise in someway. Consider options.

This is not intended to be a **** canning of the 6.5, I'm just trying to get some objective consideration into the argument for those considering the conversion.

Taking from a previous thread:


And adding:
*Why have you considered the 6.5 over other options such as TD42, 6BT, Duramax, 4.5 cummins (QSB4.5?), 1HD-, LS, L98, Barra, etc?
I had mine converted around 2011. I didn't want another Nissan engine (once bitten) and there wasn't many options available then.
I originally intended on fitting a supercharged 6.5 from "Bullet" but after speaking with this sales manager and that sales manager, not one of them could give me a straight price. There was a gap of around $7k between 3 of them from the same company.

It took 2 calls to Brunswick to settle the price and it was on a truck to WA within 2 weeks of my deposit.
*Do you anticipate the motor outliving the body for the cost of the conversion?
I justified it by thinking that I'd need to keep it for 10 years and it's coming up to 7 now.
To spend $30k and then sell it in 3 or 5 would be a silly waste.

I think a lot of people discount electronics because they think there is an inherent unreliability, but compared to the mechanical reliability of dino engines like the 6.5, a loom, ECU and sensors will have a lesser failure likelihood than a 6.5. I don't know a single 6.5 owner that has not had issues with their conversion, and I believe I know a few owners.
The lack of electronics was a major selling point for me. When the wife and I go away, we get to some pretty remote places. IF something mechanical breaks, fencing wire and a hammer will generally get you going again :p With the 6.5 all you need is air, fuel and a 12v wire to the IP.

IF a $10 sensor dies your buggered.....

As an example of electronic reliability, I took my $150,000 3 week old GMC to the Esperance meet. Theresa and I were on a track about 7k east of Ningaloo when warnings for Stabilitrak, Power Steering, Traction Control, Trailer Brakes, 4WD system started flashing across the screen. All the guages, digital and analog were going crazy, and the aircon shut down (not much fun on a 40c day).

I stopped, shut it down thinking a restart will get it sorted. But it was DEAD. The only thing that worked was the radio (and you couldn't turn it off).
What do you do with no phone reception, too far for UHF comms and an EPIRB? in your caravan that is 100k's away and every indication that you've got 2 dead starter batteries.

I was lucky because the stabilitrak warning had flashed a few times just after I bought it.
I mentioned it to the dealership who spent the best part of a day tracking it to a connector on a loom. Because I knew that, I kicked, pulled, punched every loom and connector I could find which ended up doing the trick and it started.

Without that knowledge :skull:
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
765 Posts
As I posted earlier apart from running too cold due to incorrect thermostats for purpose in 56000 + km in 3 years I have had no issues
Are there better engines for conversion out there probably but don't discount the dinosaur 6.5 as you put it , it has history, as we know there is also history of some major issued as Oldmav said coolant passages in the head , cranks breaking and with that I will be the first to admit it was something I gave great thought to before I bought one I also believe a lot of the Aussie cranks breaking were due to adapter plates for engine transmission connection
I know people who warned me off outright but time will tell as Metric said no one should be doing a conversion like this only to get rid of the car after12 months it does not make financial sense, but they are cars and we would all be guilty of spending too much money and not getting it back when it does come time to sell.
I applaud the moderators for starting a 6.5 thread and as we know there are quite a lot of conversions out there already and hopefully when and if the other engine conversions become popular they will have their own threads
I'm hoping this thread works as I would like to learn more especially in the way of performance increases but not that much so it introduces unreliability into my car as I don't want to break down a long way from home because in have had to walk out too many times before. I also hate with a passion getting bogged ride on lawnmower included
I read geeyoutoo's articles on his watermeth system and think that could be interesting for the big chev but haven't done enough research yet
If someone said I will give you back your conversion money and you go back to a standard 4.2 ti at this particular time my answer would be no
I did the high country and the northern nsw meetup with the 4.2 and the SA meetup with the 6.5 and the difference in the way the car drove was amazing so much more fun
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
280 Posts
Engine Conversions

The type of engine for a conversion is such a personal choice. What are you trying to achieve by changing to a different type of engine and how much do you want to spend??? I pondered along time before i went down my chosen path of engine and conversion, but i guess at the end of the day you want something that suits your needs and YOU are happy with.

By posing the question on a web forum, such as this, gives you plenty of insight and opinions based on other peoples experiences or preferences. My decision and choice of engine/conversion will be different to yours, i have no experience with the 6.5 chevs and cant offer any unbiased first hand experience with this motor. However, to me, it seems like a lot of money to have similar power as the standard patrol engine you are replacing.

So i guess then if you aren't chasing anymore power and want reliability from a simple old school engine then this is for you. I will mention one thing from experience with converted diesel patrols. Reliability is not always guaranteed and you will have some teething problems along the way. Also parts are not readily available and can be costly to purchase overseas and have shipped to Aus. It can be frustrating when you want a part, filter or item that has to be ordered and you cant just walk into supercheap or a dealership to purchase it.

I have had my vehicle converted since feb 2014 and racked up almost 95k in that time. For the most part it has been trouble free, however it has not been without issues. Especially in a remote location outside of normal business hours and you require assistance that no one else can provide unless they have intimate knowledge of your chosen engine, this can test your faith a little, and also make you wish you had of chosen an engine that is widely used in Aus such as the 4.2TD or a Toyota 4.2TD 1Hz or whatever it is called.

If you do a lot of remote touring away from civilisation i would strongly suggest one of the above motors, which will give you similar performance and reliability but can also be repaired or diagnosed at almost any regional town with parts either readily available or within a reasonable time frame.

My 2 cents based on a patrol with a different engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,589 Posts
The type of engine for a conversion is such a personal choice. What are you trying to achieve by changing to a different type of engine and how much do you want to spend??? I pondered along time before i went down my chosen path of engine and conversion, but i guess at the end of the day you want something that suits your needs and YOU are happy with.

By posing the question on a web forum, such as this, gives you plenty of insight and opinions based on other peoples experiences or preferences. My decision and choice of engine/conversion will be different to yours, i have no experience with the 6.5 chevs and cant offer any unbiased first hand experience with this motor. However, to me, it seems like a lot of money to have similar power as the standard patrol engine you are replacing.

So i guess then if you aren't chasing anymore power and want reliability from a simple old school engine then this is for you. I will mention one thing from experience with converted diesel patrols. Reliability is not always guaranteed and you will have some teething problems along the way. Also parts are not readily available and can be costly to purchase overseas and have shipped to Aus. It can be frustrating when you want a part, filter or item that has to be ordered and you cant just walk into supercheap or a dealership to purchase it.

I have had my vehicle converted since feb 2014 and racked up almost 95k in that time. For the most part it has been trouble free, however it has not been without issues. Especially in a remote location outside of normal business hours and you require assistance that no one else can provide unless they have intimate knowledge of your chosen engine, this can test your faith a little, and also make you wish you had of chosen an engine that is widely used in Aus such as the 4.2TD or a Toyota 4.2TD 1Hz or whatever it is called.

If you do a lot of remote touring away from civilisation i would strongly suggest one of the above motors, which will give you similar performance and reliability but can also be repaired or diagnosed at almost any regional town with parts either readily available or within a reasonable time frame.

My 2 cents based on a patrol with a different engine.
Aside from a parts issue, which can affect any engine/vehicle, obviously some more than others, the biggest hurdle for getting assistance in remote areas is the ability to be able to diagnose issues. As the level of complexity goes up the possibility of diagnosing a problem with electronics goes down. I know that modern electronics have become more reliable but damage a under body wire or get water where it's not supposed to be you can find yourself stranded pretty quickly.

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
280 Posts
Aside from a parts issue, which can affect any engine/vehicle, obviously some more than others, the biggest hurdle for getting assistance in remote areas is the ability to be able to diagnose issues. As the level of complexity goes up the possibility of diagnosing a problem with electronics goes down. I know that modern electronics have become more reliable but damage a under body wire or get water where it's not supposed to be you can find yourself stranded pretty quickly.

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk
Yep exact reason why i spent the money on a EFI Live scanner/fault logger/code reader clearer device thingy.
 

·
Master Coalroller
nissan
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
Alright alright this is not a conversion comparison thread, but a 6.5T v 6.5NA cost effective question.

So it might be safe to say that the difference between mild modded turbo 6.5 engine to mild modded NA 6.5 engine would be similar in driving/ownership to the same in Nissan 4.2T and 4.2 engines.

I like driving the TD42 NA a lot. And having driven both 6.5 in T and NA guise I'd say from my experience is that it's very similar to the difference in Nissan engines. Especially the complications that arise with heat and tuning.
That fuel figure of yours rgren2 is impressive. The guy who was to sell me that effy with the 6.2 said he was getting 18-20 MPG which is I think 10-13LHK on 35" BFG tyres.

I get 14.8-15.5 LHK with manual trans, 35" tyres and 3.5 diffs from my 6.5T. Took a while though. The early years were 18+ LHK lol
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top