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Long long ago in a country far far away...

Another patrol, another death wobble.

Wheel bearings good, preload correct
King pin bearings good, preload correct
Ball joints good
Tyres good, no feathering or scolloping.
Rims good
Wheels balanced
Wheels aligned, mostly. LH castor +1.2° extra RH +1.7° extra RH K.P.I. -0.5° extra
Springs were 2" raised receded to OEM height.
Shockers are good
New steering damper
Control arm bushes good
Engine mounts good
Gearbox mounts good

Wobble starts usually about 75-80km/h
Hotter days equals less wobbles
Dirt road unless hard and dead smooth no wobble
Some days able to drive through it and it goes away anywhere from 105-130km/h
Biggest head effer, when put into high 4wd wobble all but disappears
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Mate death wobbles have been done to death there are numerous threads on it and a poll for top 10 in he archives, I would dare to say one of the aspects you posted is maybe not as good as it should be.
Start point you mention is pretty average, if I'm reading what you say correctly the caster looks very low.
 

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Long long ago in a country far far away...

Another patrol, another death wobble.

Wheel bearings good, preload correct
King pin bearings good, preload correct
Ball joints good
Tyres good, no feathering or scolloping.
Rims good
Wheels balanced
Wheels aligned, mostly. LH castor +1.2° extra RH +1.7° extra RH K.P.I. -0.5° extra
Springs were 2" raised receded to OEM height.
Shockers are good
New steering damper
Control arm bushes good
Engine mounts good
Gearbox mounts good

Wobble starts usually about 75-80km/h
Hotter days equals less wobbles
Dirt road unless hard and dead smooth no wobble
Some days able to drive through it and it goes away anywhere from 105-130km/h
Biggest head effer, when put into high 4wd wobble all but disappears
I recently put a different set of light truck tyres on mine. Death wobbles just come from no where at the above mentioned speeds and my vehicle is 3 years old and has only done a touch over 30k.
I rebalance the tyres but made no difference. I can tell you death wobbles on the Bruce highway is downright scary!
I replaced the rubber Bush on the front panhard and death wobble has stopped, but I can still feel a wobble in the car and steering.
Put my old set of muddies on last week to go offroad and bugger me. It drives perfectly! Not even the slightest wiggle in the steering wheel!
So I guess it is actually the tyres that are most of the issue!

Hope this helps
 

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Hi Team,
along with all the issues that can cause death wobbles I offer the following on tyres from a mates experience with his, at the time, near new XY GT HO Falcon.
He had new tyres put on it and suffered wheel balance issues--several re-balances did nothing--he called in to an old school servo for petrol one day and an old codger came out to serve the petrol--remember when you got full driveway service-- and inquired about Gary's car.
Mate related the issue to be told that his tyres most likely would be out of round and that the servo had a tyre grinder inside that could true them up--mate was unsure about this news--sure enough after grinding the tread area true and re-balancing the issue never returned.

Maybe jack up each wheel in turn and check the tread circumference for roundness after a short run to warm the tyres and get the overnight flat spots out of them.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
 

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Lets be clear first. Death wobble vs Wheel shimmy or vibration is two different things

Death wobble is dangerous as car will violently go all crazy.
Wheel shimmy like a wheel balance is just steering wheel or slight vibration felt through car at certain speed.


Electric Diesel

Yes wheels and tyres look good.
I changed all bushes too. Trailing arms, castor, panhard, king pin bearings etc.

I been through this with 35 inch tyres.

In the end I didnt want to admit it but it was the tyres that caused the vibration wobble at 90kmh and up.

Once I went to better tyres on 35 inch. It was gone!

Please if you can , Try a nother set of wheels and tyres .
 
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I had issues with wobbles. Near drove me nuts. Turned out it was my MT Extremes. Can't balance those very well. I had clicking from the locking hubs too.
When I had to change tyres for a road trip, there was complete silence and no wobble.

I'm looking into balancing beads if I fit the monsters back on though.
 

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Hi Team,
along with all the issues that can cause death wobbles I offer the following on tyres from a mates experience with his, at the time, near new XY GT HO Falcon.
He had new tyres put on it and suffered wheel balance issues--several re-balances did nothing--he called in to an old school servo for petrol one day and an old codger came out to serve the petrol--remember when you got full driveway service-- and inquired about Gary's car.
Mate related the issue to be told that his tyres most likely would be out of round and that the servo had a tyre grinder inside that could true them up--mate was unsure about this news--sure enough after grinding the tread area true and re-balancing the issue never returned.

Maybe jack up each wheel in turn and check the tread circumference for roundness after a short run to warm the tyres and get the overnight flat spots out of them.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
That's a really interesting point Eddie. I watch the fellow rebalance my tyres using a finger attachment (as opposed to the centre cone attachement) and the tyres are not perfectly round. He balanced the to 0 (perfectly balanced) but could definately see they were not perfectly round as it spun. I wonder if I rotated the tyre a quarter or half turn on the rim, would it make any difference?
 

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I tried that spinning the tyres on the rims. I was running sunraysia dynamic d. It was fine with Kumho KL7. then I went with 35 inch comforser cf3000. We tried balancing 4 times. Spinning tyres on rims. Finger balancing twice. everytime to 0!
I knew rims were fine as they were on the KL7 Kumho.
Then changed all bushes even though they werent worn.
Was getting frustrated.

In the end. New set of Kumho mt51 went on.
for 35 inch. It felt so nice again. No vibration wobble shimmy. 10 hour drive up north for holidays was a pleasure.
 
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Lets be clear first. Death wobble vs Wheel shimmy or vibration is two different things

Death wobble is dangerous as car will violently go all crazy.
Wheel shimmy like a wheel balance is just steering wheel or slight vibration felt through car at certain speedn
Totally agree drgtr. Big different between an unbalanced wheel and a death wobble that throws the vehicle from side to side rendering the vehicle almost impossible to control.

Years ago I put a set of new BFG's on my gu. I went back to the tyre mob 3 times to politely complain about the violent shake in the steering. They couldnt find anything wrong and rebalanced the tyres each time. They then put a couple of different tyres on the same rims and the shake just went away. They called the BFG rep who promptly told them to take the tyres off and refund my money!
I put a set of 4 rib Mickey Thomsons on and didnt have any further issues.

That said, I know of people running BFG's on their patrols with no issues. Hell I even ran a set on my new GU for a while (although they were 17inch)with no issues.
 
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Totally agree drgtr. Big different between an unbalanced wheel and a death wobble that throws the vehicle from side to side rendering the vehicle almost impossible to control.

Years ago I put a set of new BFG's on my gu. I went back to the tyre mob 3 times to politely complain about the violent shake in the steering. They couldnt find anything wrong and rebalanced the tyres each time. They then put a couple of different tyres on the same rims and the shake just went away. They called the BFG rep who promptly told them to take the tyres off and refund my money!
I put a set of 4 rib Mickey Thomsons on and didnt have any further issues.

That said, I know of people running BFG's on their patrols with no issues. Hell I even ran a set on my new GU for a while (although they were 17inch)with no issues.
Im starting to think with 33 inch and 35inch they must be perfect because at that size you can feel the inperfections especially when they are out of round from factory.
at 31 inch and smaller you cant really feel imperfections
 

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35's especially are notoriously hard to balance and whilst tolerances are very good these days some tyres are just very hard to balance. Especially heavy tyres, read strong multiple plies and the tyres we tend to love. Had a shop tell me years ago that the MT MTZ's were a notoriously hard tyre to balance. Oh and tyres are obviously not necessarily alwasy perfect because I believe that little dot on the sidewall marks the heavy or light spot (can't remember) for the fitters to put that opposite the valve assembly to help balance out. I've had a tyre shop spin and flip a couple MTZ's a couple of times to try and reduce the large amount of weights it was going to take to balance them.
Father in law had some skinny (on RB30 GU) Goodyear H/T based tyres put on several years ago that had to be ripped off a few K's later as they were out of round. Either wasn't noticed, ignored or they went out after a bit of use. That was a 205 or 215 whatever the RBGU had on the tubeless 16" rims, certainly not you would expect as a difficult tyre.

I agree too shimmy is nothing at all like a true death wobble. Haven't had it on the Patrol thankfully but experienced it on a Jeep that could throw you off the road and that was just one non descript pothole on an otherwise flat stretch of the Bruce Highway between Sunny Coast and Bris.
 

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example of a death wobble lol
 

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underneath
 

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While shimmy is your steering wheel vibration or body vibration.
due to wheel/tyre/balancing.

As fester says. im lucky I never had the death wobble but that shimmy issue pissed me off to no end until I sucked it up and bought different tyres that could be balanced.
So to the original poster.

Please check with another set of wheels and tyres. Preferably standard size wheels and tyres which are hub centric too . not lug centric steel wheel.
 

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Haha, I've never seen footage before. No wonder it's so scary inside the cab and there is no driving through it. The Jeep are so bad because their front arms are so short to begin with that geometry goes out the window so quick. Plus I think the pressed arms lack rigidity and provide little resistance.
 

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I found with tyres that are hard to balance like maxxis creepy crawlers 37" come good with ceramic balance beads
These tyres went from being scary to drive with at speed to quiet reasonable
Plus you can use the beads over again when you get new tyres
 

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Ive had those sort of death wobbles from the panhard bolt at the diff end coming loose. Happened many times until i tightened it till i thought it would snap off.
Anyway as the wobble doesnt go away until the car comes almost to a complete stop and jumping on the brakes only makes things worse. I found out by the fact it happened a couple of times down a reasonably windy hill that if you throw the car into a corner pretty hard it can stop the wobble.

On the topic of wheel shimmy i remember reading something by oldmav about wheel offset playing a big part in all of this. I cant exactly remember the details.
 

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I found with tyres that are hard to balance like maxxis creepy crawlers 37" come good with ceramic balance beads
These tyres went from being scary to drive with at speed to quiet reasonable
Plus you can use the beads over again when you get new tyres
With those comforsers I was getting sooo frustrated and desperate I was considering balance beads. Didnt want to believe new tyres would be like that.
A quick swap with customers set to test and right away I was happy lol
 
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Ive had those sort of death wobbles from the panhard bolt at the diff end coming loose. Happened many times until i tightened it till i thought it would snap off.
Anyway as the wobble doesnt go away until the car comes almost to a complete stop and jumping on the brakes only makes things worse. I found out by the fact it happened a couple of times down a reasonably windy hill that if you throw the car into a corner pretty hard it can stop the wobble.

On the topic of wheel shimmy i remember reading something by oldmav about wheel offset playing a big part in all of this. I cant exactly remember the details.

Ive had those sort of death wobbles from the panhard bolt at the diff end coming loose. Happened many times until i tightened it till i thought it would snap off.
Anyway as the wobble doesnt go away until the car comes almost to a complete stop and jumping on the brakes only makes things worse. I found out by the fact it happened a couple of times down a reasonably windy hill that if you throw the car into a corner pretty hard it can stop the wobble.

On the topic of wheel shimmy i remember reading something by oldmav about wheel offset playing a big part in all of this. I cant exactly remember the details.
Offset, tyre size. will exaggerate the shimmy more if there is a problem. It will not cause the problem itself.
. I was running negative 22 inch steel wheels.
the Kumho Mt51 balanced really well. I was happy with them.
 

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Haha, I've never seen footage before. No wonder it's so scary inside the cab and there is no driving through it. The Jeep are so bad because their front arms are so short to begin with that geometry goes out the window so quick. Plus I think the pressed arms lack rigidity and provide little resistance.

hahaha gotta love the jeep. They are the most common for death wobbles
 
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