[GUzdute]

And now to wait for Lee's scientific and essay sized reply.

 

[Leethal]

Complete Bullshart. Have never found a bleed resistor in a motor or a metal halide or flouro fitting or a switchmode supply. Have been bitten a few times, no big deal.

I couldn’t give a flying fcuk what you have it haven’t found, I merely stated what is required to be there.

AS3000 4.15.3.1

‘Capacitiors with values greater than 0.5uF shall be provided with a discharge path’

etc etc etc

Ok it doesn’t necessarily have to be a resistor in all circumstances, the windings of an appliance can firm a permanent discharge path for instance 4.15.3.2(a)

Up to a 650V rated cap it must be 50v or less after 60 seconds, otherwise it does not comply.

Not too many grey areas in the bible.

 

[Haggie]

They used to look after me really well once but i changed jobs about 7 years ago and my account has become inactive. The front desk guy doesn't seem to have any control over pricing any more either so now i pay the same as everyone else

Haymans are slowly driving me away as a customer. Used to be 10k a month. Sick of chasing up outrageous price increases. I can purchase the same two items on say two different days of the week and the pricing will be different?

Rant over have you dropped the belt off the motor yet?

 

[trev zd30]

I can purchase the same two items on say two different days of the week and the pricing will be different?

I used to question everything, and once you'd bought it once that price was locked in for future purchases of the same item. But I was on contract so any cost saving was in my pocket and if it went the other way I couldn't pass it on

Rant over have you dropped the belt off the motor yet?

No not yet. It is easy enough to turn by hand though

 

[Haggie]

I used to question everything, and once you'd bought it once that price was locked in for future purchases of the same item. But I was on contract so any cost saving was in my pocket and if it went the other way I couldn't pass it on



No not yet. It is easy enough to turn by hand though

My pricing is supposed to be fixed as well. All goes out the window every time a supplier to them has an increase.

 

[Mickhead]

I couldn’t give a flying fcuk what you have it haven’t found, I merely stated what is required to be there.

AS3000 4.15.3.1

‘Capacitiors with values greater than 0.5uF shall be provided with a discharge path’

etc etc etc

Ok it doesn’t necessarily have to be a resistor in all circumstances, the windings of an appliance can firm a permanent discharge path for instance 4.15.3.2(a)

Up to a 650V rated cap it must be 50v or less after 60 seconds, otherwise it does not comply.

Not too many grey areas in the bible.

No worries mate, so now a reliable BLEED RESISTOR has become a discharge path. On part of a circuit that can fail. I must be imagining the zaps I have had from circuits that have been de energised for a lot longer than 50 seconds.
Dont forget also that there is a lot of older shyt out there which does not conform with current standards.
You go by your rule book, I will go by what I have personally found. Just letting people know whats out there waiting for them.
As I said its very rare that I have seen a bleed resistor, last time was on some huge caps on a large teco vsd.
So dont make statements saying you should be right because Australian Standards say you will be.
So I dont give a rats arse about your paper based opinion 😀

 

[trev zd30]

Ok clever people. I have replaced both caps and still no joy. At least when I replaced the white one it attempted to go.

@Haggie I've run the belt off. Motor seems to be happy moving through startup and running, then clearly moves back to start when almost stopped again.
With the belt on, if I give help turning the big pulley it will start and continue to run, but will not start on it's own. Sounds like it wants to but doesnt seem to have enough power. With the belt off neither pulley is difficult to turn by hand.

Suggestions?

 

[Overboard]

Suggestions?

This really sounds like you might have some wires the wrong way on the motor start capacitor. Did you take a photo of it before removing the old one?

 

[Mickhead]

Ok clever people. I have replaced both caps and still no joy. At least when I replaced the white one it attempted to go.

@Haggie I've run the belt off. Motor seems to be happy moving through startup and running, then clearly moves back to start when almost stopped again.
With the belt on, if I give help turning the big pulley it will start and continue to run, but will not start on it's own. Sounds like it wants to but doesnt seem to have enough power. With the belt off neither pulley is difficult to turn by hand.

Suggestions?

CSCR motors usually have a centrifugal switch at the arse end of the motor, it makes a click when the motor gets up to speed and disconnects the start cap which provides the extra torque. Even if yours clicks, check to see it has not gone open circuit.

 

[trev zd30]

This really sounds like you might have some wires the wrong way on the motor start capacitor. Did you take a photo of it before removing the old one?

Yes OB. Took a pick and referred to it when replacing it. I will check it again though🙂

CSCR motors usually have a centrifugal switch at the arse end of the motor, it makes a click when the motor gets up to speed and disconnects the start cap which provides the extra torque. Even if yours clicks, check to see it has not gone open circuit.

I understand what an open circuit is but I wouldn't know which wires to test. Any clues?

 

[Mickhead]

Yes OB. Took a pick and referred to it when replacing it. I will check it again though🙂



I understand what an open circuit is but I wouldn't know which wires to test. Any clues?

Too many variables to tell you what wires to check, pull the back off the motor and inspect the switch and put the meter across the terminals, and physically check its operation.
Discharge the caps with a screwdriver! And be safe 😀

 

[Overboard]

I'm pretty sure that an open circuit start switch on a cap start motor will mean the motor won't start at all rather than start slowly.

 

[rustyrod]

You said "I have replaced the white capacitor that appeared to be not right and it now runs but it doesn't start up as strong as it used to"
So put the old black one back
If it goes back to "doesn't start up as strong as it used to" then the new cap could be faulty
But if it doesn't start without help then maybe the wires got crossed up during the change over.

Moving on to another test > I expect it hums when you turn it on? > then starts and runs IF you help it by turning the pulley you said
So OK If you"help" it backwards > will it start and run backwards?
Then you surly have a start problem

try these then post your findings

 

[trev zd30]

You said "I have replaced the white capacitor that appeared to be not right and it now runs but it doesn't start up as strong as it used to"

I meant it is slow to start now but used to start easily before all these troubles.

I swapped the old black cap back in and made no difference. Still need to help it get started

Moving on to another test > I expect it hums when you turn it on? > then starts and runs IF you help it by turning the pulley you said

Yes definately hums but wont run backwards if I try to spin it in reverse.

I didnt replace the first cap that died a couple of years ago but I'm pretty confident I've put wiring back to where it was this time. It hasn't done a lit of work in the last couple years but was starting ok .

 

[rustyrod]

I meant it is slow to start now but used to start easily before all these troubles.

I swapped the old black cap back in and made no difference. Still need to help it get started

Bugger!!! Time to kick the wheels and swear at it???


Yes definately hums but wont run backwards if I try to spin it in reverse.

Well that's very good, something positive

I didnt replace the first cap that died a couple of years ago but I'm pretty confident I've put wiring back to where it was this time. It hasn't done a lit of work in the last couple years but was starting ok .

Meaning you didn't actually do the original swap no worries

I'm looking after a motor that we had to fit the wrong cap and it is slow to start now for about a year. Have the correct cap but never seem to find the time to fit it

Beginning to wonder if your new and old black caps are almost dead

Can you wire both caps side by side > ie double up in Parallel, like 2 x 12v batteries but still only get 12 volts?

I'm sorry, without being able to poke my fingers in there I'm at a loss

Bit like my zd30 conked out and nobody can explain what wrong with it, idles but wont rev up, like your electric motor

Might be time to take yours to a motor rewind type electrician and hand over enough $s to buy a whole new compressor lol

 

[trev zd30]

Thanks for the reply @rustyrod

I doubled up the black caps in parallel (are the starter ones?) But didnt make any difference. Still wont start unless I help it. Dont mind the connecting wires. It's just stuff I had lying around

Also noted that my power tester says everything is safe as soon as I turn the power off at the plug. Screwdriver test confirms that. Does the power usually drain out of caps that quick?

 

[Foo]

When in doubt, use a hammer. Yeah I know, not much help but it would seem there is something else going on inside possibly?

Foo

 

[rustyrod]

Your wires are exactly what I would do
capacitor start capacitor run motor - Bing images
looks like it would drain quick

someone mentioned the centrifugal switch > can you hear one click when the motor slows down to stop?
test best done with belt off so can hear better

Motor capacitor - Wikipedia back to school?
then not all motors have that switch
anyway have a geko at all this
my analysis from that is either cap being not right will be the problem

 

[rustyrod]

quote [Over many years of use the capacitance of the capacitor drops; this is known as a "weak capacitor". As a result, the motor may fail to start or to run at full power.

 

[rustyrod]

I must have been lucky, I whacked the new cap in and bingo lots of times