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Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
So.
Yesterday we took the block, head, crankshaft, camshaft, pistons, and all the bearing caps to the engine builder.
Anyone guess what the consensus was?

Well basically @james008 that Barra to MK 5spd adapter you were talking about is looking very very appealing.


Alright, so the first thing he looked at was the liners, and commented on how one side of 4 of the liners had sunk down and was sitting pretty much flush with the block. Apparently a common thing to happen after a lot of k's. This was already causing some leaking combustion around the head gasket, but nothing made it completely past the thickness of the liners. So new liners are needed, and depending on whether they're finished or not, and how much he needs to do to the block in terms of decking and other work, it could end up costing anywhere from $600 to north of a grand. That's without actually buying the liners, and that's only for the liners.

He looked at the pistons too, and said they looked like they could easily have done a lot of kms, judging by the wear marks on the sides and I guess general look of the piston, and even though the gudgeon pins feel great he said he wouldn't use the pistons again. So even if I got new liners I'd need new pistons too. The rings obviously are no good, they're old, worn, standard size rings flopping around in a honed bore.

Very likely the crank would need grinding and oversized bearings sourced, and new cam bearings are in order as the old ones are pretty worn, another sign the engine has been around the block a couple times.

The head looks good except the exhaust valves are burnt, he said it's from burning oil so I'm not sure if that's from the Castrol activ 2T 2 stroke oil that I've been running or the undersized pistons and rings for the bore.

Oh yeah @james008 he said oversized stuff would be aftermerket, he doesn't know for certain that it exists but there'll be something to suit somewhere, or something like that.

I dunno, there's a lot of expensive work involved that I just can't afford, plain and simple, seems like it's more expensive to properly rebuild an SD33T than I originally thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
So not sure where to go from here, but there's an SD33T, missing a head, that Dad and I will go and have a look at next week to see if the bottom end is better than mine, if it's good I'll use my head and the good bits from my engine and use the donor as a good bottom end, but if it's not I may have to start looking at other options.
This is about where that gearbox adapter looks pretty good, although it sounds like it'll be expensive.
I do still have the divorced transfer from the wagon (being originally an L28 auto, and later a 351 auto) that I can use to make conversions easier, and I also have the B&M shifter if I go that way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
they've put a new head on this thing the last time it was apart, which is awesome news, I'm genuinely really happy about that, means almost no matter what else happens, this engine is going back in the MK 😁
I forgot I said this 🤦‍♂️
Seems like I've landed in the "almost" corner
 
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· Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
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Did the engine builder measure the liner protrusion? Spec is 0.02-0.09mm above the deck surface which is pretty close to almost level lol. You can get a rough estimate with a straight edge and feeler gauges but need a dial indicator to measure accurately.
If you do liners, semi finished is the better option IMO, but more costly. But if yours are within that 0.02mm window and have no bad vertical scoring I wouldn't feel bad about reusing them.

I wouldn't expect oversize pistons and rings to be easy to find, if they exist at all given the SD has replaceable liners, oversize bearings are easily available though, even genuine.

And if you still have the divorced transfer, a barra would be much nicer and better geared with a 6spd auto rather than adapting to the 5spd manual. Rebuilding diesels is an expensive exercise, but so is an engine conversion.
 

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Did the engine builder measure the liner protrusion
Hey James, we talked at length with this guy over his lunch break. He was happy with the visual look of the bores but was a little worried they would be out of spec for round. There was plenty if evidence of blow by past the pistons (which is easy to see now he's pointed it out). We havent actually measured anything yet though.

With regard to how the liners are sitting, some of them look like they are in a little crooked. One side seems to sit proud of the deck whilst the other is dead level at best. There is also evidence of leaking past the head gasket in the really low spots.
He said we could bolt to back together with a new head gasket and it would hold up for a while but ultimately it would fail again in the same spot.
So without throwing a whole pile of cash at this block we are not sure it's worth the effort. It's done a lot of work as evident in the cam shaft bearings. They are really worn (I guess they weren't replaced the last time it was "rebuilt"😬) One option we are looking at is finding a bottom end that's in much better condition. They come up from time to time here in QLD 👍🏻
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Hey James, we talked at length with this guy over his lunch break. He was happy with the visual look of the bores but was a little worried they would be out of spec for round. There was plenty if evidence of blow by past the pistons (which is easy to see now he's pointed it out). We havent actually measured anything yet though.

With regard to how the liners are sitting, some of them look like they are in a little crooked. One side seems to sit proud of the deck whilst the other is dead level at best. There is also evidence of leaking past the head gasket in the really low spots.
He said we could bolt to back together with a new head gasket and it would hold up for a while but ultimately it would fail again in the same spot.
So without throwing a whole pile of cash at this block we are not sure it's worth the effort. It's done a lot of work as evident in the cam shaft bearings. They are really worn (I guess they weren't replaced the last time it was "rebuilt") One option we are looking at is finding a bottom end that's in much better condition. They come up from time to time here in QLD
Oh and another thing, he confirmed that the engine had been sitting for a fair while when he noticed the round marks on the big end bearings:

Apparently those are condensation marks.

How long does the engine’s need to sit on a pallet outside covered by an open-front shed to get condensation all the way in the bearings? Anyone know?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

· Rust is just natural weight reduction.
1986 SD33T SWB
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Hey James, we talked at length with this guy over his lunch break. He was happy with the visual look of the bores but was a little worried they would be out of spec for round. There was plenty if evidence of blow by past the pistons (which is easy to see now he's pointed it out). We havent actually measured anything yet though.

With regard to how the liners are sitting, some of them look like they are in a little crooked. One side seems to sit proud of the deck whilst the other is dead level at best. There is also evidence of leaking past the head gasket in the really low spots.
He said we could bolt to back together with a new head gasket and it would hold up for a while but ultimately it would fail again in the same spot.
So without throwing a whole pile of cash at this block we are not sure it's worth the effort. It's done a lot of work as evident in the cam shaft bearings. They are really worn (I guess they weren't replaced the last time it was "rebuilt"😬) One option we are looking at is finding a bottom end that's in much better condition. They come up from time to time here in QLD 👍🏻
Uneven liners are a new one, I've not seen or heard of that in an SD before. I suppose if one side has dropped or been over compressed that may have affected the roundness of the liner which would promote blow by. Perhaps that could be a result of the cylinder head being torqued incorrectly, or uneven clamp pressure. Or possibly severe overheating and the piston has dragged the liner?

Either way, it sounds like this bottom end will require replacement liners, so a decent 2nd hand engine could be a more cost effective option.

Oh and another thing, he confirmed that the engine had been sitting for a fair while when he noticed the round marks on the big end bearings:

Apparently those are condensation marks.

How long does the engine’s need to sit on a pallet outside covered by an open-front shed to get condensation all the way in the bearings? Anyone know?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Could be a week, could be a year. Depends on how the engine was stored, what precautions were taken to prevent moisture ingress, humidity when in storage, how much moisture was present when the engine was assembled etc etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Alrighty, went and got the new (half) engine yesterday, got a couple things to say about it.

Firstly, for $200, I got another injector pump, which is probably worth that on it's own, another crank, cam, block with (seemingly?) good liners, oil cooler, water pump, basically everything below the head, because the engine didn't come with a head.

The story behind this engine, is that it was in a Patrol with 460,278 kms on the odo, which a young bloke, bit older than me, bought as a parts car for his wagon. When he bought it though it didn't come with a head, and the P/O said he'd have to get the head back from somewhere, I don't remember where, and this young bloke could come pick it up a while later. Well he messaged the seller a while later and it turns out the nasty bugger sold the head on him, even though he paid for it, so he was stuck with the parts wagon with no head on the engine.
So he pulled the engine out, not sure what to do with it, and it sat undercover for about a year, with oily rags covering the deck, before he just decided to sell it. He's getting rid of most of his MQ parts anyway, we had a good long chat and I'll definitely be back over to grab some other parts. There's a brown MQ centre console that I was eyeing off the whole time 👀

He actually started up his wagon while we were there, it has 600 odd thousand k's on it, engine's had bottom end bearings replaced at 500ish, and it's never had any extra fuel go in or anything. It's been on 2 laps around the country before he bought it, and when he started it up it just purred like a kitten. I must be used to SD's that aren't in great condition because it didn't have any of what I now presume was piston knock against the liners that mine had, and none of the badly adjusted tappet noise that the ute has. Never had aftermarket gauges or anything in it, just completely factory engine driven like a car. I guess that's what happens when you leave well enough alone, it just lasts.

So anyway, now I've got 3 of these damn engines in the shed:
Automotive tire Gas Engineering Machine Auto part


The new one on the stand:
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Tread

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive engine gasket Gas Automotive wheel system
Automotive engine gasket Automotive tire Engineering Gas Auto part


The good thing about this engine too, is the block doesn't seem to have ever been decked, all of the galleries still have rounded edges, whereas on my old one they all had a sharp lip. There's also numbers that I can see in this block that I couldn't on mine, so they got decked out on mine, as well as numbers on the pistons. The pistons are marked "C2 T" and are in far far better condition than the old ones:
Helmet Automotive tire Sports equipment Bicycle helmet Personal protective equipment

Automotive tire Gas Motor vehicle Auto part Machine


Here's a video demonstrating that there's no twisting movement in the pistons, but there does seem to be uneven amounts of movement when comparing 2 pistons. First is piston #2, then #5, which both sit on the same plane:

The bores also look better than mine by a long shot. They don't have the same level of honing marks in them, but they're probably factory if the rest of the engine is, and they only have barely visible scoring on a couple of cylinders, mostly ring gap scoring.
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Continued in second post due to 10 file limit:
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
no.1 big end cap (coast side) bearing, first the one out of the new engine, then my previous one:
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Similar, but the new engine definitely has less wear, and if the 460,000 kms on the new engine's odo is anywhere near correct my old engine must've had soooo many kms on it before, and since, it was rebuilt. Even makes me wonder if it was on the first rebuild to be honest. No way to tell though so no use speculating.

And conrod (power side) bearing, again the new one then my old one:
Art Gas Nickel Metal Auto part

Sleeve Nickel Tin Fashion accessory Silver

As you can see the new one appears to just be starting to wear into the copper layer, but the old one is quite worn too, despite having been replaced already. I will have to have another look at the new ones to see if they've been replaced or not. The pistons on the new one definitely fit nicer in the cylinders and don't have the twisting action the old ones had so the bottom end generally is in better condition which is good. If the cylinder hasn't been honed that also means the piston and ring will physically fit better inside, which is also good. The lack of scoring has me optimistic that the cylinder won't be out of round, so may not need much, if any, light honing.


And so I crack on with the SD33T mk2, I'll be pulling it down during the week to inspect everything more closely, but I'm quietly optimistic that it's generally in good condition, and this block combined with my head and some new parts inside will leave me with a very good engine.
 

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Alrighty, went and got the new (half) engine yesterday, got a couple things to say about it.

Firstly, for $200, I got another injector pump, which is probably worth that on it's own, another crank, cam, block with (seemingly?) good liners, oil cooler, water pump, basically everything below the head, because the engine didn't come with a head.

The story behind this engine, is that it was in a Patrol with 460,278 kms on the odo, which a young bloke, bit older than me, bought as a parts car for his wagon. When he bought it though it didn't come with a head, and the P/O said he'd have to get the head back from somewhere, I don't remember where, and this young bloke could come pick it up a while later. Well he messaged the seller a while later and it turns out the nasty bugger sold the head on him, even though he paid for it, so he was stuck with the parts wagon with no head on the engine.
So he pulled the engine out, not sure what to do with it, and it sat undercover for about a year, with oily rags covering the deck, before he just decided to sell it. He's getting rid of most of his MQ parts anyway, we had a good long chat and I'll definitely be back over to grab some other parts. There's a brown MQ centre console that I was eyeing off the whole time 👀

He actually started up his wagon while we were there, it has 600 odd thousand k's on it, engine's had bottom end bearings replaced at 500ish, and it's never had any extra fuel go in or anything. It's been on 2 laps around the country before he bought it, and when he started it up it just purred like a kitten. I must be used to SD's that aren't in great condition because it didn't have any of what I now presume was piston knock against the liners that mine had, and none of the badly adjusted tappet noise that the ute has. Never had aftermarket gauges or anything in it, just completely factory engine driven like a car. I guess that's what happens when you leave well enough alone, it just lasts.

So anyway, now I've got 3 of these damn engines in the shed:
View attachment 546638

The new one on the stand:
View attachment 546639
View attachment 546640 View attachment 546641

The good thing about this engine too, is the block doesn't seem to have ever been decked, all of the galleries still have rounded edges, whereas on my old one they all had a sharp lip. There's also numbers that I can see in this block that I couldn't on mine, so they got decked out on mine, as well as numbers on the pistons. The pistons are marked "C2 T" and are in far far better condition than the old ones:
View attachment 546642
View attachment 546643

Here's a video demonstrating that there's no twisting movement in the pistons, but there does seem to be uneven amounts of movement when comparing 2 pistons. First is piston #2, then #5, which both sit on the same plane:

The bores also look better than mine by a long shot. They don't have the same level of honing marks in them, but they're probably factory if the rest of the engine is, and they only have barely visible scoring on a couple of cylinders, mostly ring gap scoring.
View attachment 546657 View attachment 546658 View attachment 546659 View attachment 546660

Continued in second post due to 10 file limit:

Is that a crack in the second last photo?
 

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Good pickup...

It doesnt appear to be cracked but does have some decent scoring. It's by far the worst bore
Will need to pluck all the pistons and have a really good look
View attachment 546679
Possibly a broken ring, seen that before.
 

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Possibly a broken ring, seen that before.
Is it necessary to hone all the scoring out or will it 'survive' with a light hone and new rings?

I understand ideally you want it perfect but is it necessary?
 

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Is it necessary to hone all the scoring out or will it 'survive' with a light hone and new rings?

I understand ideally you want it perfect but is it necessary?
Yes it will survive, if I'm reading you correctly you want to put this engine together at a good price. I suppose the question is how will the pistons look when they come out? if they aren't good then you will need to go oversize and the decision is made for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Yes it will survive, if I'm reading you correctly you want to put this engine together at a good price. I suppose the question is how will the pistons look when they come out? if they aren't good then you will need to go oversize and the decision is made for you.
Yes, the goal is to do it right, but as you say at a good price.

So the next question I have then is if I go to supercheap and pick up one of these:
From what I'm reading just do 4-6 passes with it to get the cross-hatching back, I'll be able to use the same pistons and some new rings? Keeping in mind that I've found as James said earlier since liners can be bought I can't find any oversized pistons, so anything I do will be with standard sized everything. Just need to know if that will take too much material off to make it run like new with standard everything.
I read a lot about taking too much material off giving piston slap, which is probably why my old engine was so damn loud at idle.

The bottom end feels much tighter in this engine than my old one so it's likely not in need of a crank grind, but I may as well get it measured anyway to see. Maybe I'll take both cranks and see which is better; I'm absolutely betting on the new one.
If it's not in need of a regrind I'll order some new bearings, these seem decent enough and they can come in oversize as well if need be:
They also sell rings in standard or 0.50 oversize, but surely there's not even 50 thou thickness in the liner to bore out?
They also do cam bearings so I might get them regardless, they're cheap and probably a good thing to do:

Anyway, another thing I'm considering is head studs, I know you can get more even and higher torque across the head using studs, but not sure if it's worth trying to find some to suit the SD.

If I could build it like this I would, but that's for the future when I've got my career sorted out and some money lying around lol:
 
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Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
Mainly I’m assuming leaving the bores as they are now would not be appropriate?


Off-topic, something of interest to note about the crankshaft of the new engine is the significant amount of material that's been drilled out to balance it. My understanding is that from factory the casting is designed to be fairly well balanced and then small amounts of material are taken out to fix any imperfections.
Here's the centre counterweight on my old engine:
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Only a light amount of skimming off of it, and that may just be to remove sharp casting edges, or something, I don't know.
And here's the same counterweight on the new engine:
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Automotive design Hood

Lots of material has been removed, also from the 2 smaller weights as well. I don't know if this is factory balancing or not, but it seems odd to me that the 2 castings would be so uneven? I know casting metal isn't a perfect science and imperfections happen, but this seems like a fair bit to me.
Anyway I wonder if it's affected the strength of the casting at all?
 
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