[truckster]

The Chinese, they get **** done! and dont do things by 1/2 measures...

Talking to a mate working there at monent on MSN.

I went to a port to do a site visit a couple of weeks ago, it is brand new! They built a 32km 6 lane freeway to this island off of the coast. Knocked most of the rock into the sea and created a deep sea port out of it

6 lanes bridge going for 32km out into the sea for a new port! Mind blowing...

This port is less than a year old and it alone does 30% more shipping that all of Austraila with import and export combined in the first year

It is 1.6km of wharf of a total of 5km that will be finished by the middle of next year. And that is just one of the ports in Shanghai! It ****s with your head.

China has a couple of thousand of these ports if not more

Now in Aussie, how many years/decades would it take to build a 32klm 3 lane freeway, planning meetings, court challenges, let alone a 6 lane bridge... how many union disputes would there be... how much would the budget blow out by on the original quote - 4x? 5x?

China gets **** done.. Or you get shot.

 

[gudc98]

Australian drafters/engineers are probably smarter than most countries. You didn't state how many bulidings/roads/bridges stuff up in china compared to Australia, believe me you will be suprised.

DUBAI and the US are leading engineers for these stuff I imagine. It's not always about speed, its about the quality and time.

EDIT:
Don't quote me on this, but this is what I believe.

 

[paul.helm]

Got to agree 100% with you. Even though I only spent 9 weeks in China a while back, the progress is out standing and could be seen in a 9 week period.

The government are pouring millions of dollars into their infrastructure. The speed is amazing in which they build these projects too. Unfortunately for us, we will never be as quick as the Chinese in developing their infrastructure, too many union, pay issues and government corruption down under.

OH&S has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[paul.helm]

Australian drafters/engineers are probably smarter than most countries including CHINA. You didn't state how many bulidings/roads/bridges stuff up in china compared to Australia, believe me you will be suprised.

DUBAI and the US are leading engineers for these stuff I imagine. It's not always about speed, its about the quality and time.

EDIT:
Don't quote me on this, but this is what I believe.

Very true with their intellect, but they employ/contract the smart people from overseas to do the design work, development etc as well as use offshore equipment when building these massive bridges/boring tunnels throught the mountains.

However, I did see some bodgy work where a freeway was washed off the side of a mountain during a typhoon where the road water runoff design was shocking and hence why the section of the freeway was washed away.

 

[gudc98]

Very true with their intellect, but they employ/contract the smart people from overseas to do the design work, development etc as well as use offshore equipment when building these massive bridges/boring tunnels throught the mountains.

However, I did see some bodgy work where a freeway was washed off the side of a mountain during a typhoon where the road water runoff design was shocking and hence why the section of the freeway was washed away.

Hmm true, well said.

But really, I'm not offending trucksters posts but comparing AUSTRALIAN quality to CHINESE quality is not even a comparison, Australia engineers are my faviourates,

Australian standards, workplace policies, engineers just set a "better" example than chinese stats IMHO. The blokes here do a good job, with a fair time given considering the weather here can get bs.

Although they are very well knowledged engineers in China, but come on the ammount of death they have on a work project, stuff ups and a lot of other casualties is really scary.

 

[paul.helm]

I partially agree, In Aus, we have the strictest OHS policies in the world which should protect us/our peers, but we still have poeple dyinig or near misses everyday in the working environment though.

While working in one of our factories over there, you would be horrified to see the way in which they connect electrical cables from Buss bars to machnie/plant equipment. But the funny thing is, there are no LTI's at the plant, even basic PPE is not provided and no injuries. Here in Aus, people are attempting to get workers Compensation any way possible, In China, no chance so they don't injure themselves and use "common sense", funny how they actually use common sense, here we protect the stupid.

I also had to work in 46DegC temps as their factory had no air conditioning/cooling like how my current plant has here in Sydney, we would stop working at 40degC here & it gets down to 14 deg in their factory as to 22deg here. So they actually put up with a fair bit of temperature variation and unfair conditions too.


Just a question or two for you.
Think of all the Chinese made products that you currently have starting from all clothing/footware then move into house hold products. Sure they may be $hit, but are they Aus made? and why do we buy Off shore products? because they are cheaper to manufacture off shore than in Aus unfortunately.

As for quality, well sure they are not the best when they start off a new projects, but they soon pick up the required quality standards if they want to ship off shore.

 

[OSH]

i know this is WAY off topic,
but talking about OH&S policies...

the bobbies in the UK, have to go through 14 different OH&S policies before they can randomly pull someone over for a trafic stop.

thats ludicrus!

back on topic now,
please continue. haha

 

[gudc98]

I partially agree, In Aus, we have the strictest OHS policies in the world which should protect us/our peers, but we still have poeple dyinig or near misses everyday in the working environment though.

While working in one of our factories over there, you would be horrified to see the way in which they connect electrical cables from Buss bars to machnie/plant equipment. But the funny thing is, there are no LTI's at the plant, even basic PPE is not provided and no injuries. Here in Aus, people are attempting to get workers Compensation any way possible, In China, no chance so they don't injure themselves and use "common sense", funny how they actually use common sense, here we protect the stupid.

I also had to work in 46DegC temps as their factory had no air conditioning/cooling like how my current plant has here in Sydney, we would stop working at 40degC here & it gets down to 14 deg in their factory as to 22deg here. So they actually put up with a fair bit of temperature variation and unfair conditions too.


Just a question or two for you.
Think of all the Chinese made products that you currently have starting from all clothing/footware then move into house hold products. Sure they may be $hit, but are they Aus made? and why do we buy Off shore products? because they are cheaper to manufacture off shore than in Aus unfortunately.

As for quality, well sure they are not the best when they start off a new projects, but they soon pick up the required quality standards if they want to ship off shore.

Thank you heaps for the detailed paragraph, great to learn .

But the question regarding on chinese made products has nothing to do with roads and civil construction.

I know for a fact that before any projects in Australia, WPHS will take first place in a time schedule, that takes atleast 1-2months to get over with. Thats for stage 1 of the project.

WPHS is mainly the reason "why" our Australian projects lack in speed, but it is a good thing. I really want to be home safer than finshing the job quicker.

My main point is never judge Australian speeds for civil construction (truckster), we have our own average pace and it is completly differenct to other countries. Let China do there crap 1/2 faster, as long as our roads stay safe.

But Paul, your points stand out. Thanks for the paragraphs mate.

 

[gudc98]

i know this is WAY off topic,
but talking about OH&S policies...

the bobbies in the UK, have to go through 14 different OH&S policies before they can randomly pull someone over for a trafic stop.

thats ludicrus!

back on topic now,
please continue. haha

hhahahahahahahhahah, where did you find that? pm me

 

[truckster]

Let China do there crap 1/2 faster, as long as our roads stay safe..

half faster? more like 5000% faster... According to many threads on here, not everything in/out of china is lower quality than the outside world.

FWIW mate works for a company in China, (he is doing all the scale model buildings to demonstrate what they will look like for Dubai's expansion) for the work his company is doing in Dubai - so the "leading engineering" is also from China. Some of his models fit 4x 40ft containers and cost over 250k with workin railroads, chairlifts, elevators and all.. Awesome to see.

 

[gudc98]

half faster? more like 5000% faster... According to many threads on here, not everything in/out of china is lower quality than the outside world.

FWIW mate works for a company in China, (he is doing all the scale model buildings to demonstrate what they will look like for Dubai's expansion) for the work his company is doing in Dubai - so the "leading engineering" is also from China. Some of his models fit 4x 40ft containers and cost over 250k with workin railroads, chairlifts, elevators and all.. Awesome to see.

Never knew that, great to know though.

But really, put any engineers with Australian standards, WPHS, weather, and other stuff and it will be always slower than Chinese, but I guarantee you the job will be safer and possibly better.

 

[paul.helm]

My main point is never judge Australian speeds for civil construction (truckster), we have our own average pace and it is completly differenct to other countries.

Still off topic.

Just of interest mate, how come when our government, being either state or federal do a road project it takes so long where as if its built by a contractor, it gets completed far quicker, in other words, state & federal are slow & private are fast.

Take the M7 toll way westen Sydney and compare it to the F3 north of Sydney, They appear to meet all OHS requirements but these contractors complete these major tasks like the M7 in half the time that the government would take to do the F3

While still within Aus using our current skilled work force & civil engineers, but why are they so different in times for completion?

I agree with Truckster, they get things done, but 10 times faster and don't care about stepping on peoples fingers.

 

[truckster]

I agree with Truckster, they get things done, but 10 times faster.

and 1/1000th the price.

which is why most of the world is heading there to get **** made.

 

[OSH]

hhahahahahahahhahah, where did you find that? pm me

one of my x work colleuges married a smoaking hot uk copper...
mind you, she's now a milf and looks not a day older then 23!

just general converstation, and it came up.
i think it might have something to do with the fact that, the only defencive weapon a PC carries is a batton!
ya gotta be in a special 'unit' called 'armed responce' to carry a gun,
and mind you they are not whimpy 9mm pistols, we are talking automatic aussult rifles.

 

[OSH]

Still off topic.

Just of interest mate, how come when our government, being either state or federal do a road project it takes so long where as if its built by a contractor, it gets completed far quicker, in other words, state & federal are slow & private are fast.

Take the M7 toll way westen Sydney and compare it to the F3 north of Sydney, They appear to meet all OHS requirements but these contractors complete these major tasks like the M7 in half the time that the government would take to do the F3

While still within Aus using our current skilled work force & civil engineers, but why are they so different in times for completion?

I agree with Truckster, they get things done, but 10 times faster and don't care about stepping on peoples fingers.

yeah dont talk too fast,
there is road works happening at an intersection on the OLD sturt highway in Berri..
its the intersection where Fletchers Freighters used to be, they are now bankrupt and non existant.
its about 100m stretch of the road, where they are doubling the width (4 lanes in total) to create a turn in lane, and a merging lane...

private contractors have been on the job for 5 months now, and its still not complete!
its not even half complete! by far.

its just a round circle of, south bound prep - let cars/trucks drive on it while we prep the north bound side, then oh ****.. cuz we let the trucks drive on the south bound prep, we gotta re prep it.. but while they are doing that, they are letting trucks drive on the alread preped north bound lane. round and round we go!

is it that hard fcukkerss,
prep the south bound lane, hot mix, let it set and then let us drive on it..
then move onto the north bound lane, hot mix, let it set and then open the road..

as ya can tell, gets me a little frustrated!

 

[gudc98]

Still off topic.

Just of interest mate, how come when our government, being either state or federal do a road project it takes so long where as if its built by a contractor, it gets completed far quicker, in other words, state & federal are slow & private are fast.

Take the M7 toll way westen Sydney and compare it to the F3 north of Sydney, They appear to meet all OHS requirements but these contractors complete these major tasks like the M7 in half the time that the government would take to do the F3

While still within Aus using our current skilled work force & civil engineers, but why are they so different in times for completion?

I agree with Truckster, they get things done, but 10 times faster and don't care about stepping on peoples fingers.

Good questions, I have little knowledge for these situations.

But my understanding is different organizations, different people working in a different location is why it is different in time completion.

and 1/1000th the price.

which is why most of the world is heading there to get **** made.

Let me tell you something,

If the WPHS, Government really cared about how much cheaper it is to build a road/bridge/tunnel faster then the death factor here will be more than 70%.

If you have some time, watch the anormous ammount of complaints people publish on TV, Youtube etc. E.g. (The roller that crushed a man.... WPHS issue).

Australian engineers try there best to be cheap, believe me. I work/study for civil engineering, and the main things we put up first is SAFETY. We go through Cordels like any other engineering firms, just to get the best price.

And I know your whole point was "omg look how much cheaper it is", my whole point is why we are more expensive. So please don't take this as a personall attack or something, just hope you understand why it is more $$$ here.

Other than all of this, it is really hot here .

 

[sudso]

Got to agree 100% with you. Even though I only spent 9 weeks in China a while back, the progress is out standing and could be seen in a 9 week period.

The government are pouring millions of dollars into their infrastructure. The speed is amazing in which they build these projects too. Unfortunately for us, we will never be as quick as the Chinese in developing their infrastructure, too many union, pay issues and government corruption down under.

OH&S has a lot to do with it as well.

China has squillions of $ to spend. The rest of the world is spending squillions there. They have squillions of disposable workers whose only purpose in life is to work and make money for the companies and government for peanuts. They dont know any different. There's a few chinese nationals working here on 457 visa's and they are dreading going back.

All this crap about "if it's made in China it's crap", is crap. They can and do make some of the worlds best quality goods if you are willing to pay for it. They also make most of the worlds worst quality and dodgiest goods too if thats what you want to spend.

 

[bloke83]

They just need to get their steel manufacturing standardised across the board, as far as metallurgy is concerned. This could be China's one down fall in the future.....

 

[PaulnLou]

They sure as hell do get stuff done. Not enough protien in your infant formula to meet the clients specifications. No worries. Put melamine in the infant formula. Problem solved. You have to marvel at that kind of push through the barriers, damn the consequences problem solving. Where will it all end?

WHO | Melamine-contaminated powdered infant formula in China - update 2

 

[paul.helm]

They just need to get their steel manufacturing standardised across the board, as far as metallurgy is concerned. This could be China's one down fall in the future.....

Agreed, we had some serious gear set failures a couple years ago when we set up our process in China due to incorrect forging process of the Stem pinions and ring gears. We spent a month with a suplier improving their process to the level that we expect & they now meet our criteria without any issues.

Funny thing is they now utalize our system for all their forgings for other customers and have had a reduction in claims across the board.