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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Taxi's have been around for quite some time. OK for urban use, but that's all.

The autonomous thing worries me. Imagine all the hackers of the world frothing at the mouth while they're trying to break into the system...and they would. The challenge would be irresistible....
Already happenned, I watched a docoearlier this year where a 'reformed' hacker took control of a vehicle in a demonstration of what could be done, scary stuff. The way the criminal element works at the moment, you can't guarantee 100% foolproof.
 

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Rogue
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Taxi's have been around for quite some time. OK for urban use, but that's all.

The autonomous thing worries me. Imagine all the hackers of the world frothing at the mouth while they're trying to break into the system...and they would. The challenge would be irresistible....
No different from anything else online. It is the way the world has been going for decades. EFTPOS/ATMs are still online, nuclear power plants, your banking, everything about you even if you're not a direct technology participant.

As for Taxi's being limited to urban, sure when the driver needs to go home. If there is no driver, then it doesn't matter. There isn't any need for a car to return to it's designated single place depot. It could go somewhere else, if automated charging can be mastered, it might never go back to a depot and just operate 24/7
 

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Rogue
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Care to name any? And please don't say solar panels as their efficiency is pathetically low.
Read back if you want more info, but for a summary; Hydrogen, anhydrous ammonia, methane, manufactured renewable fuels, bio fuels, etc. Even battery tech may move on from lithium (solid state batteries).

Solar panels are energy conversion inefficient, but still are economically efficient.
 

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nissan
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I think its the wireless EV charging technology that may solve some of the range issues, if they can master the moving wireless charging solution (Dynamic Charging), this would be a game changer (or charger, lol) Qualcomm Technologies and Renault achieved some success with this tech years ago , allowing 20 kiloWatts of charging at speeds of up to 100 kilometres an hour, so it looks like it could be a reality for the near future.



Stationary wireless EV charging is already in use in other parts of the world, used to charge Taxis and Buses while at cab rank or bus stops etc, this allows for a battery of half the size, and so then the weight reduction in battery also helps to increase range in between charging, wireless charging can also be retro fitted to many EVs aftermarket, and in Europe, they have already tested it working 100% efficiently through a 10cm block of Ice.
 

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nissan
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Buying new, buy Petrol I reckon
So do I.

EVs are better in almost every way i can think of except range, and the range and charge options are starting to get pretty good now.
I'd say it depends what you mean by pretty good. Good range is a non negotiable requirement the way most of us use our 4x4s. When you've worked out how to get an electric 4x4 to Cape York and back, across the Simpson desert and down the Canning Stock Route then I'll be lined up with you to buy one but until one can do 1000km and then recharge in a remote out of the way location I'll be sticking with my old school diesel. If I had to replace it today I'm almost certain it would get replaced with a petrol.
 

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Rogue
D23 Navara ST-X | Waiting for my Ranger Raptor V6TT
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I'd say it depends what you mean by pretty good. Good range is a non negotiable requirement the way most of us use our 4x4s. When you've worked out how to get an electric 4x4 to Cape York and back, across the Simpson desert and down the Canning Stock Route then I'll be lined up with you to buy one but until one can do 1000km and then recharge in a remote out of the way location I'll be sticking with my old school diesel. If I had to replace it today I'm almost certain it would get replaced with a petrol.
And as you're in a very small majority who have that requirement, unfortunately you'll be pulled along for the ride
 

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As much as I love diesel 4wds I will happily drop something like this in when it becomes cheaper than a typical engine conversion (let's hope that happens before the cost if diesel gets too much).

 

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nissan
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And as you're in a very small majority who have that requirement, unfortunately you'll be pulled along for the ride
I'm not too sure what a small majority is so I'm guessing you mean small minority. From the number of 4x4s I see on back roads and out of the way places I'd say that the percentage of owners that need good range is quite high, even if they only need that range once every year or two. An electric vehicle with current technology is going to cross a lot of destinations off the map and for many people those destinations are the very reason they own a 4x4.
 

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Rogue
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I'm not too sure what a small majority is so I'm guessing you mean small minority. From the number of 4x4s I see on back roads and out of the way places I'd say that the percentage of owners that need good range is quite high, even if they only need that range once every year or two. An electric vehicle with current technology is going to cross a lot of destinations off the map and for many people those destinations are the very reason they own a 4x4.
haha minority yeah

All the people in the outback is still a small percentage. Just look at our election results to understand where the populous is
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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I'm so glad to be in a 'minority' that enjoys the pleasures of touring Australia in my old diesel with no worries of making it to the next town or weather the sun shine or the wind blowing. I look on the bright side, I'll be long gone before diesel ever leaves the market place :).
 

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nissan
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All the people in the outback is still a small percentage. Just look at our election results to understand where the populous is
I understand where the populace is but many 4x4 owners that don't live in the outback still want to do a trip to Cape York and across the Simpson Desert and owning a 4x4 that will get you 99% of the way there is not good enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
When is it no longer speculation by experts, but is happening though? As far as I can see and experience as a current participant in the infrastructure planning and delivery sector, changes are being made at the private industry and consumer level already. We have electric Hino trucks driving around town, I see more trucks carrying Telsa Model 3s than anything other than Dodge Rams down the Hume Highway haha. Fleet buyers are not buying petrol and diesel sedans, it's all hybrid and has been for 5-years, now going all electric. All major miners are de-carbonising their fleets and driving their own technology investment programs. Manufacturing is moving on from gas heating and using their own generated electricity or establishing heat sharing agreements from heat byproduct producing industries. Wastewater treatment plants around the country are being converted into powerplants to generate hydrogen for export and oxygen for treatment process efficiency.

Here is the national energy market mix of electricity source consumption through the grid (which doesn't include self-consumption, also booming there), trajectory only going one way, particularly with the private and public funding already occurring. Gas isn't far off either. Domestic connections occurring, but consumption of gas going down.
View attachment 542624

If you close your eyes you see nothing. It really doesn't matter what you think is happening, it is happening.
Yep the transition is happening but I wonder in the reliability of these new 4x4 off road electric cars, I feel the diesel tech will stay for awhile due to its reliability. We all know heavy electric cars tend to have alot problems (when being used like a patrol in bush)

Already happenned, I watched a docoearlier this year where a 'reformed' hacker took control of a vehicle in a demonstration of what could be done, scary stuff. The way the criminal element works at the moment, you can't guarantee 100% foolproof.
Also I heard in China as they are already heavy electric that some people try to explore with their electric car in certain areas in the bush and the car shuts down and doesn't allow the driver to enter (government regulations)
This could be a problem in future if we don't have the mechanical control over our vehicle.
 

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Rogue
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Yep the transition is happening but I wonder in the reliability of these new 4x4 off road electric cars, I feel the diesel tech will stay for awhile due to its reliability. We all know heavy electric cars tend to have alot problems (when being used like a patrol in bush)
Current EV is more reliable than modern diesel, or any ICE (at least in drivetrain terms). Same electrical connections between both EV and ICE, and elec is less heat and vibration effected. Modern diesels are the least reliable cars on the road with DPFs, ultra-high pressure pumps and injectors, VV turbos, EGRs, heat fatiguing pistons, etc. That is half the reason so many manufacturers are turning back to petrol tech. Gotta ask why so many diesel engines nowadays are affected by catastrophic mechanical and economic failure (piston cracking, $10k injection system replacement). High-pressure CRD is the worst

Remember, electric motors are more abundant and have been around a lot longer than the diesel engine and all modern cars have electric motors that last the life of the car including 4x4s.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Easy to answer, real world testing is a big issue, gone are those days, look at the Ford ranger (may even still be the same), drain oil for longer than 10 minutes and you have a potential disaster. ZD30DI, something like 17,000 hours of dyno testing and still got it wrong (the real road testing happened here in Oz). Rush rush rush, cut costs, etc, etc.
Yes, electric motors have been around a long time, but not in production vehicles.
Time will tell.
 

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nissan
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So do I.


I'd say it depends what you mean by pretty good. Good range is a non negotiable requirement the way most of us use our 4x4s. When you've worked out how to get an electric 4x4 to Cape York and back, across the Simpson desert and down the Canning Stock Route then I'll be lined up with you to buy one but until one can do 1000km and then recharge in a remote out of the way location I'll be sticking with my old school diesel. If I had to replace it today I'm almost certain it would get replaced with a petrol.
They have already broken the 1000k traveled on one charge, and you could recharge that overnight in a remote location ,anywhere there is 240V, like the many places you'd buy liquid Fuel, now don't get me wrong, i know that's a pain to stay overnight for some, but after 6-700ks driving, id be happy for a big rest and a beer, and those sort of trips id be taking my time enjoying everything anyway.

Im also not so naive to imagine 1000ks is possible in the "real" world yet, but id suggest a 800k range may be a realistic figure ?, at a guess, in the real world this may equate to 500ks when you put people and heaps of stuff in the car ? i don't really know.

Its funny, we just had a conversation at work today about taking a EV to the Cape, Cooktown is one of the highest charge points up the map on Plugshare, from Cooktown, about 3 overnight stops may be needed to charge from a standard 240V power outlet (so book accommodation say at Coen, Nanum, Punsand) then next day is 45min to the tip, so while it may not be as convenient as other transport, if your not in a rush, id say the Tip is doable right now with the current tech, its just the lack of a decent 4x4 EV platform being sold in AU stopping it, but that will surely change in the next few years (i really hope, yes im looking at "you" ELON ,lol)
 

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They have already broken the 1000k traveled on one charge, and you could recharge that overnight in a remote location ,anywhere there is 240V, like the many places you'd buy liquid Fuel, now don't get me wrong, i know that's a pain to stay overnight for some, but after 6-700ks driving, id be happy for a big rest and a beer, and those sort of trips id be taking my time enjoying everything anyway.

Im also not so naive to imagine 1000ks is possible in the "real" world yet, but id suggest a 800k range may be a realistic figure ?, at a guess, in the real world this may equate to 500ks when you put people and heaps of stuff in the car ? i don't really know.

Its funny, we just had a conversation at work today about taking a EV to the Cape, Cooktown is one of the highest charge points up the map on Plugshare, from Cooktown, about 3 overnight stops may be needed to charge from a standard 240V power outlet (so book accommodation say at Coen, Nanum, Punsand) then next day is 45min to the tip, so while it may not be as convenient as other transport, if your not in a rush, id say the Tip is doable right now with the current tech, its just the lack of a decent 4x4 EV platform being sold in AU stopping it, but that will surely change in the next few years (i really hope, yes im looking at "you" ELON ,lol)
Yeah, but what about the other 1000 others that also want to charge their EVs overnight? I just can’t visualise the remote locations such as those you mention (and many more besides) being able to install the infrastructure required to cater for the number of vehicles that currently travel those places.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Rogue
D23 Navara ST-X | Waiting for my Ranger Raptor V6TT
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Easy to answer, real world testing is a big issue, gone are those days, look at the Ford ranger (may even still be the same), drain oil for longer than 10 minutes and you have a potential disaster. ZD30DI, something like 17,000 hours of dyno testing and still got it wrong. Rush rush rush, cut costs, etc, etc.
Yes, electric motors have been around a long time, but not in production vehicles.
Time will tell.
Ford couldn't make a doorhandle for decades, whats the point?

Old cars die, get replaced with newer cars. Markets change to suit new buying trends. New trends aren't more diesel. We've had peak diesel
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Ford couldn't make a doorhandle for decades, whats the point?

Old cars die, get replaced with newer cars. Markets change to suit new buying trends. New trends aren't more diesel. We've had peak diesel
We were supposed to hit peak oil 20 years ago so the 'experts' said. I'm happy if I'm living in the past, it is a lot of fun just packing up at a moments notice and heading off across the country the back ways without a worry in the world.
 
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