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nissan
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Current EV is more reliable than modern diesel, or any ICE (at least in drivetrain terms).
I agree with you about the electric motors, their reliability is usually outstanding. The controllers can have issues but are typically pretty good too, but the real problems are always with the batteries however the battery warranties that are now typical are quite impressive so this tends to mitigate a lot of the problems. I'd say with those considerations the EVs are of similar reliability to modern internal combustion vehicles. If they have a problem during the first 100k km then it gets fixed under warranty but if it happens after that it costs a fortune whether it's diesel or electric.
 

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Rogue
D23 Navara ST-X | Waiting for my Ranger Raptor V6TT
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I agree with you about the electric motors, their reliability is usually outstanding. The controllers can have issues but are typically pretty good too, but the real problems are always with the batteries however the battery warranties that are now typical are quite impressive so this tends to mitigate a lot of the problems. I'd say with those considerations the EVs are of similar reliability to modern internal combustion vehicles. If they have a problem during the first 100k km then it gets fixed under warranty but if it happens after that it costs a fortune whether it's diesel or electric.
Nissan leaf batteries aren't great because of poor thermal management, but the Tesla stuff is holding up very well

With so many Tesla's around now, the aftermarket are already starting to make replacements with higher capacities. It's not uncommon to get a larger battery pack out of a damaged one either. Plenty of YouTube vids of people swapping out batteries, higher performance motors and whatnot from flooded write-offs.
 

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Rogue
D23 Navara ST-X | Waiting for my Ranger Raptor V6TT
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Back to the OP, diesel, at least in passenger vehicles, will be regulated to death in terms of new car production within the current model generation. No manufacturer is seriously investing in a new generation of diesel technology. They will add refinement and bolt-ons until the economics of buying and operating diesel diminish, or regulation catches them out.

In terms of new diesel development, Nissan are done, Renault was their last hope for a diesel with Mitsu being out for a few years now - France's Renault scraps investment in new diesel engine
Merc out, Hyundai group out, VW out, etc.

Ford have been pretty heavily investing in EV and dropping off much more diesel investment. Maintaining Petrol.

Toyota is almost out, using the existing gen of engines to adapt to a hybrid setup.

BMW continuing for now, but may be forced by Euro regs to quit, so not guaranteed to see the market.

We might just be driving Mazdas Mazda says petrol and diesel engines still have life left
 

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Rogue
D23 Navara ST-X | Waiting for my Ranger Raptor V6TT
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We were supposed to hit peak oil 20 years ago so the 'experts' said. I'm happy if I'm living in the past, it is a lot of fun just packing up at a moments notice and heading off across the country the back ways without a worry in the world.
As said previously, hold on to your non-CRD diesel as long as possible. New buyers beware.

Another example of diesel dying, non-DPF 70 series V8 have higher resale than DPF models. Similarly with AdBlu, seeing higher depreciation rates than others.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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As said previously, hold on to your non-CRD diesel as long as possible. New buyers beware.

Another example of diesel dying, non-DPF 70 series V8 have higher resale than DPF models. Similarly with AdBlu, seeing higher depreciation rates than others.
I will be, I've got it for the rest of my life and loving it. Interesting that a big company like Toyota stuck with and designed a new 3.3L diesel to keep them moving forward.
Oh well! As said, we'll see where this all goes eventually, but I can guarantee it ain't gonna happen in my life time.
 

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nissan
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Yeah, but what about the other 1000 others that also want to charge their EVs overnight? I just can’t visualise the remote locations such as those you mention (and many more besides) being able to install the infrastructure required to cater for the number of vehicles that currently travel those places.


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Well if you think about what you are saying, either nobody is taking EVs to remote locations (as suggested they won't) and so its no problem for one or two EVs to get charge, or there are thousands taking EVs to remote locations and it becomes a problem, if its a problem, then why would they not build to accommodate the numbers that generate dollars, just like spending money building a fuel outlet, or a pub etc in the first place ?

Its just like having a petrol station in the bush, it supplies a need, id suggest perhaps many more remote locations already have a infrastructure in place supplying electricity now, im happy to be corrected, but id be pretty confident electricity is currently available in more remote locations than fuel ?
 

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Well if you think about what you are saying, either nobody is taking EVs to remote locations (as suggested they won't) and so its no problem for one or two EVs to get charge, or there are thousands taking EVs to remote locations and it becomes a problem, if its a problem, then why would they not build to accommodate the numbers that generate dollars, just like spending money building a fuel outlet, or a pub etc in the first place ?

Its just like having a petrol station in the bush, it supplies a need, id suggest perhaps many more remote locations already have a infrastructure in place supplying electricity now, im happy to be corrected, but id be pretty confident electricity is currently available in more remote locations than fuel ?
You have to have a lot more than just electricity. You need to have enough charging points to cater for the anticipated demand. You need to have the physical space to be able to park a certain number of cars, many with trailers/caravans, so they can all sit on charge for the number of hours required. Then you need to have facility’s to cater for those people while they wait, dining accomodation etc. can you imagine turning up at Bramwell station with 1% charge left and seeing a huge line waiting to get charged? Maybe you walk to the front of the line to find out how long a wait you have, only to find out they can’t get you a spot until 2pm tomorrow
Yes, these problems will be overcome eventually, battery technology will maybe improve to the point where you can get a 5 minute fast charge but geez I don’t think it’s going to happen as quickly as some seem to think. That sort of convenience is going to take huge amps, and getting that power supply to remote areas is going to take a very long time.


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Hey I'm thinking of investing a large amount of time and money into developing my 4x4 diesel off road house machine, which I will live in for foreseeable future.
My question is in the price of diesel and its future, as I'm currently living in Melbourne with prices well over $2.00 a L.. I'm worried with emission laws cracking down it just won't be a viable living arrangement in the future. How high will the prices go or will they even ban diesel cars... Thoughts?
Most Mining Companies here in WA only use diesel for their equipment and lvs. Although electric trains and roadtrains have made their debut. Diesel vehicles handle the hot temps up north better than petrol and if you get lost and are running low plenty of mine sites around to help out. The fumes of diesel are the worst kind but the producers of diesel have worked on the chemistry of diesel to make it less invasive to us and our environment.
 

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@andrew1964, unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology, there'll never be a problem with EVs with vans & trailers at remote locations. The towing mass & range of current EVs is very low, with a lot not being able to tow anything.
 
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@andrew1964, unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology, there'll never be a problem with EVs with vans & trailers at remote locations. The towing mass & range of current EVs is very low, with a lot not being able to tow anything.
Exactly. Which is why we won’t see and end to fossil fuels in the near future.


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Sorry fellow diesel users, I am looking at the beer half empty scenario. When the Greens get their say, all state forests and camping areas will be out of bounds. So you wont need the diesel powered long range vehicles anymore. I would love an all electric 4x4 with a motor in each wheel. Full torque from 0 rpm. No gears. No diffs. No gearboxes. No oil changes. No breathers or all the other bullshart. Full computer hands off control up Aeroplane track !! Regen power down a steep hill. However… as good as the batteries might be, I will need to recharge that 200 Kwh unit in 5 minutes to be happy. So I pull into the new United Electric fuel stop in Yarra Glen along with another 6 vehicles that need a electric fill. The amount of current needed to do this will be provided by yummy green rooftop solar and windfarms Mr Green Bandt? I think not, Yarra Glen will be blacked out while we recharge 😂😂😂
 

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You have to have a lot more than just electricity. You need to have enough charging points to cater for the anticipated demand. You need to have the physical space to be able to park a certain number of cars, many with trailers/caravans, so they can all sit on charge for the number of hours required. Then you need to have facility’s to cater for those people while they wait, dining accomodation etc. can you imagine turning up at Bramwell station with 1% charge left and seeing a huge line waiting to get charged? Maybe you walk to the front of the line to find out how long a wait you have, only to find out they can’t get you a spot until 2pm tomorrow
Yes, these problems will be overcome eventually, battery technology will maybe improve to the point where you can get a 5 minute fast charge but geez I don’t think it’s going to happen as quickly as some seem to think. That sort of convenience is going to take huge amps, and getting that power supply to remote areas is going to take a very long time.


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Yes, everything you say is correct , but owning a EV you would take a different approach to planning any trip, they are different to use, even if just using one to commute to work.

The problems you speak of, are only going to be a problem if EVs become very popular, so its a bit like saying, people won't use EVs in remote areas, because too many people "may" want to use EVs in remote areas.

@andrew1964, unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology, there'll never be a problem with EVs with vans & trailers at remote locations. The towing mass & range of current EVs is very low, with a lot not being able to tow anything.
Batteries are improving, Tesla will soon release a new Battery (the 4680 Battery) combined with new Tesla Plaid Drive Units , this should offer even greater energy ,range and power.

The Towing capacity on some 4X4 EVs that are in production right now are not too bad.

Hummer EV = 3,402 kg
Ford Lightning EV = 4,536 kg
Rivian R1T EV = 4990kg

Range would suffer a lot when towing , but the power and torque they produce, i think may just surprise most people .
 

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Just finished a stage in an ongoing project on my dirty, polluting, climate changing Patrol, and loving it, can't wait to get next stage up and running. Oh the things an average guy can extract from a dirty old diesel (or petrol), good luck playing with an EV 😂.
 

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I have no plans to part with my diesel, but I will admit to being fascinated by the evolving technology.
Personally I feel full ev is not the future. Not without being able to be portable solar recharged. There will never be enough charging stations, and range is going to be an issue for a while.
I'm following the nitrogen fuel development with interest.
 

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I have no plans to part with my diesel, but I will admit to being fascinated by the evolving technology.
Personally I feel full ev is not the future. Not without being able to be portable solar recharged. There will never be enough charging stations, and range is going to be an issue for a while.
I'm following the nitrogen fuel development with interest.
Tesla has apparently applied for a patent on a retractable hard lid cover with built in solar for the Cybertruck, this is supposed to add 15 Miles (24 kilometers) a day to your range.


While this is not a huge amount, it does suggest that if you are out of charge crossing the Simpson, you can still have a emergency back up plan, so at least you don't have to be recovered.

Speaking of crossing the Simpson, ZipCharge should be releasing their portable power bank later this year, about the size of a small suit case, the larger 8kWh version is about 45kg, so a bit more than 2 x 20L jerry cans of fuel, but can add 60ks of range.


So im thinking 4 would weigh 180kg but give you 240ks extra range, i think most people carry 3-4 Jerry cans of fuel to cross the desert adding around 80kg id guess ?, the very big advantage here with liquid fuel, is that your car gets lighter the more fuel you consume, where as with extra battery storage, the weight you carry is still the same, even after all the energy is depleted.

ZipCharge are talking about Leasing these to customers, so it may make leasing multiple for a outback trip a realistic option (assuming they even come to AU), 800k range, and 4 of these adding 240ks, with a bit of Solar for backup, certainly makes a Simpson Crossing look possibly viable with a EV ,well, at least on paper.
 

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When the time comes, hopefully a long way down the track I will only be looking at a hybrid along the lines of what BMW is doing with their plug in hybrid. Hopefully a true 4x4 will be built.

P.S I don't count a Jeep Grand Cherokee a 4x4, just getting that out of the way.
 

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Looking forward to Quantum Drive vehicles :p
Seriously though, all tech aside, I'd be very happy for more Australians become aware and vocal regarding what gets dug out of our (and indigenous) ground, royalty free, by international companies, virtually tax free. I mean, c'mon now. Apologies, don't mean to side track but it's somewhat related for everyone to consider.
 

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I believe the electronic technology progress rate if way faster than the ICE technology. If take a look at the mobile phones we are using today: the battery, the stand by time, the memory, the internet connection speed etc vs 15 or 10 years ago. So I believe the EV technology will progress in the similar pace in the next 5 to 10 years. By the time the battery technology will be far more advanced compared to today's technology, yet the price will be lots cheaper , and range is no longer a major issue ( just like today's phone). Plus the volume of production of EV world wide. The charging stations will also be more accessible even in remote areas. The EVs will be affordable for most car buyers and the price of the new EV will be cheaper than the similar sized ICE car. It does not matter how do we think, no one can stop an EV revolution which will come eventually. I like my diesel Patrol, I will keep it as long as I can ( especially If I want to go to outback or across the Simpson Desert again . Can an EV 4wd find a charging station in the desert? unless there is long range version EV built for the outback, or we may see people who are driving 4wd EV to carry additional battery pack just for the outback trip, many Australia local companies may start doing addition battery package solution, just similar like today's long range fuel tank ). For Australia, I believe we can continues to own and drive our diesel car for at least next 10 years as long as we can afford the high fuel price.
 
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