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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #2,041 ·
I have been watching the aero things thread since it started, the ZD30 doesn't really have issues if basic maintence is looked after, but it has been interesting to read.
All original aero things (bar maybe one) have been in place and working fine, no temperature issues and I have posted about in and out rad hose temp differential years ago.
Today I decided to extend the air channelling frame under the radiator, extended it by 100mm to sit level with the bottom of the diff tubes, will be interesting to see if there is a positive effect.
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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #2,042 ·
Funny how you get used to things, as said earlier I recently reinstalled the solenoid I'd used years ago to open the fresh air line to the needle valve, up until then I had just gotten used to leaving the needle valve in the 'economy' setting. Over Easter we had interstate family staying with us and so we went for a drive up into the mountains, I left the solenoid in closed position. There were 5 people on board (grandson is 6ft 3inch and 100kg) and my normal load of gear which makes the Patrol go 2900kg in normal running order, I could not be happier in how it went, it is amazing how much difference a couple of psi in earlier spoolup in higher gears makes.
Got a short trip of a couple of thousand K's coming up in May, this will be a good test for the versatility of the reinstalled switch and also for the airflow mod under the radiator.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #2,044 ·
I'll make a guess and say the air flow mod will have a small impact. I know from the guys that have had them ripped out while off road they have real issues until they get them reinstalled..
Just arrived home from the trip, the difference is minimal, cruising at just over 100k on undulating roads it may have spent a little longer at 85c and less time at 86c. I've never had a temperature issue no matter what I did, so I wasn't expecting much, just another experiment. I've always looked after the air channelling devices around the engine bay.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #2,045 ·
Reworking Airbox Lid
In THIS thread OldMav mentioned a small mod that could be a 1%er, I did the mod as best way I could given the time before going on my road trip, a quick test seemed to give better response, but the long trip through various terrain showed something else. I have my main water meth injection point coming on at 16psi (it is not set up for performance, more for economy) my usage rate is generally 0.9 - 1.0L/100k highway and 1.5-1.9L/100k off road and mountainous terrain. Just finished a trip covering all these situations and found the usage rate has dropped to 0.5L/100k on highway and 0.75L/100k off road and mountainous terrain. So it looks like efficiency has improved via the mod, I still can't believe such a small thing could make that much difference, it means the boost is sitting just under the injection point for longer. So I have had to make minor adjustments to spoolup to compensate :).

Water Meth Injection Changes
Before leaving on my trip @OldMav and I had a conversation about WM injection theory, Peter had come across a proprietary study which changed the way WM is thought about, seeing as my DI is going and always open to ideas a test was decided upon. Peter may come in so I won't go into to much detail on what happens, but will show what I did and how the test has gone in the last few days since doing the first part of the mod the day after I got home.
We have thought that pre turbo is a highly efficient method of injection, this may not exactly be the case, injecting into the entry of the IC apparently has many good points, which I can partially prove in my trials at the end.

I have disconnected my Pre Turbo injection (but still in situ at the moment). Earlier tests indicated that Snow nozzles atomised better than Cooling Mist, so it was Snow nozzles I machined and fitted to the turbo inlet. I have numerous nozzle brands so am fitting Cooling Mist to the IC entry as follows.
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The second part of the paper was something we already knew but more difficult to do on a DI, and that is injecting straight into the inlet manifold, very difficult on a ZD30 and particularly on a DI as the throttlebody is the last common point for feeding all 8 valves, once you get to the manifold the tracts are separate all the way to the left and right valve banks so you only inject into 4 valves instead of 8, it is extremely difficult to make that happen without a lot of machining or making a new inlet manifold, neither of which I'm inclined to do, so for the present my second injection point will remain at the TB.
Yesterday afternoon I did a run up the highway towards Gympie then turning back after 30 minutes 104k in 5th and in cruise. The interesting thing is that there are 2 climbs on that run that will consistently see my EGT climb to 400c, yesterday it didn't go past 350c on either and it lost no performance because of the removal of pre turbo. What appears to be happeneing is that the injection of WM into the IC opening is not so much cooling the air but cooling the IC which in turn cools the air.
I'm impressed, this will put new airbox on hold while I rethink my setup and finely tune to optimise.
 

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What size nozzle did you use @geeyoutoo on inlet of IC . Very interesting,✅ .l was looking at adding a second nozzle later on,something to thing about, keep up the good work mate.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #2,047 ·
What size nozzle did you use @geeyoutoo on inlet of IC . Very interesting,✅ .l was looking at adding a second nozzle later on,something to thing about, keep up the good work mate.
You already have the nozzle in the throttlebody don't you? The one in the IC entry is working well for me, it is a CM3. Just got to fine tune the setup. I'm going to remove pre turbo completely now, we learn as we go :).
 

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Yes , throttle body with DO4. Currently using 50/50 mix, (very close to CM3), all going good at the moment, eco is getting better with slight increase in starting point (7.5psi from 5.5psi) pretty much sprays non stop.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2,049 ·
Water Meth Injection Changes Continued (Thoughts)
Very happy with WM setup so far, will eventually fully disconnect pre turbo now and remove internal pipework and plug entry into the side (currently blocked).

Apparently injecting into IC entry can result in up 65% increase in efficiency over pre turbo (not 65% increase in performance). Going on my recent results I would agree with that number. Injecting into the manifold could result in a 25% increase in efficiency.

Couldn't help myself this morning, I dragged out my spare inlet manifold (had it for ages to check out various failings/attributes) looking for possible single injection point for all 8 valves at once, as described earlier the runners to passenger side inlet valves and drivers side inlet valves are completely separated from throttlebody down. There is a simple possibility for a smart young man (only need to find one), effectiveness is the unknown, would it all get sucked into the closes runner????. The DI pass side runner goes into square ports as it enters the head, it then travels across the head which means it would be picking up heat as it went and these are the ports that hold the EGR mix, on the drivers side valves it is a quick trip down to the seat with everything clean (even if EGR isn't blocked).

Should this be a viable solution I could reemploy my TPS controlled solenoid to separate feed from intercooler feed.
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Discussion Starter · #2,050 ·
Water Meth Injection Changes Continued (Thoughts)
Very happy with WM setup so far, will eventually fully disconnect pre turbo now and remove internal pipework and plug entry into the side (currently blocked).

Apparently injecting into IC entry can result in up 65% increase in efficiency over pre turbo (not 65% increase in performance). Going on my recent results I would agree with that number. Injecting into the manifold could result in a 25% increase in efficiency.

Couldn't help myself this morning, I dragged out my spare inlet manifold (had it for ages to check out various failings/attributes) looking for possible single injection point for all 8 valves at once, as described earlier the runners to passenger side inlet valves and drivers side inlet valves are completely separated from throttlebody down. There is a simple possibility for a smart young man (only need to find one), effectiveness is the unknown, would it all get sucked into the closes runner????. The DI pass side runner goes into square ports as it enters the head, it then travels across the head which means it would be picking up heat as it went and these are the ports that hold the EGR mix, on the drivers side valves it is a quick trip down to the seat with everything clean (even if EGR isn't blocked).

Should this be a viable solution I could reemploy my TPS controlled solenoid to separate feed from intercooler feed.
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View attachment 542276
More thinking overnight, going to forget this idea, will have flow issues. Back to the drawing board.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,051 ·
New thought this morning, 2 nozzles, 1 in each runner halfway between cyl 2 and 3 via a Y fitting. Effort - Benefit analyses :unsure:
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Going by what i understand without the full data report, as you know that costs a lot of money. But how i interpret the summary and conclusion is the nozzles need to be in the manifold central to the ports air flow in the intake position so the water can distribute along the plenum walls to cool the metal surface more than collect in the incoming air so to speak.

With that in mind your drawn positioning considering the intake position the metal after that position will only be cooled. So only the 4 ports on the right side.

From what i can see from your photo i would be trying to fit nozzles in the two intake horns, possibly in the left hand side of both intake horns at the bottom of the bend.

Just an idea but i see that working towards our 25% efficiency goal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,053 ·
Going by what i understand without the full data report, as you know that costs a lot of money. But how i interpret the summary and conclusion is the nozzles need to be in the manifold central to the ports air flow in the intake position so the water can distribute along the plenum walls to cool the metal surface more than collect in the incoming air so to speak.

With that in mind your drawn positioning considering the intake position the metal after that position will only be cooled. So only the 4 ports on the right side.

From what i can see from your photo i would be trying to fit nozzles in the two intake horns, possibly in the left hand side of both intake horns at the bottom of the bend.

Just an idea but i see that working towards our 25% efficiency goal.
Your dead right, I was willing a quicker solution, brain fade (I am getting old you know), it must be closer to the throttle body, this makes it very difficult without cutting the back off where the throttle body mounts and welding a plate in to accept a nozzle that covers both runners, cooling the walls. The existing nozzle in the throttle is around 150mm further up and that could minimise cooling effect on the runner walls. Oh well, I'm not in a hurry, still got to fine tune current setup :cool:
 

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Your dead right, I was willing a quicker solution, brain fade (I am getting old you know), it must be closer to the throttle body, this makes it very difficult without cutting the back off where the throttle body mounts and welding a plate in to accept a nozzle that covers both runners, cooling the walls. The existing nozzle in the throttle is around 150mm further up and that could minimise cooling effect on the runner walls. Oh well, I'm not in a hurry, still got to fine tune current setup :cool:
Yep 150mm is too far away to get the effect we are looking for. Thats one criteria this patent white paper spells out very clearly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,055 ·
Yep 150mm is too far away to get the effect we are looking for. Thats one criteria this patent white paper spells out very clearly.
Will explore the possibility of cutting and plating the back of where the TB attaches to fit a nozzle, as well as access. Bloody cold and 100mm of rain and climbing, so I'm having a quiet day, will explore tomorrow.

I still can't believe the improvement in driveabilty with the last 2 mods.

@Zd30 Steven I know your keen, if you get a chance to do the last 2 mods I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
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