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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,761
I read everywhere on all sites people focusing on pressure and PSI although what matters is just the volume of air and therefore to maximise the MAF value. I strongly encourage everybody to only look at this. Our original MAF sensor is quite accurate. I have two, and both give the same tension at 0.05V accuracy. so the reading is accurate.

At 2300RPM in third gear, my MAF exceeds 4V, and the boost is no more than 17psi. ( and since I have no remap, I keep the MAF tension seen by the ECU at 3.75V. ( and 3.9V below 3000RPM).

The pressure builds up continuously and gently vs RPM, and MAF goes up quick and nice too.

To achieve that, I get the actuator to "dance the rock" (purple line). The best non-electronic solution (i.e pneumatic) to match this uses three valves ( One Needle, one Dawes set to open very very early : +300mbar, followed by a second needle to regulate the quantity of pressure going through to the vacuum hose). Unlike the Dawes-Needle arrangement which keeps the vanes closed up unitl the dawes opens. In between you see pressure, but much less air ! and on top you build back-pressure).

View attachment 514151
I'm not concentrating on pressure, I could run higher boost quite easily and in fact have during testing, but I'm pulling bloody good torque down low and bloody good rwhp at a setting I'm happy with as a good reliable setting. I can pull away from 1200rpm in 4th gear and it pulls hard from 1500rpm.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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I have no doubt about you mate. You know what you do better than anyone. But everywhere on all sites, it is what I see being said. And the widely spread unique Needle-Dawes set-up does not help ... may be you should open a specific post about all lessons learnt on the 3.0di VNT ? If I had found one one year ago, it would have helped my understanding a lot instead of bothering you all the time !😉
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,763
I have no doubt about you mate. You know what you do better than anyone. But everywhere on all sites, it is what I see being said. And the widely spread unique Needle-Dawes set-up does not help ... may be you should open a specific post about all lessons learnt on the 3.0di VNT ? If I had found one one year ago, it would have helped my understanding a lot instead of bothering you all the time !😉
I'm not sure exactly what you mean Phil, we have learned a hell of a lot about the VNT and getting the best out of them over the years, much of it written up, I would say there has been more ZD30 soul searching done here in Oz than any other country in the world, that is why our membership covers the face of the earth.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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It is the exact reason why I joined this wonderful site Ross.

And I digged out whatever I could find, but never got the comprehensive answer I was looking for about the VNT, and how best manage the vanes opening. Since many have a one-needle one dawes arrangement, it is what I did too, when I installed NADS like all many of you. But I was not happy and studied from the net and many sites around the world to finallly get it as, even if I am familiar with electrronics and software, I have learnt bits of mechanics only for the last two years.

What I was looking for was the best vanes management strategy in between min vanes aperture and max vanes aperture, and found nowhere the right explanations, and how to get/set the pressure and MAF value I wanted when cruising on a flat road at 80km/h, same at 110km/h, and same under load. I discovered this little by little and by multiple trials, which was interesting, but took me a hell of a long time.

And the very fact that many people around the world are still using a simple system with one needle setting the spool-up and one dawes which opens at arelatively high pressure keeping the vanes fully closed until that time, shows that they are all missing the understanding of what is going on behind the scene ( and having a dual dawes does not correct the inherent limitations of the previous arrangement).

All that to discover that, for one PATROL configuration, and one given turbo, there is one optimum vnt management strategy, depending upon where the maximum efficiency of the turbines are ( which is roughly at medium aperture by the way ). And finally, how to get the VNT pushing hard by acting smoothly, continuously, but not at all linearly as I thought initially, on the vanes. hence my suggestion. But it is only a suggestion, should someone else share the same interest to understand, and wishes to get the most out of its 3.0Di.

You certainly have a top of the class turbo. But I am convinced that you would get even more out of it if you had a VNT management perfectly adapted to this new turbo and your Patrol configuration. And by working closely with the turbo designer, this is for sure what you would get as the VNT turbo is as good as the control of its VNT.

If you are happy, I am too.
rgds.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,765
It is the exact reason why I joined this wonderful site Ross.

And I digged out whatever I could find, but never got the comprehensive answer I was looking for about the VNT, and how best manage the vanes opening. Since many have a one-needle one dawes arrangement, it is what I did too, when I installed NADS like all many of you. But I was not happy and studied from the net and many sites around the world to finallly get it as, even if I am familiar with electrronics and software, I have learnt bits of mechanics only for the last two years.

What I was looking for was the best vanes management strategy in between min vanes aperture and max vanes aperture, and found nowhere the right explanations, and how to get/set the pressure and MAF value I wanted when cruising on a flat road at 80km/h, same at 110km/h, and same under load. I discovered this little by little and by multiple trials, which was interesting, but took me a hell of a long time.

And the very fact that many people around the world are still using a simple system with one needle setting the spool-up and one dawes which opens at arelatively high pressure keeping the vanes fully closed until that time, shows that they are all missing the understanding of what is going on behind the scene ( and having a dual dawes does not correct the inherent limitations of the previous arrangement).

All that to discover that, for one PATROL configuration, and one given turbo, there is one optimum vnt management strategy, depending upon where the maximum efficiency of the turbines are ( which is roughly at medium aperture by the way ). And finally, how to get the VNT pushing hard by acting smoothly, continuously, but not at all linearly as I thought initially, on the vanes. hence my suggestion. But it is only a suggestion, should someone else share the same interest to understand, and wishes to get the most out of its 3.0Di.

You certainly have a top of the class turbo. But I am convinced that you would get even more out of it if you had a VNT management perfectly adapted to this new turbo and your Patrol configuration. And by working closely with the turbo designer, this is for sure what you would get as the VNT turbo is as good as the control of its VNT.

If you are happy, I am too.
rgds.
No mate, you have no idea what we went through setting up this turbo, I'm extremely happy with it. Over the years I've spent many hours on dyno's perfecting what I have had along the way, the original gt2052 turbo was also very close to perfection. Many options have been tried along the way, I really do not need to do anything else to my old girl.
 

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Pre Turbo Water Injection

Removed the Turbo inlet tube and flange for inspection and assessment. Amazing that you can look at something a hundred times but when looking for something specific you see it differently....... I wanted to see what the turbo rotor looked like before I start the project, that way I can inspect the rotor at any time with a mirror to see if any damage is being done by the water, if none is evident by 5,000k then she stays put.

As can be seen in the pics below, especially the close up (my laptop copy is much higher resolution), the turbo rotor is showing signs of pitting, it has 240,000k on it and I will assume with some conviction that the pitting is due to it's early 180,000k life with a bit of dust bypassing the filter and mixing with the oil mist from PCV, I have a base line now.

I measured the thickness of the rubber tube (and it is a very solid, firm rubber derivative) and the wall thickness is 4mm, plenty of body for a supported nozzle.

The internal stretch from the bend down to the flange is totally smooth inside so there is nothing there to create turbulence and catch/retain droplets, the external structural ribs in that section are just that, external and structural. There are 2 convoluted ribs just behind the point I'm looking at so they don't matter.

NOTE: This system has since been updated twice, the latest coinciding with the fitting of my Eclipse turbo

Inside the turbo throat.
View attachment 53702

Closeup of the rotor vanes showing a degree of pitting, similar to sand blasting.
View attachment 53703

The Rubber hose with structural ribs, the 2 large convoluted ribs beside the top clamp point are also internal but they won't bother me as the nozzle will be just past them.
View attachment 53704

Internal view of the hose showing a completely smooth surface to the top of the bend
View attachment 53705

Turbo flange. I was actually amazed at how well aligned the flange was with the turbo, very smooth flow from one to the other, no turbulence juncture.
View attachment 53707

Fabricated a bracket that bolts to the head, a small location tag that fits in a lower hole locates it firmly perpendicular.
View attachment 53890
Turbo Inlet Casting Resize Continued

This afternoon I pulled the front off my turbo to see if this pipe and flange I fabricated was going to fit, man I'm ecstatic, you'd swear I measured everything with a micrometer, the pipe misses the the Alternator terminal cover by 4mm and the small boss at the back of the Alt by the same with clearance to fit the transition and get a clamp in there, seeing as everything there vibrates together there are no worries :):):):).

The top of the pipe sits just below the top of the Alternator terminal cover so I need to extend the top by around 30mm, which was what I expected, the silicone 45 degree should arrive in the next day or so, depending on how this sits I may need to have the extension at a slight angle to maximise the flow in.

I'll probably get a small boss welded into the side where I can mount the tube that will eventually hold WM nozzle, so now I need to find a suitable piece of tubing to mount the nozzle on.

It's only a small mod but damn it's been a challenge so far.

Tight but fits.
View attachment 345761

Tight but fits 2 :)
View attachment 345769
Sorry if its been covered already but i cant seem to find the measurement for the stud centres of the inlet elbow anywhere and im not near my car to measure at the moment if you could shed a little light that would be much appreciated thanks!
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,767 (Edited)
Sorry if its been covered already but i cant seem to find the measurement for the stud centres of the inlet elbow anywhere and im not near my car to measure at the moment if you could shed a little light that would be much appreciated thanks!
If your referring to PCD of the inlet flange on my original 2.5" inlet elbow for GT2052, this was the sketch for the flange the bends I imported were going to fit into.

514311
 

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Sorry if its been covered already but i cant seem to find the measurement for the stud centres of the inlet elbow anywhere and im not near my car to measure at the moment if you could shed a little light that would be much appreciated thanks!
If your referring to PCD of the inlet flange on my original 2.5" inlet elbow for GT2052, this was the sketch for the flange the bends I imported were going to fit into.

View attachment 514311
Thats what im after thanks heaps mate
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,769
OMG, OMG, OMG, have I told you how much I love driving my old 2000 DI?? Just in case I haven't, lotttttssss.
What with an ongoing health issue, a whole heap of ongoing Forum background stuff, Patio and Kitchen mods, there hasn't been a lot of time. Today I had to do a drive to pick up bits and pieces, man this old girl continues to astound me every time I jump in it, had a Cruiser tailgating me at one stage, probably thinking Oh yeah another slow ZD30, at a set of lights I was able to put a couple of cars between it and me no worries, it hung back after that.

I do have one issue that raised its ugly head a couple of weeks ago, a drip of coolant appearing on the floor right at the front of the engine, but origin hidden from view, first up I thought it may have been from the turbo front water cooling banjo at front of head but with limited view it doesn't appear so. My next thought is where I had to pull the front of the engine off to change IP I may have a fine weep there, that would be a pain in the arse, doesn't drip all the time though so a bit of a mystery. The pressure tester I have borrowed from my mate in the past has gone bye bye's so it seems, he can't find it, so I've built my own with bits I had laying around. When I get some enthusiasm for working on her (no hurry all still working fine) I'll pull all the shrouds off and pressurise the system for a closer look. But with temps in the mid to high 30's it may take a while lol.


514380


514381
 

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Y61 GUIV 08CRD Wag ST
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Out of interest Ross, what pressure does the cooling sys run at (say 88-92 deg C/thermostat opened)_is it as marked on header tank cap (0.9bar maybe?) is this the opening point of pressure cap to allows flow to overflow tank?
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,771
Mine is 0.9Kpa, I have one I can bleed pressure off if I need to when playing.
 

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Y61 GUIV 08CRD Wag ST
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Rule of thumb, I thought radiator cap pressure was nom 16psi (110 kPa) (1.1bar).

I had a coolant leak up until 2-3 yrs ago, caused by the different expansion/contraction rated of dissimilar mat't (water pump housing to block), caused separation of gasket and was mainly evident after an eng cooling period 24-36 hrs sitting (small pool of coolant on floor). Re-torqued bolts _ no improvement and resorted to using Penrite Radiator Stop Leak and has worked a treat (CRD though). Experienced no adverse issues arising from its use and still present in coolant.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,773 (Edited)
Rule of thumb, I thought radiator cap pressure was nom 16psi (110 kPa) (1.1bar).

I had a coolant leak up until 2-3 yrs ago, caused by the different expansion/contraction rated of dissimilar mat't (water pump housing to block), caused separation of gasket and was mainly evident after an eng cooling period 24-36 hrs sitting (small pool of coolant on floor). Re-torqued bolts _ no improvement and resorted to using Penrite Radiator Stop Leak and has worked a treat (CRD though). Experienced no adverse issues arising from its use and still present in coolant.
Mine has had a 0.9bar cap since new, I bought a new genuine one from Garry a couple of years ago, just in case, and it came as a 13psi/0.88bar unit, later I wanted one I could dump pressure from so bought a valved 0.9kpa unit.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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The two cap pressure on mine are both rated 0.9bar (one on radiator, one on upper tank). The issue with all radiator stop leak material, is that they block all tiny holes ... radiators are made of. So the cure might be worst than the disease... and in any case, after use, it is advisable to flush it out of your radiator and replace all the coolant.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,775
The two cap pressure on mine are both rated 0.9bar (one on radiator, one on upper tank). The issue with all radiator stop leak material, is that they block all tiny holes ... radiators are made of. So the cure might be worst than the disease... and in any case, after use, it is advisable to flush it out of your radiator and replace all the coolant.
Why do you have 2 pressure caps? How they come from the factory is a plain sealing cap on heat exchanger and pressure cap on the top tank.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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oooups.
You are right. Only one. just checked. I was misled by the orange stickers, which look similar.
 

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The two cap pressure on mine are both rated 0.9bar (one on radiator, one on upper tank). The issue with all radiator stop leak material, is that they block all tiny holes ... radiators are made of. So the cure might be worst than the disease... and in any case, after use, it is advisable to flush it out of your radiator and replace all the coolant.
Yes,was reluctant to use any stop leak additive at first, but from research and Penrite recommendation have given their product a go. Near 3 yrs now and has proven to be safe and suitable for my application.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/RADIATOR STOP LEAK.pdf
 

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Mine has had a 0.9Kpa cap since new, I bought a new genuine one from Garry a couple of years ago, just in case, and it came as a 13psi/0.88kpa unit, later I wanted one I could dump pressure from so bought a valved 0.9kpa unit.
13psi is 90kPa
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Discussion Starter #1,779 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #1,780
Just a note for cooling system sealing down the track, this stuff is excellent, used by many including engine reconditioners. A mate who works in the industry put me onto it. Have shared it with a few forum members who had it work for them.
 
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