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Previously known as twodiffs
1991 GQ Safari.
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3,684 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.
Can anyone confirm if the GQ & GU front driveshafts are the same?.

My GQ shaft is stuffed but I've got a spare GU one stored away.

Thanks in advance.
 

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1,779 Posts
I believe the GU has wider axles, so presumably they wouldn’t be interchangeable.


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Previously known as twodiffs
1991 GQ Safari.
Joined
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3,684 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Not too sure about that mate. I have GU diffs under my SWB GQ Safari using the factory front driveshaft.
I'm thinking I might have to remove my front driveshaft and measuree length for length with the spare GU shaft to confirm.

My current shaft has a heap of slop in the yoke area so needs doing badly.
 

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nissan
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6,952 Posts
I think the drive shafts are the same. The GU axles are wider but that doesn't affect the drive shaft. The diff pumpkin is in the same place. What is different between some models is the uni joints are out of phase on most but some are in phase. I've never worked out the rhyme or reason to this.
 

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Ok, my bad, for some reason I thought you were talking about the axle shafts, not the prop shaft. Terminology problem


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Nissan
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328 Posts
I think the drive shafts are the same. The GU axles are wider but that doesn't affect the drive shaft. The diff pumpkin is in the same place. What is different between some models is the uni joints are out of phase on most but some are in phase. I've never worked out the rhyme or reason to this.
When I built my ute, I looked at the front shaft as I was about to install it and noticed it was out of phase . I checked under a few new wagons at the Nissan dealer and the 4 I looked at, 3 were in different positions !
I can only assume that the factory guys just slammed them together coz they didnt know about phasing .

Would love to hear how the other guys here have their shafts aligned .
 

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nissan
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I've been told that the front shaft should be out of phase because the output shaft of the transfer case is not parallel with the input shaft of the diff, however I've also seen several that were in phase. My own is out of phase, as are most that I've looked at.
 

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2016 CRD wagon
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1,403 Posts
I have a 2016 patrol and the front shaft is out of phase. I've often wondered about it and if that is the cause of a slight issue I have.
I have an elocker too though, but I wouldn't have thought the workshop that installed it would have reason to change the phasing of the shaft

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Every dog has his day
2005 TD42 GUIV
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18,418 Posts
A point to consider, it depends on the engine in the GU that the shaft came out of, so there isn’t a blanket answer to your question.

ZD30s, for example, are about 30mm further forward than TD42s, so the front shaft would be a bit shorter and the rear shaft a bit longer on a ZD30 GU than a TD42.
 
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1989 GQ TD42 wagon
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2,633 Posts
A point to consider, it depends on the engine in the GU that the shaft came out of, so there isn’t a blanket answer to your question.

ZD30s, for example, are about 30mm further forward than TD42s, so the front shaft would be a bit shorter and the rear shaft a bit longer on a ZD30 GU than a TD42.
Are they actually different part numbers though? Or do Nissan just allow the slip joint to take up the difference?
 

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Every dog has his day
2005 TD42 GUIV
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18,418 Posts
Are they actually different part numbers though? Or do Nissan just allow the slip joint to take up the difference?
The GU TD42 front and rear shafts that I bought to replace the ZD30 ones when I did my conversion are different.
 

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nissan patrol y61 td4.2tdi
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95 Posts
Hi Team,
back in the day of VK crumpledoors our stock 202 vibrated the drive line on acceleration and had a noisy diff.
Looked underneath and saw each end uni out of phase--these shafts have a CV joint in the middle and a standard universal joint on each outer end of the two shafts that make the complete drive line.
When I spoke to so called GM experts they said they are all like that from the factory by design.
My early 1960's Motor Mechanic Apprentice training told me this was surely incorrect.

Hardy Spicer said as much and showed me their book of drive shafts and sure enough some drive shaft uni's are designed to be out of alignment (phasing) some lead and some lag--the out of phase condition built in by design at the factory.

Also just recalled that my sons hot VH had a 9" in it with a H/Spicer single piece no centre bearing or CV joint special built drive shaft that was out of phase "as per their book" Got it re-phased at my risk, no warranty, and the drive line issues that we speak of were gone.

One person I spoke to who did his time at a GM Dealer--yeah I know-- said even GM had diff noise and vibration trouble with this model--really, I wonder why.
He said they were told by GM the shaft assembly had a CV joint in the middle to compensate for this baloney. GM came out with specially lapped crown wheel and pinion sets for these also to no avail.
My experience of similar issues on earth moving equipment with shafts that had drive line vibration was nearly always found to be miss aligned uni-joint assemblies on the shafts.

Back to the VK--I checked many VK's etc. in car parks and found some were aligned, as I would assemble them, and most were not.
I had to dismantle the CV to align the shaft end cross joints and low and behold no diff noise and no drive line vibration on acceleration.

Your experience may vary but aligning the joints is my suggestion.
Regards,
Eddie B.
 

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nissan
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Your experience may vary but aligning the joints is my suggestion.
Your advice makes no mention about the input and output shafts being parallel. Are you saying the u-joints should be in phase regardless of this?
 

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nissan
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The classic video.
It's a shame they didn't go into improving rotational uniformity with non parallel input and output shafts. I realise it's impossible to get it perfect but it would be interesting to see what needs to be done and how much it can be improved.
 

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nissan patrol y61 td4.2tdi
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95 Posts
Hi Overboard,
as said, my experience tells me the joints should be phased, BUT, I am not an Engineer and my practical experience shows to expect vibration with joints miss phased--I could see a degree or two lead phase to allow for tailshaft twisting/windup under heavy drive loads.
The Hardy Spicer book showed lead or lag depending upon the make and model of vehicle and their people I spoke to could not explain why--they got an older fellow with years of experience from the workshop to talk to me and he could not explain either.
I too would like to know why the engineers design in the lead/lag phasing but no one I have spoken to can tell me!!!!

Not sure what you mean by shafts being parallel but assume you mean in phase or aligned with no lead/lag to the joint positioning relative to one or the other on either end of a shaft.
As the great video above ably demonstrates and that I have posted several times here before in threads on drive line issues demonstrates flange angles are a factor as well if they outside of the stated tolerances.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Eddie B.
 

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1989 GQ TD42 wagon
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2,633 Posts
Hi Overboard,
as said, my experience tells me the joints should be phased, BUT, I am not an Engineer and my practical experience shows to expect vibration with joints miss phased--I could see a degree or two lead phase to allow for tailshaft twisting/windup under heavy drive loads.
The Hardy Spicer book showed lead or lag depending upon the make and model of vehicle and their people I spoke to could not explain why--they got an older fellow with years of experience from the workshop to talk to me and he could not explain either.
I too would like to know why the engineers design in the lead/lag phasing but no one I have spoken to can tell me!!!!

Not sure what you mean by shafts being parallel but assume you mean in phase or aligned with no lead/lag to the joint positioning relative to one or the other on either end of a shaft.
As the great video above ably demonstrates and that I have posted several times here before in threads on drive line issues demonstrates flange angles are a factor as well if they outside of the stated tolerances.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Eddie B.
I think he meant, "If the drive flanges are not parallel [which they aren't on a Patrol], does the phasing then matter?"

I know some Blandcruisers and Land Dogs came out with the unis set deliberately out of phase, as this [apparently -- I'm no driveshaft expert, but this was as explained to me] lowered the maximum and average amplitude of the vibrations, but increased the frequency.
 

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nissan patrol y61 td4.2tdi
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95 Posts
Hi dkril,
now you explain that set up it now starts to make sense in that with the flanges out of spec then with the phasing out a calculated amount in the right direction and amount they could begin to cancel one an other out somewhat.
As usual I stand to be corrected.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
 

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nissan
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Not sure what you mean by shafts being parallel
I mean that if you draw an infinitely long line down the axis of the transfer case output shaft and the axis of the front diff input/pinion shaft that these two lines would be parallel as they are (almost) on the rear axle. They are a long way from parallel on the front axle. The transfer case output shaft slopes upwards in a forwards direction at the same angle as the engine and gearbox while the pinion shaft on the front diff slopes the other way. From what I've been told the u-joints should be in phase if both shafts sloped in the same direction at the same angle but they don't.

unis set deliberately out of phase, as this lowered the maximum and average amplitude of the vibrations, but increased the frequency.
That is what I've been told as well but it doesn't explain to me why I occasionally see Patrol front shafts that are in phase. My suspicion is that the owners that don't know better have rephased the shaft to suit what they are used to, which happens to be wrong in that application.
 
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