[neRok]

i got a pm from (EST)MahviaDeTyrk saying that some of my diff info was not totally correct, so im trying to get it sorted. my dodgy info is in relation to the H233 (+B) diffs.

ive been doing heaps of google reading and from what i can gather
- H233 have 10mm ring bolts @ 180mm PCD and H233B have 12mm ring bolts @ 176mm PCD.
- H233 are in MQ rear and are only 31 spline.
- H233B are in GQ front and rear and are 31 and 33 spline.
this is all confirmed by the ARB air locker catalogue, different part numbers for the 3.

(EST)MahviaDeTyrk mentions that H233B were in the rear of some MK, anyone confirm?
and to add further confusion, the service manual lists all the rear diffs as H233B. this must be wrong.

so summing all this up;

Lockers\LSD that replace the whole centre (ie attach to the ring)
- a GQ rear locker cannot be used in a MQ because they have more splines.
- a GQ front locker will not bolt into a MQ rear, because they have different ring bolts.
- a GQ front locker will bolt into a MK rear, if they exist.

Now something like a Lokka or mini-spool, which replace the spider gears inside an open centre, these should be compatible between GQ front and any MQ/MK rear, because they are all 31 spline.

Ring+Pinion
- GQ R+P from front and rear diffs will not bolt into a MQ rear, because they have different ring bolts.
- GQ R+P from front and rear diffs will bolt to MK rear, if they exist.

Now a couple of questions, are the 3rd members (ring, pinion and centre bolt in assembly) all the same and interchangable into different housings? i found the following on another site;
"The H233B 3rd member changed from 9 bolts to 11 studs to hold it to the housing beginning with the 1990 models. Somewhere along this time (maybe around 6/89, the bolts holding the ring gear to the carrier changed from 10mm to 12mm, making a difference in replacement gear sets."
I think this comment is slightly wrong, it must be trying to say that when the H233B came about with its 12mm ring bolts, the third member also gained 2 extra bolts. So to answer my own question, H233B third member is not interchangable with H233, correct?

I havent heard of a MK 3rd that would not bolt into a MQ, so this suggests to me there is no H233B rears in MQ/MK. Or the third member bolt pattern has nothing to do with its 'internals', ie it can be 9 bolt and 12mm ring bolt and still be H233B.

Last question, the pinion flanges (to the driveshafts), are these the same? I tried putting a GQ driveshaft into the rear of my MQ, but the flange was too big. I dont remember if I used a GQ front or rear though, so dont know if both GQ have larger flange pattern or if only 33 spline H233B have bigger flange. This actually poses another question, are these pinions all the same H233/H233B and will they swap between the different 3rds? And will the flanges swap on the different pinions. And will a H233B ring/pinion/centre from a 11 bolt 3rd bolt into a MQ 9 bolt 3rd?

 

[neRok]

further research i found hte following;

======================================================================
No the flanges are not interchangable.

It seems pre 90 diffs with bolts have a 27 spline on the pinion flange
Post 90 diffs with studs have a 29 spline on the pinion flange

This is regardless wether or not it is a Large bolt circle or small bolt circle flange.
======================================================================
All 33-spline carriers are 4-pinion 2-piece units, but the 31-spline open carriers are 2-pinion 1-piece units. this means a 33 spline spider gear cannot be swapped for a 31 spline spider gear.
======================================================================

 

[neRok]

hey Jelmer, if you read this, im reading your thread, http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-mq-mk-12/arb-locker-install-issues-56061/

trying to decifer that thread, the 260 patrol has C200 front so the front parts went in no problems. Is the rear 31 spline H233B? Sounds like you had the arb for the H233 (MQ) with only 10mm bolts. it wouldnt fit with the H233B ring because of the different bolts, so you got it re-drilled to suit. then it fit on the ring and within the H233B 3rd member. but then the H233B 3rb member didnt fit into your H233 housing, because it was too deep, so you made a spacer.

you mention tap and drill new holes, is that because the new 3rd has 11 bolts compared to the old 9?

you also didnt mention anything about driveshaft or flanges. im pretty sure someone mentioned that GQ H233B 31 spline front flange is the same as MQ flanges, its only GQ H233B 33 spline (rear) that are larger. if the spanish 260 are 31 spline rear as im guessing, is this why the flanges were the same? or did you swap them? did you notice a different spline count on the end of the pinion?

 

[Jelmer160]

Let's make this clear!unkrock:

The 260 has exactly the same 3rd member as a GQ: 33 splines, 11 bolt housing with 12mm studs, GQ bolt spacing for the ring gear.

So basicly I'm running a MK with a GQ 3rd member.

This is what I did to make it fit:

The 260/GQ ring gear didn't fit the MQ ARB locker because the 260/GQ ring gear has bigger bolts and they are in a smaller circle/more to the center (can't explain it better in English).

I had a friend who redrild the MQ ARB locker to suit the 260/GQ ring gear. After it fitted I put it in the 260/GQ 3rd member but I ran in to the next problem:

The 260/GQ 3rd member seated deeper in the MK axle housing. So we made a aluminium spacer of exactly 4mm.

Next problem where the bolts that hold the 3rd member in the axle housing, 11 for the 260/GQ and 9 for the MK.

The ones on the left side (iff you look from the front of the car) have the same position but the ones on the right where different. We drilled and taped the left side and put the 3rd member in. Than we drilled he right side and took the 3rd meber out again. We taped the right side now but 2 of the 260/GQ holes where to close to the gap for the ring gear so we left them. I've put 10mm studs in the taped holes and fitted the 3rd member.

When I put oil in it the lower hole that was too close to the ring gear gap started leaking!
Just a tiny litle bit but enough to make me want to put the whole Patrol on fire and forget it!!:wink::wink:

I welded the holes up but since it is cast it woudn't weld very good whitout heating it up. So next week I have to take it apart again and weld the regular steel axle housing. Good thing about it is that the ARB locker is leaking cause of the part where the o-ring seat is grooved. I've ordered a new part so when it is in I take the 3rd member out again.

So when you want to put in a GQ diff------> don't do it!!

I think Nissan just started making a different H233B after 1988, cause early D21's have a H233B to with the same ring gear as the MK.

 

[Jelmer160]

Forgot the mention: I use a flange from a Y60/GQ rearend we had laying around. So the MK driveshaft bolts right to a GQ flange. I don't know the year of this GQ rearend.

 

[neRok]

thanks jelmer, i think youve answered all my questions. i will update my wiki page tomorrow, make sure i know everything, will report back.

 

[Jelmer160]

No problem offcourse! We can make this Wiki work great!!:iconbana:

 

[charo249]

Have been going through this recently myself with my 86 MK here is what I have found
GQ rear locker will not fit due to axle size and spline count
GQ front locker won't fit into the rear of MK (I have tried) as there seems to be a difference in the size of the diff centre which is 90mm (the lockright for the front of an GQ is 94mm suggesting that the diff centre on a GQ is over 94mm). This must be one of the differences of the H233B over the straight H233 diff.
I am currently investigating a "Lokka" for my rear diff as they have told me they can get one that fits.

If you have any questions about the inside of an MK diff just ask - as mine is currently still out of my truck so could measure or check anything for you.

Disregard my statement in red found some clutch plates behind my spider gears which means my rear diff used to be limited slip (had checked with truck jacked up and from out in the field and it was behaving like a open diff). This means that GQ front locker may fit into MK rear open centre?

 

[neRok]

thanks for the info charo249. i could do with some info from you. how many bolts hold the 3rd member to the housing? and are the bolts holding the ring gear 10 or 12mm? this will let me identify it.

 

[neRok]

hey jelmer, i was just updating the wiki and something occured to me. with the rear diff, when you modified the H233 ARB to fit the H233B ring gear, why didnt you then fit the H233B ring and pinion into the H233 third member? then you wouldnt of had to muck around with the spacer and taping new bolts into the housing.

 

[Jelmer160]

That's because I wanted 5.14 gears. And the only Patrol with 5.14 gears is a 260 with the GQ 3rd member.
And I wanted to use my ARB locker instead of a worn LSD.

But I still think Nissan calls both axles the H233B, the GQ/260 one is just a "updated" version.

 

[charo249]

8 bolts hold diff to axle housing and bolts holding crown wheel to diff were 10mm in diameter - think I got it right was dark when I went out to check

 

[neRok]

thanks charo, sounds like H233 (should have 9 bolts though). MK featuring H233B rear axle does not sound likely to me.

jelmer, why didnt you swap the 5.14 ring and pinion into your original 3rd member?

ps- i think ive got all this info into the wiki now. http://nerok.info/differential/info and http://nerok.info/differential/gq_parts

 

[Jelmer160]

The 260/GQ 3rd member was taller/longer than the MK diff. The pinion was like 4cm longer.

 

[(EST)MahviaDeTyrk]

http://nerok.info/differential/info - cool - now I like that all

 

[charo249]

Correct in the daylight there are definately 9 bolts

 

[phnx85]

Sorry to bump an older thread but it seems like this was the right one for my question.

I have an 85 Patrol SD33T and if i understood all the stuff i have read it has got 4.111 gearing, C200 front axle and H233 rear.

I'm looking for lower gearing and ARB lockers. Mabye this is just me brain farting but would it be possible to use a ARB front locker from a GQ (RD136 with 31 spline) in my rear H233 and H233B ring & pinion?

In summary H233 3rd member and axle housing, H233B front ARB locker and rear H233B ring and pinion

 

[neRok]

If you are in Australia and have a factory SD33T vehicle, your diffs should be 4.3. You can get 4.6 diffs from an SD33 or L28 MQ, that's your easiest option. There are lower ratios, but they are extremely hard to come by.

Re locker and the info on Diff Info | MQ-Patrol.com, I am not sure if MK rear is 'H233B' as shown on that page. 1980 MQ service manuals calls them H233B diffs, but they have the 10mm ring bolts (H233 on the wiki page). GQ have the 12mm ring bolts (H233b on the wiki page). People say the MK rear changed to the 12mm version at some stage, but I am not sure/convinced.

 

[MQMyles]

In case it's any help, my 1986 MK had the 10 bolt crownwheel (H233) rear diff. When I put an air locker in I changed the innards to a 31 spline H233B (9 bolt crowwheel) diff without a problem.

Myles

 

[GQ TANK]

I just put a MK h233B lsd centre into the front of my 91 GQ - h233b.

I had to drill and file out the LSD ring gear mounting bolts, as the MK had 10mm, while the GQ had 12mm bolts.

I had to swap the ring gear, as the MK was 4.3 - and my GQ is 4.11

Everything else matched up.