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1985 SD33T MK LWB Wagon
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I swear every time I take out a diff something goes wrong.
Anyway, as I'm currently putting a GU H260 carrier into my MK housing to get a 4.375 ratio, I've come across a problem that could end up being quite big, or could be an easy fix (probably not).

In the MK diff, the way the wheel bearings work is that they are tight when the wheel is pulled outward from the hub, and get looser as the wheel is pushed inwards, the way the outside one keeps from reaching the limit of the loose side of the bearing is as it is pushed inwards, the axle shaft touches a solid plate or spacer inside the center that also touches the other axle, pushing it out, so all of the sideways force is put onto the bearing of the inside wheel, through both axles touching a common piece in the middle. You can see that piece in this picture here:
Automotive tire Camera lens Rim Audio equipment Cameras & optics


Now I've gotten to the point where I've drilled and tapped the housing for the new GU carrier, gotten midway through bolting it in, looked into one end of the axle tube and this is the sight I'm greeted with:
Iris Wood Gas Circle Darkness


No plate in the centre, you can see straight through to the other side.
Now I want to know if anyone has info on how this works, whether the plate is attached to the spider gear pin maybe and can be swapped in if I take the diff apart, otherwise I don't know what to do anymore.

sigh every time I take a diff out something goes wrong
When I originally was going to put the 233 in, the LSD was busted
When I went to put the 4.375 front with my newly installed locker in (build thread soon), I stripped a U-bolt and had to wait a week to get a new one
Now this. It's quite frustrating.

Anyway enough rant, anyone got any ideas?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Otherwise, is it possible to put the GU ring gear onto the MK LSD, and bolt it into the GU carrier? So the only difference is the LSD?
I’ve noticed that the GU ring gear is a lot thicker than the MK one, and the MK one has a shim in between it and the LSD to space it out since it’s thinner
So are the rings backwards-compatible?

Edit:
the GU LSD also has a shim in between the ring and lsd, but the mounting surface is placed further away from the ring so the spacing is still good, so I don't know whether the ring would be compatible. Has anyone done it before?

Edit #2 for people reading this in the future:
the "shim" was actually me just not knowing that there are 2 halves of the LSD bolted together, so 2 rings of metal behind the ring gear, and I assumed at the time that the second one was a spacer or "shim".

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Alright, how hard is it to take apart the LSD? I've figured out the GU 260 still has the spot for the floating plate to go into, just doesn't have the plate itself, so if I can pull apart the LSD enough to get it out, I can swap it over, but is it possible to dissasemble the LSD center itself? Or is it spring-loaded or something?

Any help is appreciated
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Alright, how hard is it to take apart the LSD? I've figured out the GU 260 still has the spot for the floating plate to go into, just doesn't have the plate itself, so if I can pull apart the LSD enough to get it out, I can swap it over, but is it possible to dissasemble the LSD center itself? Or is it spring-loaded or something?

Any help is appreciated
Google nissan h260 limited slip differential pdf, in an ARB file there is a PDF on parts and you may find an exploded view somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Google nissan h260 limited slip differential pdf, in an ARB file there is a PDF on parts and you may find an exploded view somewhere.
Ok cool, I'll do that tomorrow (today because it's late), I'm free all day and my day's job will be "fix diff"
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Have you downloaded the XV supp electronic workshop manual? I haven't searched the relevant section but there could be an exploded view and info in there, my 2000 came with a H260 so there must be some info in there somewhere, finding it may take time as there weren't a heap of them came out. Will check myself a little later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Have you downloaded the XV supp electronic workshop manual? I haven't searched the relevant section but there could be an exploded view and info in there, my 2000 came with a H260 so there must be some info in there somewhere, finding it may take time as there weren't a heap of them came out. Will check myself a little later.
I haven't no, which one's the "XV supp" one? I've looked through the "GU electronic workshop manuals" in your signature but can't find anything about the 260, I hope I'm looking in the right spot?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Also I'm incorrect, when I said there's a shim in between the ring gear and LSD, I'm currently watching a video on removing the h233 lsd (the big one) and it's just the 2 halves of the lsd. I didn't realise that's how they bolted together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Is this what you’re after?

View attachment 542226
Yep that's the one! Thanks for finding that. I'm assuming the H260 and H233 (big lsd) have similar construction, just upscaled a bit, especially by the looks of that image and the video I watched about the H233.

In that image you can see where the spacer sits, inside the "Pinion mate shaft" on the MK lsd. It just fits inside the hole in the centre and can slide either way so that the axles can move side to side slightly. All I should need to do is take both centre's apart side-by-side and swap the spacer out from one to the other. If the hole in the centre is a different size (shouldn't be just by looking through the side of the diff) I might be able to swap over the whole spider gear centre from the "pressure rings" inwards, or just swap the entire internals over, but hopefully I can just pull out the thin bit in the middle and use it.

Speaking of swapping stuff between the 2, is there an easy way to see which LSD is in better condition? Obviously my one is a fair bit older and had to put up with the abuse of a 351 cleveland for a fair amount of it's life, but I also don't think it did much hard 4wding work in that time either. So I wonder if there's a noticeable difference in the limiting action between the 2?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update: the GU centre and LSD are apart, I’ve taken all the bits out and put them back in 1 by 1 so I know how the LSD all works now. Time to pull apart the MK centre.



P.S. the side gears in this thing are absolutely huge!

P.P.S. It was “spring loaded” like I suspected, however there’s 3 beefy Phillips head screws that hold the 2 sides of the LSD casing together. The spring plates that force the clutches together run out of spring before the screws run out of thread so I was able to seperate the halves just by unscrewing the screws slowly and carefully. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to put it back together the same way because there’s not a lot of thread to grab onto when it’s apart like in the first photo, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.

P.P….. nevermind
I haven’t looked at a manual yet, just going off the H233 video I watched and figuring out how it all works and goes together on my own for now. I kinda learn better that way anyway, but if I get stuck I’ll break out the PDF’s.

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Update: the GU centre and LSD are apart, I’ve taken all the bits out and put them back in 1 by 1 so I know how the LSD all works now. Time to pull apart the MK centre.



P.S. the side gears in this thing are absolutely huge!

P.P.S. It was “spring loaded” like I suspected, however there’s 3 beefy Phillips head screws that hold the 2 sides of the LSD casing together. The spring plates that force the clutches together run out of spring before the screws run out of thread so I was able to seperate the halves just by unscrewing the screws slowly and carefully. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to put it back together the same way because there’s not a lot of thread to grab onto when it’s apart like in the first photo, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.

P.P….. nevermind
I haven’t looked at a manual yet, just going off the H233 video I watched and figuring out how it all works and goes together on my own for now. I kinda learn better that way anyway, but if I get stuck I’ll break out the PDF’s.

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Doing it and learning as you go makes it something you will never forget, but having a reference along the way helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Doing it and learning as you go makes it something you will never forget, but having a reference along the way helps.
Yep for sure, when I’m done, is it possible for me to rename this thread to something along the lines of “how to: GU H260 centre into MK axle housing”? Or should I make a seperate thread for that. I just think it’d be a more helpful title for people who want to do the same thing and are searching for info. Or should I make a new thread to explain it?


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Yep for sure, when I’m done, is it possible for me to rename this thread to something along the lines of “how to: GU H260 centre into MK axle housing”? Or should I make a seperate thread for that. I just think it’d be a more helpful title for people who want to do the same thing and are searching for info. Or should I make a new thread to explain it?


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This thread has all the history so keep it all in here and we can change the name later and put it into the archives.
 

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Update: the GU centre and LSD are apart, I’ve taken all the bits out and put them back in 1 by 1 so I know how the LSD all works now. Time to pull apart the MK centre.



P.S. the side gears in this thing are absolutely huge!

P.P.S. It was “spring loaded” like I suspected, however there’s 3 beefy Phillips head screws that hold the 2 sides of the LSD casing together. The spring plates that force the clutches together run out of spring before the screws run out of thread so I was able to seperate the halves just by unscrewing the screws slowly and carefully. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to put it back together the same way because there’s not a lot of thread to grab onto when it’s apart like in the first photo, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.

P.P….. nevermind
I haven’t looked at a manual yet, just going off the H233 video I watched and figuring out how it all works and goes together on my own for now. I kinda learn better that way anyway, but if I get stuck I’ll break out the PDF’s.

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The PDF will be required to know friction and plate specs to check for wear and also what torque to set the required friction to. It will also explain how you need to put the case in a press to put the screws back in.
You can’t learn that just by taking something apart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The PDF will be required to know friction and plate specs to check for wear and also what torque to set the required friction to. It will also explain how you need to put the case in a press to put the screws back in.
You can’t learn that just by taking something apart.
Yep, I’ve had a read and it’s confirmed the press, I suspected that and now I know. We don’t have a hydraulic press at home, so I’ll either have to come up with a diy solution or take the centres to someone who does.

Now that both centres are apart I’ll compare some differences between the 2.
On the left is the MK 260 and on the right is the GU.

At a first glance they look pretty well identical, as they should, being technically the same diff centre. However there are a couple initial differences on the surface.

Firstly, the outer casing is cast differently. As you can see in this photo, the MK casing has the ring gear mount closer to the centre, whereas the GU casing has the mounting point closer to the edge. This is either because of, or the cause of, the GU ring gear being thicker than the MK gear. I would assume this is for strength, however cannot be sure.


The bolts are also a different size in each ring gear, so even if they were the same thickness, they couldn’t easily be swapped.

As well as this, the GU LSD has 3 screws holding the 2 casing sides together, whereas the MK one has 4.

More to come


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Both LSD’s have the same assortment of clutch rings in the same order, so should be able to be swapped easily. The order (from outside-in) is spring, spring, housing, spider, housing, spider (Housing and spider being the part the clutch spins with).

The spider gear housings are identical and can be swapped. In this photo only the top ones are swapped (just to show) and they are indistinguishable from each other.



Now, this is the only reason I opened up these diffs, and it’s such a small piece that is critical to how the MK solid rear axle works. Because the MQ/MK rear wheel bearings only support lateral (sideways) force in 1 direction, outwards from the diff, the axles touch this piece in the centre. When going around a corner, the inside wheel is being pulled away from the axle, pulling the wheel bearing nice and tight and making it hold the sideways force of the vehicle. The outside wheel is pushed towards the housing, making the bearing looser the closer it gets, so all of the sideways force on the outside tire is transferred through the axle itself, through this centre part, through the other axle, and out onto the inside wheel bearing. GQ/GU patrols have wheel bearings that support lateral force in both directions so don’t need this centre part, however the space is still there in the GU diff for it to sit inside, which is perfect.
The centre piece doesn’t actually put any force on the diff itself, it has space to move to either side, and the wheel bearings stop it from hitting the splines on the spider gears, so it just floats around fairly loosely in the middle until sideways force is put on the vehicle and it is sandwiched in between the axles.
Late warning: long explanation


So I’m happy that Nissan for some reason decided to just remove the spacer and keep the spot for it to go instead of go to a regular pin setup for the spiders. That means now I can get back to reassembling the diffs, with the 4.11 now fit for a GQ/GU, only needing the holes in the diff carrier drilled out to suit the bigger 10mm bolts, and the 4.375 now fit for my MK, and probably ever so slightly better in both condition and design than the one that came out. The only downside is that for every new GQ/GU H260 I put into the housing (I don’t plan on doing this again any time soon) I’ll have to take the LSD apart and move this spacer into it.

Oh also the spider gears and everything are identical, it looks like they only changed the design externally, not internally, so if you’ve got an old MK H260 diff that’s feeling a bit loose (mine didn’t I just wanted the ratio), a rebuild kit for a GQ/GU one will work, or even just swapping all of the internals over from a second hand one should work too.


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That whole deal where it pushes through the centre portion to the oposite bearing had me very confused and swearing and nearly going to drink when I replaced my centre portion last weekend. I have never before had both shafts out at the same time. When I did the wheel bearings I had one out at a time and put it back and checked the end play before going to the other side.

So when I got to put my sideshafts back this time, I found I had 5mm end play and no way take more shims out. Then made the mistake of taking it out before I went over to the other side to test that one which gave me the same result. Thought I had somehow ended up with the wrong centre portion. As far as I know the H260 also came in a full floater version, and I thought Murphy was messing with me.
Only later I realised the two sideshafts have to both be in so as to transfer the load to the oposite bearing.

I have this H260 under my Hardbody specifically because it has 4.88 gears. So heaven knows what I am going to do if I mess this diff up. Not many right drop 4.88 axles out there to choose from.
I will be trying to rescue my old centre portion which I believe and hope its nothing more than pinion bearings.

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