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Every dog has his day
nissan
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Discussion Starter #1
Now heim joints are stronger than ball joints and allow more flex.

As a result of previous events due to pathetic roadsafe crap ball joints that could have killed me (and they knew about it but didn't bother to recall products) I am somewhat nervous with ball joints.

Superior's heim joint ended rods are apparently road legal, however they only recommend them for competition vehicles as heim joints 'wear faster than ball joints'. That's difficult to quantify but I've had a heim joint on the chassis end of my front panhard for twelve years or so and replaced the joint only twice that I recall.

Off road race cars (especially buggies) have dozens of them all over suspension and steering, but them buggy drivers can afford to replace them often :)

The tie rod in particular would be a big pain in the behind to replace the joints as you'd need a wheel alignment every time you did it, not so bad if every three or four years but not so good if every year.

With ball joints, the downside of being ocd with maintenance is that they get one squeeze of grease too much, too often, and split boots which is another pita you don't get with heims.

Perhaps a good compromise would be heims on drag link (most flex required) and ball joints on tie rod (longest replacement interval)?

Any thoughts?

https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/4x4-driveline/steering/superior-tie-rod-heim-joint-solid-bar-nissan-patrol-gu-29622?filter=143,355
 

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My thoughts which often don’t amount to much is that a ball joint in general is user friendly and also protected from the elements where as the other type is exposed to dirt, salt etc



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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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My thoughts which often don’t amount to much is that a ball joint in general is user friendly and also protected from the elements where as the other type is exposed to dirt, salt etc



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You can get rubber boots for them.


I like shiny stuff
 

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Every dog has his day
nissan
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Discussion Starter #4
You can get rubber boots for them.
I like that idea. Eliminating grit, I'd imagine, would eliminate the bulk of the reason for wear in the first place.

I'll have a look on superior's website later and see if they offer them an an option, or is that where you got that from?
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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For a competition vehicle yes, for a road vehicle no, I've had a lot of experience with these types of joints over the years both in industry and vehicles and wouldn't even consider them for a vehicle that is going to be doing a lot of K's in all conditions. My 2 cents worth.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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What benefit over and above a std joint are you hoping to achieve?
 

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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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I like that idea. Eliminating grit, I'd imagine, would eliminate the bulk of the reason for wear in the first place.

I'll have a look on superior's website later and see if they offer them an an option, or is that where you got that from?
I found them when researching heim joints for my car after making a banana out of both tie rod and drag link on a stump. Needed to get car on the road quick so bought a couple of replacements. It got put on the backburner.
They are definitely on the list if I ever get them.

I like shiny stuff
 

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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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For a competition vehicle yes, for a road vehicle no, I've had a lot of experience with these types of joints over the years both in industry and vehicles and wouldn't even consider them for a vehicle that is going to be doing a lot of K's in all conditions. My 2 cents worth.
A factor in this is that Leethal's GQ is built like a competition vehicle underneath. Not even remotly close to original.

I like shiny stuff
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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A factor in this is that Leethal's GQ is built like a competition vehicle underneath. Not even remotly close to original.

I like shiny stuff
Doesn't really mean much to the discussion, I've seen and know his vehicle, if there is no added benefit then why do it, if he sees a benefit then go for it, opinion was asked for, I have experience so I gave it.
 

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nissan patrol
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Heim joints on tie rods/drag links - pros & cons?

You can get rubber boots for them.


I like shiny stuff


Like Leethal said, where can u get these from? Great idea


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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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They are stronger. They have a larger range of movement. Maintenance is a bit higher but meh. Small price to pay for piece of mind. They are relatively cheap and very easy to replace. Wouldn't even need a wheel alignment provided wheel wasn't moved in the process.
You wouldn't consider it for a stocker but this vehicle isn't built to stock standards. Everything else on it is comp spec.
Just my opinion...

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nissan
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I can't imagine those rubber boots lasting long on a suspension arm if you used the range of movement regularly.

In my experience Heim joints need to be replaced far too regularly to be used on the road.

I also thought they were illegal to use on road, I remember asking an engineer about them years ago and was told no way could I get them approved. That was on an old mini and long time ago though.
 

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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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I can't imagine those rubber boots lasting long on a suspension arm if you used the range of movement regularly.

In my experience Heim joints need to be replaced far too regularly to be used on the road.

I also thought they were illegal to use on road, I remember asking an engineer about them years ago and was told no way could I get them approved. That was on an old mini and long time ago though.
The Superior ones are a certified mod under NCOP.
I guess it really comes down to maintenance. I don't see why the boots wouldn't last at least as long as a normal boot.

I like shiny stuff
 

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Every dog has his day
nissan
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Discussion Starter #17
For a competition vehicle yes, for a road vehicle no, I've had a lot of experience with these types of joints over the years both in industry and vehicles and wouldn't even consider them for a vehicle that is going to be doing a lot of K's in all conditions.
Fair enough, but why?
 

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Wouldn’t they have more movement as in they would be sloppy ?


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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Fair enough, but why?
If used in a minor plain then there would be few issues but when used in extreme plains and conditions they require considerably higher monitoring than a std joint.

I asked a little later what you expected from them over and above a std joint, I know I don't use mine to the extremes you have at times but mine now have 361,000k on them and they are still fine, I'm not that easy on them either, sand/mud/water/rocks/hot/cold :)
 

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Every dog has his day
nissan
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Discussion Starter #20
As I’ve said I have a heim joint on my panhard for the last dozen years. The shortest lived one lasted four years before it got a bit of slop in it (about 2mm). It paid for itself by taking all the twisting movement for the team, and as a result I’ve only replaced the bush at the diff end once. Ever. Even then I just thought I should, it seemed fine.

On a tie rod, movement would be very limited as the rod remains i the same plane, it would twist rather than pivot, if that makes sense. You’d still want a wheel alignment if you changed it I reckon, even a tiny bit out makes a difference I’d imagine?

The drag link would get a fair bit more movement and I can see more advantages there.

If the boots only last a year each that’s a year with less wear than they’d otherwise have.

A couple of mates have these on patrol race cars, I’ll have to get hold of them and ask thoughts. I’m not sold on them which is why I’m asking, but I like things to be indestructible, which is why people broke trailers, kaymars and diffs on the Gunbarrel last month and I did a headlight globe. Peace of mind is what I want.

Cheers for input so far gents.
 
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