Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Resident Social Democrat
Joined
·
6,258 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
YES, I've searched, and as a matter of fact, I've read just about every thread on this forum, Outers and 4wd Action on the diesel V8 options.

As a ZD30 owner who is working on N.A.D.S. for it, I find myself often tossing up the options:

TD42T
Chev 6.5 N/A (at least initally- supercharging looks cool!)
Duramax

Whilst I'm not made of money, I like to think that the GU is a long term project and when the ZD30 eventually does die (hopefully after 400 000+ or so km's!!), I'd like to have a plan ready to go. Ideally, I'd love to have the alternative built and sitting on an engine stand ready to go when the ZD30 gives up!

I have fluctuated between the Chev and the TD42T, had a short dalliance with the thought of Cummins 6BT (ultra COOL, but WAAAAAAY too much money and not enough of them done in Oz!!).

What I have found from reading the engine swap threads and some basic research is that the difference between buying a TD42T (about $7000 for a low jap import or a bit more if I bought an old TD42, rebuilt it and threw on a hairdryer) and Chev 6.5 (about $10k for a 'remanufactured' engine or $11k+ for a new one in Oz OR $5-7k from the US + importing costs).

When I saw the cost of the motors alone, I thought still cheaper than the alleged $20k+ for a Duramax. But online I've found Duramax's for $5-7k!

So, what are the opinions of those out there? I know I'm not the only ZD30 owner who will put on N.A.D.S. and WILL NOT replace their ZD30 with another when the original motor expires, but what are the REAL differences in REAL costs between going to a TD42T, a Chev 6.5 diesel V8 and a Duramax?

Off the top of my head, the electrics changes required for the TD42T and 6.5 swap would be pretty close, but the adaptor plate (to gearbox) and engine mounts for the 6.5 would add to the cost. The electrics for the Durmax would be more as would the 'custom nature of the swap, but another $800-1000 for electrics would be well worth it in the long run!! Also, having to purchase the Allison auto would add more to the total outlay as would have to get drive shafts remanufactured to suit the new gearbox/transfer case adds to the total outlay also.

But what are the REAL costs? Personally, I'd hate to go to the trouble of installing a TD42T (total cost $15k (conservative guessing!), only to find that I could have had a Chev 6.5 for only $3-5k more. And how much more would a Duramax cost? From my point of view, I am capable of doing most of the mechanical work, but my fabrication skills are VERY limited. I recall some threads where people have installed 5L Holden V8's, only to be disappointed with the perfomance and the cost of an LS1/L76/LS2 swap was not much more, or even the same cost as the price of LS1's drop and Holden 5L rise as they become more scarce.

Just trying to stir some informed debate, particularly if you've done one of the swaps, from a community of people with ALOT of knowledge and interest in this type of stuff. We all tinker and think 'what if.....'

Over to you and your helpful commentary.
 

·
Registered
Nissan
Joined
·
527 Posts
Dave if you test drive the 3 engines the Duramax will put the biggest smile on your dial "Guaranteed"

It will however be at least 10k dearer than the 6.5 & you will need someone who knows what they are doing to do the leckies for you... massively difficult not just plug n play..

The quotes on a 4.2 cnversion were close to the same for a 6.5 when i did mine so it was a no brainer... i could not do it myself though but you can buy a complete kit its available through a few Businesses to make things easier.

Two of us 6.5 owners live on the Gold Coast if you want to take a drive in mine..
 

·
Registered
nissan patrol
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
What he said.

But I believe a Duramax is going to cost in the vicinity of about $40K if someone does it for you. The big bucks is the manufacture of the 1 off additional bits n pieces.

If you are good on the spanners, you can buy a complete kit for a 6.5 Chev and fit it yourself and do it for about $22K.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
1,422 Posts
is there any room for a blower? i thought the 6.5 was a tight fit?
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
I got two quotes for a fully rebuilt 4.2 conversion & it was around $22 from memory a N/A 6.5 would be about $25 installed i think..
Whack a blower on it later on if need or want is there.
I can't beleive a 4.2 conversion costs that much thats bs. You'd be better off just selling your car and buying a 4.2

is there any room for a blower? i thought the 6.5 was a tight fit?
The blower replaces the inlet manifold and sits in the valley so effectively doesn't take up much more room than the std inlet manifold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Having had a fourby with a engine conversion (not a Patrol) the benefit of more grunt does not out way the worry that something is going to go wrong when you're miles away from civilization. I appreciate that there are plenty of people that have had trouble free motoring after an engine conversion but for me the peace of mind that comes from a standard 4WD with replacements parts straight of the shelf anywhere I am is priceless.

Having said all that a mate's, just done the Holden V8 into his GU and I can't wait to take it for a spin.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
517 Posts
If I were to convert, I'd go a duramax.

Putting a 4.2 in a 3.0 is not worth it in my mind. When people search for a 4.2 they generally want the genuine article... especially if your asking good dollars come selling time.

If I were looking I'd be prepared to pay more for a vehicle that was converted by some reputiable. I've never been a fan of the 6.5 chevy - had to many mates who had niggling issues with them... not sure who they used but this has put me off.

I proposed to my wife that a series IV with a blown motor and 6.6 duramax conversion would be great for her........ Unfortunately I could not fool her.... she reckons it was my way of having two 4wd's. ;)
 

·
Registered
nissan patrol
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
Having had a fourby with a engine conversion (not a Patrol) the benefit of more grunt does not out way the worry that something is going to go wrong when you're miles away from civilization. I appreciate that there are plenty of people that have had trouble free motoring after an engine conversion but for me the peace of mind that comes from a standard 4WD with replacements parts straight of the shelf anywhere I am is priceless.

Having said all that a mate's, just done the Holden V8 into his GU and I can't wait to take it for a spin.

Funny you should say that!!!!

I can get parts quicker from Brunswich Diesels than I can from Nissan. And they'll overnight bag them anywhere you are. 2 days from Perth to Gold Coast for a new oil cooler. They are the parts I can't get off my local Cheapa Auto Spares guys. They seem to carry all the essentials.

I know it's sort of irrelevant, but I've been waiting over a week now for a windscreen washer pump.:rolleyes:

belts, hoses, filters, pumps, gaskets, are all common and available almost anywhere.
 

·
Resident Social Democrat
Joined
·
6,258 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the responses, particularly those that have done the swaps.

I think the biggest reason for the similar cost for the TD42T and the Chev 6.5 swap is the (disturbingly) similar price of the motors. I think the TD42T is a great motor, but when you can get a V8 diesel motor for close to the same price, you've got to wonder if (as a swap) they're an option that's worth the $$. The V8 diesels seem similar to TD42T's in that it makes more sense to buy a rebuilt one (or low km used), than to buy a rebuildable one and do it yourself.

I'm aware of the niggling issues, has anyone with the Chev had to/done the cooling system mods (extra water line from back of the head), have you had need to? There are are some early 6.2's that have issues with blocks and cranks, but most of those on forums that have done it have nothing but praise for them!

With a larger wallet, the Duramax would be the go though, I've always been a rev head and the modern diesel with a pack of wallop under the right boot would be great, but for my intended purpose, I reckon the old school Chev 6.5 would the job. If the bits to make the swap a bit more user friendly became available, then maybe a few extra $$ may become worth it!

I've never been one to drive my cars 'hard' (rev the ring out of them), so I've always thougth the effortless low down torque of the V8 diesel would suit me, my driving and as a capable offroader and touring vehicle. Being able to throw a super charger on it for the low down boost ($5600 from Bullet) at a later date is also a majorly appealing factor!

Great feedback to date, TA!
 

·
Autos are Superior
Joined
·
11,701 Posts
zoom0001 said:
If I were to convert, I'd go a duramax.
Putting a 4.2 in a 3.0 is not worth it in my mind.
I dont think the 4.2 or 3.0 would be worth it (at prices quoted above anyway)... You would go Project Toni (the landcruiser donk) at that price. Project TONI @ ExplorOz Blogs


I dont even think the Chev V8 at $25k drive in drive out is 'excellent' value but it is also an option. Taking in the amount you lose when you sell, not that its always a consideration, but it is with some people.

But I dont think any conversion is worth $40-50k in a Patrol. But thats me. I wonder how many others think with their brain not their heart or penis now that the price is out in the open that the Dura is worth the money to convert in a car worth 1/2 the conversion cost. It cant honestly be that much harder than the Chev to bolt up can it? and as said, the engine/box arent that much more to buy.

I'd take the opportunity to upgrade cars before i paid $50k on a conversion, not that I have $50.00 to put towards one
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
I dont think the 4.2 or 3.0 would be worth it (at prices quoted above anyway)... You would go Project Toni (the landcruiser donk) at that price.

But I dont think any conversion is worth $40-50k. but thats me.

I dont even think the Chev V8 at $25k drive in drive out is 'excellent' value but it is also an option. Taking in the amount you lose when you sell, not that its always a consideration, but it is with some people.
I agree why be scared of a Toyo motor
 

·
Autos are Superior
Joined
·
11,701 Posts
I agree why be scared of a Toyo motor
The standard 1HD-FTE motor 150KW 430NM that’s alien to me after the old ZD30 ( 116KW & 354KW ).
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
The standard 1HD-FTE motor 150KW 430NM that’s alien to me after the old ZD30 ( 116KW & 354KW ).
& plenty of bogans buy them and stack them so you can pick up wreaks pretty cheap.
 

·
Registered
nissan patrol
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
There's no issue with the cooling with the 6.5 kit. Mine sits on 83C all day and will hit about 87-90C max towing the camper up the beach giving it the berries. Heard the stories of hot spots but I can't find any externally with a laser thermometer. With the size of the radiator that comes with the kit, I can't see it getting hot, no matter what you do to it!!

Projest TONI worked out about the same price. Plus the extra time and effort. Much of a muchness really?? Unless ya want a bit of hoon under the bonnet. Nothing sounds like a big V8!!
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
There's no issue with the cooling with the 6.5 kit. Mine sits on 83C all day and will hit about 87-90C max towing the camper up the beach giving it the berries. Heard the stories of hot spots but I can't find any externally with a laser thermometer. With the size of the radiator that comes with the kit, I can't see it getting hot, no matter what you do to it!!

Projest TONI worked out about the same price. Plus the extra time and effort. Much of a muchness really?? Unless ya want a bit of hoon under the bonnet. Nothing sounds like a big V8!!
I love hoon, if its about the same price why wouldn't you? The extra time and effort is only in R&D because it hasn't really been done enough.
 

·
The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
Joined
·
15,790 Posts
The issues with the Chevy 6.5l V8 cooling and big end cracks are a thing of the past, as long as you buy a post 1996 engine. The 6.2l was eventually replaced outright by the 6.5l in 1993 and so never had the issues resolved and still suffers with it today I believe as you can still buy them crated. I did the walk in / walk out 6.5 Intercooled TD with Brunswick at 32k, you will get money off this for the old engine, depending on condition and this will range between 1k for marginal, to 5k in excellent condition. Zip for a 3lt grenade that had the pin pulled.

There are no real issues on the 6.5l anymore, and no engine management system to stop a bush mech from fixing them if you in the middle of nowhere. Parts are plentiful, either in Oz or the states, and it seems like it is a lot cheaper to buy in the US and import than source locally. However, as mentioned, if you do have urgent need then Brunswick will have and ship very fast.

I originally looked a duramax, but stopped when the price hit 32k, mind you I was going with an American crowd that does performance upgrades (electrics, injectors, turbo, intercooler etc) and that added to costs. However, it was not the cost that stopped me; it was finding someone who did not want me to mortgage the house to do the fitting that was the issue.

Like a lot of people, I do not have the facilities to do all the work myself. This and the cost of the performance upgrades would have put it in the 50k bracket. Now having the 6.5 TD I don’t know if I have the balls of Patrol28 for a duramax, the slightest bit of rain on the road can see me fishtailing as I accelerate, so having a duramax would see me facing the wrong way more times than not is my thinking, and my heavy right foot agrees. In saying that, if I knew then what I know now I would have gone supercharged in the chevy rather than turbo for roughly an extra 1k.

I also have a 4.2TD DX, and even with a 3in exhaust, advanced injection timing and injection pressure and got good improvement in low end torque at the wheels, but it still struggled to pull my 3.4t boat up a decent hill in anything above 2nd and I wore the clutch out pretty quick pulling a big boat out of deep water, and then backing it into my house which is steep up hill in reverse even using low range. Only reason I went for the 6.5l V8.

There is merit in what others have said in just upgrading to a 4.2TD original, though will cost as they are sort after. They can be improved performance wise a lot and would be suitable for most if you’re not towing a heavy boat, filling the vehicle with heaps of boat and dive equipment, as well as all the rest of the gear / spares / provisions you need to take away with you for the adventure.

Getting a non flogged out 1HD-FT is difficult at the best of times, people rebuild these great engines and they are sort after, so expect to pay again, even if bogans are stacking them left right and center, expect to pay for it. I had one in an 80 series, pretty much bullet proof, and crying shame about the drive trains they hook them up to. No absolutely nothing about fitting them to a patrol, but plenty have been done from what I have read.

And I don’t care what anyone says, you just can’t beat that V8 rumble coming up through ya balls..
 

·
Rogue
nissan gu patrol
Joined
·
20,212 Posts
Getting a non flogged out 1HD-FT is difficult at the best of times, people rebuild these great engines and they are sort after, so expect to pay again, even if bogans are stacking them left right and center, expect to pay for it. I had one in an 80 series, pretty much bullet proof, and crying shame about the drive trains they hook them up to. No absolutely nothing about fitting them to a patrol, but plenty have been done from what I have read.

And I don’t care what anyone says, you just can’t beat that V8 rumble coming up through ya balls..
You don't want 1HD-FT, you want a 1VD-FTV
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
You don't want 1HD-FT, you want a 1VD-FTV
Why? there the same power rating but one uses sh*tloads of oil. But as drillerboy stated theres nothing like that v8 rumble, especially when there's a bit of turbo whistle to go along with it! The 1vd does sound good with an exhaust.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top