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I looked right into this a few weeks ago. Plenty of good reasons to do it bit has to be done right and wait till you start pricing it all up. Over 2k just for the interchiller and was starting to get over 3k on the decent w2a system.

Would love to try it but couldn't justify the $$$$
 

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Discussion Starter #22
It's even more impressive when you think it not only effects the peak power/torque figures but these improvements are being made right from idle and throughout the entire rev range! The drivability of the vehicle with these low intake temps would be amazing. So glad I no longer care about what my boost gauge is doing, all I want now is the highest air density I can get.
yes i can feel the massive difference from a cold morning to a hot day. its a totally different beast to drive. so yes overall drivability would be vastly different.
the potential is huge. add water meth to the mix and you have huge air density and highly volatile air. my god it would pull like a freight train.
 

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yes i can feel the massive difference from a cold morning to a hot day. its a totally different beast to drive. so yes overall drivability would be vastly different.
the potential is huge. add water meth to the mix and you have huge air density and highly volatile air. my god it would pull like a freight train.
Surely it can only be ‘so’ effective though?
With absolutely no experience to back this up I couldn’t imagine wm doing anything if the iat were already at near sub zero levels.

Why not just get a massive water tank and run water inj at low boost levels?
I’ve had mine start as low as 5psi and can’t say I’ve felt like it’s needed it, the borg doesn’t need much egt or air density help.
Pending what turbo and fueling one has would probably show bias one way or another regarding using both systems or just the one.


I do agree that a cool morning does feel better however which contradicts almost everything I just said.. lol


It’s a td guys.. don’t get caught up in it. :)
Better things to spend money on.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Surely it can only be ‘so’ effective though?
With absolutely no experience to back this up I couldn’t imagine wm doing anything if the iat were already at near sub zero levels.

Why not just get a massive water tank and run water inj at low boost levels?
I’ve had mine start as low as 5psi and can’t say I’ve felt like it’s needed it, the borg doesn’t need much egt or air density help.
Pending what turbo and fueling one has would probably show bias one way or another regarding using both systems or just the one.


I do agree that a cool morning does feel better however which contradicts almost everything I just said.. lol


It’s a td guys.. don’t get caught up in it. :)
Better things to spend money on.
of course it can only be soo beneficial. but if it can handle 30psi worth of pressure and still produce almost zero degree inlet temps. it can only be a good thing. and pre turbo water meth would mean dense air into the turbo and further increased by the cooler can be better again.
but i dont have a bw turbo. my older ufi struggles a little bit down low and is fairly lazy below 2k
 

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[
Surely it can only be ‘so’ effective though?
With absolutely no experience to back this up I couldn’t imagine wm doing anything if the iat were already at near sub zero levels.

Why not just get a massive water tank and run water inj at low boost levels?
I’ve had mine start as low as 5psi and can’t say I’ve felt like it’s needed it, the borg doesn’t need much egt or air density help.
Pending what turbo and fueling one has would probably show bias one way or another regarding using both systems or just the one.


I do agree that a cool morning does feel better however which contradicts almost everything I just said.. lol


It’s a td guys.. don’t get caught up in it.

Better things to spend money on.
You do realise that simulator I used to get results testing intake temps was for a BorgWarner turbo. Don't know which one you're running Simcoe but I choose the EFR 7064 for the simulation. I'm sure yours performs exceptionally well but why would you turn down having extra density when you can get results like that. Which would also go hand in hand with the pre turbo water injection. There would most certainly be a limit to it though as you can only get so much drive from the turbine but if money/time/effort was of no concern I'd definitely have both on my car.
 

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You do realise that simulator I used to get results testing intake temps was for a BorgWarner turbo. Don't know which one you're running Simcoe but I choose the EFR 7064 for the simulation. I'm sure yours performs exceptionally well but why would you turn down having extra density when you can get results like that. Which would also go hand in hand with the pre turbo water injection. There would most certainly be a limit to it though as you can only get so much drive from the turbine but if money/time/effort was of no concern I'd definitely have both on my car.
Most of us the 6758 and mine did perform rather well, it’s apart at the moment with another snapped crank..
The 7064 didn’t perform as well.

I can’t read those graphs.. lol

I’d make a pre turbo jig first and ditch my pre manifold injection before I went to silly.
Td’s were meant to be simple.. lol
 

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of course it can only be soo beneficial. but if it can handle 30psi worth of pressure and still produce almost zero degree inlet temps. it can only be a good thing. and pre turbo water meth would mean dense air into the turbo and further increased by the cooler can be better again.
but i dont have a bw turbo. my older ufi struggles a little bit down low and is fairly lazy below 2k
Mine was a dream to drive above 1500. Key word, was. Lol
I’m not sure I’ll run it back like it was on this silver top I’m putting it.
 

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I can’t read those graphs.. lol

I’d make a pre turbo jig first and ditch my pre manifold injection before I went to silly.
I had no clue about those compressor maps either until OldMav pointed me in the right direction with that simulator. Now I can pretty much answer most of my own crazy ideas and questions I have by inputting/adjusting all the different variables and seeing how everything gets affected for the better or worse. I'm still only scratching the surface with this stuff but I'm finding it all quite fascinating.

The pre turbo injection is exactly what's next on my on list of things to do. Having already gone the front mount option I'm a bit reluctant to rip it all out and go to the expense of installing a W2A system, even though I can see the benefits I'd be gaining. The much easier install and the cheap cost of a simple water injection system is just too hard for me to ignore. I've already got a 40L water tank in the back of the wagon which only ever gets used for washing sand off my feet so half of my install is already done and I'll then have the capacity to be injection at cruise boost levels and have all the associated benefits that come with it.
 

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From what i can gather is instead of using a heat exchanger for w2a water cooling. You simply use a res with an ac evaporator style element in it to cool the fluid. Use a good antifreeze coolant and it wont freeze unless well into the minus temps.
The actual air intake core is just a standard w2a core.
Yes that's it.
What I was referring to in regards to temperature control was more about using the w2a core as the evaporator and remove the coolant all together.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
i couldnt imagine that working overly well to be honest. the gas i wouldnt think would have the absorption abilities to remove that much heat so quickly.
even in normal ac operation where air speed is slower and volume far less. the gas will only pull down to between 4-10c.
 

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The interchiller works exactly like a water cooler temprite system. There is a few dynamics happening here to not overload the refrigerant system. Hence the water median to transfer the heat. Water is very good at absorbing and transferring heat quickly. I believe faster than a refrigerant gas can without expansion pressure issues.

You cannot use refrigerant gas as a median for this amount of heat absorption your head load pressures from the gas expansion would be through the roof rendering your compressor into overload heat and failure in minutes before you could get a acceptable temp differential. Then getting rid of that gas heat will require a huge heat exchange/condenser even if you could control differential temps causing head pressure issues. Water is best for this application due to its density and volume in the system and its ability to transfer heat easy without expansion issues. Gas on the other hand you just cannot get enough volume in the system to handle this amount of instant heat without head pressure which effect the small range the gas has to work efficiency. For example water is 440btu's/ lbs 100C to -4 Our refrigerant gas we use for A/C is i think at best 70btu's per pound for its effective temp drop range, So for my system with a bit more than 2 gallons or 20 lbs of water to handle this engines heat load at max boost, so to do the same range in this scenario for gas we need 5 times the gas liquid value so about 100pound of gas then you have to pump that gas fast enough to reduce head pressures with our little compressor lol. So you see its not possible to do this with gas hence why we will never see gas as a median for this type of system.

Water smooths out the temps loss for the gas so our heat transfer to the gas is done gradual as the water is pumped through the temprite fast so the gas has a chance to take small bits of heat within its range and capacity of the condenser without overpowering it and the system until it has a chance to equalise.

Its not meant to work full ball, we dont have our engine at full load condition all the time hence full heat load all the time. So the refrigerant has a chance to cool the water down and equalise the temps to probably -8 C maybe for our light load conditions. Then when we do happen to play or expose our W/A to max heat generation the water is a heat storage tank allowing the refrigerant to remove heat at its capacity and the evaporators ability without overloading the system. If you just had the gas the instant you exposed the gas in the cooler or evaporator to this about of instant heat capacity of our turbo the amount of gas possible in the evaporator at that time would instantly expand and generate a head pressure way past the seals on our compressor could handle blowing them out. even if you could actually control that the condenser has no where near the capacity to cool the gas quick enough to lower the expansion volume presented to it in that instant of super heated condition. Then the TX valve wouldn't work due to the super heated gas hitting it so would just full open letting the gas through to try and equalise pressures for zero cooling hence no liquid to absorb heat lol.

I really didn't want to try and explain how a refrigerant system works but just to say it cannot work on a huge heat system like we have, it work slow and steady as she goes the water is the median to help smooth out the heat dissipation issues because it works fast and stores the heat for the interchiller.

I dont know as yet as i haven't tried a interchiller. It may be an advantage to use the radiator with the interchiller to extend the capacity of the water by removing the heat down to close to ambient then the interchiller only has to deal with below ambient temps to extend the cooling ability of the interchiller on our 200rwkw engine.

I haven't done the math as yet as i haven't got the specs from interchiller or their temprite plate spec. Its just a big temprite but a largest commercial temprite i could find, i have looked at, they are way to small to handle what we have and the volume our AC compressor can pump. Yep i have done the math on the largest temprite i could find years ago
 

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Anyone ever just ghetto rigged an evaporator into tank and flowed the coolant thru it or rekon water wouldn't pass thru well enough?
 
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