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After recent events, is Trump a one term President

  • No

    Votes: 8 30.8%
  • Yes

    Votes: 18 69.2%
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The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
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Her manager must have been pushing hard ;), covid had sidelined her up until now, can't have that, can we????????????
Yep, got to keep her in the limelight no matter what, or she may become even more of an irrelevant "expert" than she already is.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Of course it doesn't matter to him that contracts have been signed and many US and World 'experts' say it couldn't happen anyway. Does this guy engage brain before opening mouth? obviously not. If this were to happen a lot of countries would drop off the list for future purchases.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
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After picking myself up off the floor, up-righting the office chair and cleaning up the coffee I spat all over the PC monitor I thought I would post this.

Quote:
Donald Trump has come up with a new excuse for the astonishing scale of his country’s coronavirus outbreak.

It’s not a good one.

“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? Because we do more testing,” Mr Trump told workers at a medical supply plant in Pennsylvania yesterday.

“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing we would have very few cases.

“They don’t want to write that. It’s just common sense.”

If we didn’t do any testing we would have very few cases.

This is a stupid statement. It is not “controversial” or “bizarre” or “unconventional”, or any of the other words we traditionally use to sanitise the absurd things that come out of Mr Trump’s mouth with such depressing regularity.

It is just pure, weapons-grade stupid.

It’s like saying that if you don’t use pregnancy tests, you’ll never have a baby. Or that if police stop investigating murders, the amount of crime will drop.

Donald Trump’s laughable virus excuse
 
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What was it Obama (not my favourite President BTW) said about the white house administration, 'a lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge'.
 

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Triton n Lovin it.
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The Googlest, Apparently!
nissan patrol
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As if this was never going to happen. :unsure: They want what they can't control, so that they can.


Foo
Yep, it was always going to happen.

I don't know why people are so upset about it. Hong Kong was only ever a lease by the Brits, they never owned it, so once the lease ended it would obviously go back to becoming part of the mainland entity that at the present time is the Communist party.

Still said, but it is China's sovereign right, just as much as well proclaim our sovereign right to our lands, as far as I am concerned.
 

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DB is spot on, this was always going to happen no matter what because it is and always was China (like Darwin Port will always be Australian), but having said that when many of the protestors turned into rioting vandals that destroyed buildings and business's they did themselves no favours.
 

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This is an amazing story, what I don't understand is he supposedly drove to his parents home while thinking his wife (and maybe himself) had covid 19, WTF, this would indicate the high value he has for his parents lives??? All on the pretext that there was no one in London to look after their son?? And this mans judgement is valued by BJ?

 

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Just watched Trump's press conference on nat security during riots, isn't it amazing how much sense he can make when he's reading from a prompter, didn't take questions, that would have ruined it with off the cuff comments, lol.
 

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nissan
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Hong Kong was only ever a lease by the Brits, they never owned it
That's not entirely true. As part of the peace settlement for the opium wars during the mid 1800s Hong Kong Island and the Kowloon peninsular were ceded to the UK. At this stage it became sovereign British territory, not leased but owned, similar to Gibraltar. The lease agreement did not happen until the end of the century when the current batch of British politicians agreed to lease the New Territories from China for 99 years under an agreement where the whole of Hong Kong would be returned to Chinese sovereignty at the end of the 99 year lease. It was a typical case of the British politicians doing what is best for themselves in the short term and bugger the long term consequences. To the Chinese it was a good deal because they always play the long game. They would get Hong Kong back without paying a cent and without firing a shot.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
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Sorry not buying that.

You are only talking about the island of Hong Kong, but the area was not just the island. It includes the Kowloon peninsular (new territories), The whole territory (including the island and the peninsula) was transferred to China in 1997 as a special administrative region.

As part of that handover agreement at the end of the lease period the Brits ceded Hong Kong back to China on the prevision that it was to be maintained as a separate governing and economic system from that of mainland China under a principle of "one country, two systems".

This is what I, and I think Ross in reply, were talking about when I mentioned that anyone who thought that the communist govt would maintain this after the lease ran out and not eventually swallow back into the fold were sadly mistaken.

It WAS only ever leased, so no one had any right to think that CPC would uphold the principle of "one country, two systems" ...
 

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Sorry not buying that.

You are only talking about the island of Hong Kong, but the area was not just the island. It includes the Kowloon peninsular (new territories), The whole territory (including the island and the peninsula) was transferred to China in 1997 as a special administrative region.

As part of that handover agreement at the end of the lease period the Brits ceded Hong Kong back to China on the prevision that it was to be maintained as a separate governing and economic system from that of mainland China under a principle of "one country, two systems".

This is what I, and I think Ross in reply, were talking about when I mentioned that anyone who thought that the communist govt would maintain this after the lease ran out and not eventually swallow back into the fold were sadly mistaken.

It WAS only ever leased, so no one had any right to think that CPC would uphold the principle of "one country, two systems" ...
True, the simple explanation, in 1898, the British under Queen Victoria brokered a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
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On June 9, 1898, the British under Queen Victoria brokered a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.

In 1984, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chinese Premier Zhao Ziyang negotiated the underlying plan for the lease to end, such that Hong Kong would remain a semi-autonomous region for a 50-year period after the lease ended.

The lease ended on July 1, 1997, and since then tensions between the democratically-minded Hong Kong population and the PRC have continued, although Hong Kong remains functionally separate from the Chinese mainland.

Until now. A full 27 years earlier than the agreement stipulated ...

Who would have thunk it !!!
 

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I was going to write "one should know the full scale of what is being discussed before sticking their nose into something they do not full comprehend and talking gibberish shyte".

But then I though, nah, it's overboard, be kind ... ;)

I must be getting mellow in my old age.
 

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nissan
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You are only talking about the island of Hong Kong, but the area was not just the island. It includes the Kowloon peninsular (new territories), The whole territory (including the island and the peninsula) was transferred to China in 1997 as a special administrative region.
The New Territories did not include the Kowloon Peninsular. The Island of Hong Kong was initially swiped by the British to be a naval base during the first opium war where Britain kicked China's arse. It became sovereign British territory during the peace settlement in 1842. The Kowloon peninsular became sovereign British territory as part of the peace settlement of the second opium war in 1860 where Britain again kicked China's arse. The lease for the New Territories was agreed to in 1898 when the New Territories were just mountains and farm land with almost no urban development which was pretty much confined to Hong Kong Island and Kowloon however Kowloon was fast running out of space.

It WAS only ever leased,
You need to do some reading. As I said, both Hong Kong Island and the Kowloon peninsular were sovereign British territory. The only area that was leased was the New Territories which did not include Kowloon and was basically farm land. The price the Chinese charged for the lease was the return of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon at the end of the lease.

The 50 year agreement reached by Margaret Thatcher in 1984 was that on its return Hong Kong would still be used as an international hub for finance and trade if it maintained democracy. Initially the Chinese were reluctant to be told about how they should govern their own sovereign territory and said that if the British did not hand it back as per the terms of the lease the Chinese could send in their army and take it back in a day. Margaret Thatcher agreed but said it would mean the economic collapse of Hong Kong. At the time the British economic and international political influence was strong enough to make good on the threat but that is no longer the case and Xi thinks that China's economic and political influence is now strong enough that Hong Kong will remain an international hub of finance and trade without the support of Britain and its political allies.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
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Fair enough, I have always lumped kowloon into the lease because it is only 47 sq kms and not viable on it’s own, just as the island is not viable on it’s own and nor is the island and peninsular together viable by itself.

The fact is Hong Kong City can't have the new territories without the Kowloon peninsular and you can't have Hong Kong Island with out the peninsula. The territories, the source of Hong Kong's power and water supplies, had become essential to Hong Kong's viability.

Ergo, there is no ‘City of Hong Kong’ without the whole enchilada, and viability of the city as a british possession all hinged on the lease and has done for a very long time.

Further to that, China had rejected the perpetual rights claim over the island and the peninsula in 1943, not as per your claim that the lease agreement of the previous century was conditional on its return, or they would not have had to bring that up in 1943. (so even back then the writing was on the wall)

Again, everything hinged on the lease. (see The Extraterritoriality Negotiations of 1943 and the New Territories)

The "New Territories" were leased to the United Kingdom for 99 years rent-free with no conditions, expiring on 30 June 1997.

And ceding territory only lasts as long as the sovereign power that did the ceding is around, and the Quing’s were dead and gone a long time and the brits knew it.

Again, it all hinged on the lease.

That was why the decision was made to return the whole City of Hong Kong (Hong Kong island, Kowloon and the New Territories) to China on 1 July 1997 with the 50 year stipulation of one country two systems.

As it all hinged on the lease.

And it had become obvious over the last decade and a half that that agreement would not last.

Sso the point still stands from my original post of ‘I don't know why people are so upset about it. Hong Kong was only ever a lease by the Brits, they never owned it, so once the lease ended it would obviously go back to becoming part of the mainland entity that at the present time is the Communist party.’

No lease, no Hong Kong.

Unless the brits wanted to start hauling in the vast amounts of water, food, coal, oil, construction equipment* etc to keep the place and its 6.5 million inhabitants going (construction equipment* to build new homes for the 4 million new territories inhabitants who would rush the island when china took it back, on an island and peninsular that did not have the land for it unless it mowed the very hilly peninsula flat)
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
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as an aside, the ceding of Kowloon was only for the southern edge (port area) of the Kowloon peninsular, most of the peninsular was under leased under the new territories lease. Hence, lumping the whole peninsular into the lease.

Straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Quote:
The question of Hong Kong is left over by history. Hong Kong, which includes Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, has been Chinese territory since ancient times. In l840, Britain provoked the Opium War and forced the Qing government to sign the Treaty of Nanjing in l842, formally ceding Hong Kong Island to the British. In l856, the British-French allied troops initiated the second Opium War. In l860, Britain forced the Qing government to sign the Treaty of Beijing, ceding the tip of the Kowloon Peninsula. In l898, taking advantage of western imperialist powers scrambling to carve up Chinese territory, Britain again forced the Qing government to sign the "Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory" that compelled China to lease to Britain the vast northern section of the Boundary Street of the Kowloon Peninsula, plus more than 200 nearby islands (later collectively known as the New territories). This 99-year lease would expire on June 30, l997. The Chinese people had consistently been opposed to the three unequal treaties mentioned above.

How did the Chinese Government settle the question of Hong Kong through negotiations?
 

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nissan
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The territories, the source of Hong Kong's power and water supplies, had become essential to Hong Kong's viability.

Ergo, there is no ‘City of Hong Kong’ without the whole enchilada, and viability of the city as a british possession all hinged on the lease and has done for a very long time.
No disagreement from me on that. I was just responding to your statement that it "was only ever leased" which is why I said that was "not entirely true."
Further to that, China had rejected the perpetual rights claim over the island and the peninsula in 1943, not as per your claim that the lease agreement of the previous century was conditional on its return, or they would not have had to bring that up in 1943. (so even back then the writing was on the wall)
Yes, but just because a new Chinese government says that "Hong Kong belongs to us" doesn't make it so when a previous government has ceded it away. Spain has actually done the same thing with Gibraltar and Sicily has done the same thing with the British territory there but in both cases the UK has said the valid agreement that was made still stands and they aren't about to leave.
And ceding territory only lasts as long as the sovereign power that did the ceding is around, and the Quing’s were dead and gone a long time and the brits knew it.
Sovereign borders world wide are things that have changed considerably over time, sometimes through diplomatic agreement but most often through military action. Once an area of land becomes the sovereign territory of a particular country the country that used to own it can't just say "we want it back" and expect to get it back because it has become part of the other country. Imagine Russia telling the US that they want Alaska back.
Again, everything hinged on the lease. (see The Extraterritoriality Negotiations of 1943 and the New Territories)
Fair enough about the return of Hong Kong Island, I thought that was part of the 1898 agreement
Again, it all hinged on the lease.
As it all hinged on the lease.
No lease, no Hong Kong.
No disagreement from me on any of that, I was just pointing out it wasn't all just leased.
Hong Kong was only ever a lease by the Brits, they never owned it,
You are bending the truth there. The Brits owned the most important parts of it. It's true that those parts were probably not viable on their own but it doesn't change the fact they were British territory.

I agree that nobody should be surprised that China is acting the way it is. Hong Kong in its entirety became Chinese territory in 1997 and the UK had no real control over anything that went on there after that time.
 

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I think Xi has his own problems within China at the moment with the coronavirus recession and is doing what national leaders often do when there is some internal discontent by showing some aggressive strength towards an external party. He needs to be careful though because in recent years there was a bit of a movement within Taiwan towards closer unity with China and the Taiwanese are watching Hong Kong very carefully.
 

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The Googlest, Apparently!
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No disagreement from me on that. I was just responding to your statement that it "was only ever leased" which is why I said that was "not entirely true."

Yes, but just because a new Chinese government says that "Hong Kong belongs to us" doesn't make it so when a previous government has ceded it away. Spain has actually done the same thing with Gibraltar and Sicily has done the same thing with the British territory there but in both cases the UK has said the valid agreement that was made still stands and they aren't about to leave.

Gibraltar and Sicily were never in the same boat as HK. With china one was an imperial dynasty and the other was a communist revolution...


Sovereign borders world wide are things that have changed considerably over time, sometimes through diplomatic agreement but most often through military action. Once an area of land becomes the sovereign territory of a particular country the country that used to own it can't just say "we want it back" and expect to get it back because it has become part of the other country. Imagine Russia telling the US that they want Alaska back.

Fair enough about the return of Hong Kong Island, I thought that was part of the 1898 agreement

And it wasn't.

No disagreement from me on any of that, I was just pointing out it wasn't all just leased.

Near as dammit, it was only old Kowloon town that was ceded and even today you can walk around that area in about 15mins despite the crowds and hustle and bustle.

I have quite a bit of history with Hong Kong, been there over 30 times and had to work and live in apartments and offices on either side of Boundary Street due to geopolitical issues (Brit / China and Vietnam / China) To only give back the new territories you would have to cleave HK city down the middle, so there would be no HK city if the brits could keep the ceded parts. It had to be one or the other...


You are bending the truth there. The Brits owned the most important parts of it. It's true that those parts were probably not viable on their own but it doesn't change the fact they were British territory.

No I am not. See above boundary street, it is in the MIDDLE of the city. HK as a city is not, and never was, viable as a brit entity without the new territories even if brit part had its own agri resources, water and power simply because a big chunk of HK city is IN the new territories ...

I agree that nobody should be surprised that China is acting the way it is. Hong Kong in its entirety became Chinese territory in 1997 and the UK had no real control over anything that went on there after that time.

And that is what I said.
 
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