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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After doing a search on Left foot braking i found two techniques mentioned.

One - Constant throttle, vary the brakes.
Two - Constant brakes, vary the throttle, (drive through the brakes).

In addition partial application of the hand brake was mentioned as beneficial in both cases.

Which is the right way to go or is both an option?

The reason I ask is, I've pointed the Patrol down some fairly hairy descents recently and have used a mixture of the above (read winged it, with wife panicking, but no disasters). I can recommend a few clicks on the hand break, if yours is tail shaft mounted, but would love some experienced advice on proper left foot braking technique.


Cheers,

Grogey
 

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There's a trick with autos when going fowards down steep hills, put it in reverse and allow the torque convertor hold you back. The more throttle you use the slower you will go within reason and you can use the hand throttle to maintain speed better.
 

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Enemy of Reality
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Beware... the above will kill your auto pretty quick if you'e dong it all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There's a trick with autos when going fowards down steep hills, put it in reverse and allow the torque convertor hold you back. The more throttle you use the slower you will go within reason and you can use the hand throttle to maintain speed better.
Two questions about that:

1/ Won't the torque converter lock up in reverse and s h 1 t it's self, especially as it spins up in Low range?
2/ I don't have a hand throttle, does any GU model have one?

I have considered fitting a cable hand throttle to the throttle pedal purely for off road use but have never done so because it might void my insurance if it was discovered in the event of an accident, but thats for another thread.
 

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Up to you whether you try it or not, there will always be the naysayers. I have read about people using this technique on this forum with success and no dead auto. I do not have an auto so I have not tested this. I find a few clicks of hand brake helps mine as braking is distributed evenly and at a constant pressure were as your foot brake gives too much variation.
 

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I've found with mine constant throttle at about 1000-1100rpm just enough to keep drive to wheels and to stop one locking works well.
 

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Out the back of Blayney (NSW) there is a descent down a ridge about 100m long in the middle of Neville State forest that is covered in shale and bloody steep, not sure of gradient but suffice to say the first time you look at it from the top down you need to change your undies. My brother in law got out and walked down the first time he came with me.

Have not done it in the Patrol, but many, many times in a manual HiLux and an Auto Cherokee. Touching the brakes may lead to disaster on shale so I would use as a last resort and actually never had to.

The Hilux was a doddle. For the jeep I would lock in 1st, take feet well away from all pedals and just amble down with the hairs on the back of our neck standing too attention.

As for going up exactly the same principle except I would start and hold 2nd @ 2500 and claw up.
 

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I have an auto and done a few nasty but clenching decents and some with the camper trailer in tow.

Have usually used the shift locked in first gear (which I think locks the TC? or feels like it anyway) , low range, put the airconditioner on gives it a tiny bit more resistance. Foot off the accelerator untill I need it for some strreing if the front wheels slip (which has happened a few times). Wife often gets out and walks or climbs down the hill (saying "I told you not to go this way").

And yes I would rather use my foot brakes as they have better cooling and I feel it has better feeling of control than the handbrake. I do uderstand the thing about one grabbing then your stuffed and the handbrake having even distribution but you simply cant have a spare hand off the wheel to control it properly. The foot brake has a lot better control being abe to increase and decrease pressure to rest or allow it to roll more when on a slightly flat (less steep bit) and getting some cooling of the brakes. I have had to stop, put the hand brake on and let the brakes (and me) rest to cool off a bit.

I have tried the handbrake on a few clicks, but it is only a small brake drum and heats up bloody quick. After that It would not hold the car on a slight hill and needed adjusting (probably burnt and glazed the pads and drum a bit).

With the camper trailer, I have a manual control on the electric brakes so have been able to ride the trailer brakes and keep it pulling the back of the car straight. I have once had to winch the trailer down a slope with a snatch block to a tree behind it. Was not an easy thing to do. Also had to winch it back out the next day when we could not get out further ahead (got the same help from the wife "I told you not to go this way").

 

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Used all the above techniques and each has different merits.

Tranny in Reverse -
The best and smoothest retardation is putting the Tranny in Reverse BUT only on very short descents once in a blue moon as it has two BIG drawbacks.
One, the gearbox temps skyrocket as the TC is generating poopoo loads of heat (essentially it is no different to doing the same in a manual and riding the clutch... the clutch is gunna hate you quicktime)
Two, you totally lose any throttle steering control for manouvering as you are now in reverse and trust me you won't get that tranny into a forward gear quick enough if you need it but as I said very good for short, very steep technically simple descents.

Driving thru the brakes
Works well if you are a left foot braker or can drive a forklift. Biggest plus is still gives you total control of the vehicle and two hands for the wheel. Only downside is you can get a single wheel lockup if the diff is open a quick brake modulation fixes that if you have the guts

Driving thru the handbrake (best choice if you are uncomfortabel with left foot braking)
Same as driving thru the foot brake in retardation but has an advantage of distributing the effort equally and the disadvantages of needing one hand for the handbrake to modulate the effort and also as Geordie says the drum heats up quite quickly.
People are often suprised how much feel you have back thru the Handbrake actually so many people do prefer that method.
 

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Used all the above techniques and each has different merits.

Tranny in Reverse -
The best and smoothest retardation is putting the Tranny in Reverse BUT only on very short descents once in a blue moon as it has two BIG drawbacks.
One, the gearbox temps skyrocket as the TC is generating poopoo loads of heat (essentially it is no different to doing the same in a manual and riding the clutch... the clutch is gunna hate you quicktime)
Two, you totally lose any throttle steering control for manouvering as you are now in reverse and trust me you won't get that tranny into a forward gear quick enough if you need it but as I said very good for short, very steep technically simple descents.

Driving thru the brakes
Works well if you are a left foot braker or can drive a forklift. Biggest plus is still gives you total control of the vehicle and two hands for the wheel. Only downside is you can get a single wheel lockup if the diff is open a quick brake modulation fixes that if you have the guts

Driving thru the handbrake (best choice if you are uncomfortabel with left foot braking)
Same as driving thru the foot brake in retardation but has an advantage of distributing the effort equally and the disadvantages of needing one hand for the handbrake to modulate the effort and also as Geordie says the drum heats up quite quickly.
People are often suprised how much feel you have back thru the Handbrake actually so many people do prefer that method.
Driving through the brakes is my preferred method as l was a forklift driver, so l am very much used to it.
 

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Still don't understand why people are scared of automatics going down hills and why people insist on the vehicle maintaining an idle speed in first gear to decend? Most of the time this is too fast if the hill is that steep or gnarly anyway.

When the hill is greasy mud and its steep enough that gravity will win there is no point even having low gears you may as well be in high range. just go for it and stay in the ruts or lower the vehicle down by winch or using another vehicle (use common sense obviously).

This hill here for example, if you were going down it you'd have very few choices but to hope you slide into the ruts.
 

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The last thing I'd want if I was going down a steep slimy hill and the arse end starts to come around, is the car in reverse. Apart from the possibility of a $4000 repair bill.

Driving thru brakes works well, its also what they train you on when you do a driver training course.



YMMV
 

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The last thing I'd want if I was going down a steep slimy hill and the arse end starts to come around, is the car in reverse. Apart from the possibility of a $4000 repair bill.

Driving thru brakes works well, its also what they train you on when you do a driver training course.



YMMV
Agree totally... we have a local Hill over here called "Puckerup Hill" (the name is a bit of an in joke unless one is aware that ever second hill, town, hamlet and intersection over here ends in "up"... anyway... Won't get into the geography to much 'cept it has an off camber hook 2/3rds down which points you over a cliff into the creek if you have the slightest understeer.

The surface is rock hard clay so only miniscule ruts to help if any at all.

In the dry no worries... but if its wet... you can get a sphincter "pucker" of such a magnitude in an Auto that the bystanders can see the seat covers in the throats of the screaming vehicle occupants who end up ****tin' cloth for a week... absolutely priceless.
 

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Agree totally... we have a local Hill over here called "Puckerup Hill" (the name is a bit of an in joke unless one is aware that ever second hill, town, hamlet and intersection over here ends in "up"... anyway... Won't get into the geography to much 'cept it has an off camber hook 2/3rds down which points you over a cliff into the creek if you have the slightest understeer.

The surface is rock hard clay so only miniscule ruts to help if any at all.

In the dry no worries... but if its wet... you can get a sphincter "pucker" of such a magnitude in an Auto that the bystanders can see the seat covers in the throats of the screaming vehicle occupants who end up ****tin' cloth for a week... absolutely priceless.
the auto drivers need to HFTU and learn to drive their vehicles if thats the case.
 

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Used all the above techniques and each has different merits.

Tranny in Reverse -
The best and smoothest retardation is putting the Tranny in Reverse BUT only on very short descents once in a blue moon as it has two BIG drawbacks.
One, the gearbox temps skyrocket as the TC is generating poopoo loads of heat (essentially it is no different to doing the same in a manual and riding the clutch... the clutch is gunna hate you quicktime)
Two, you totally lose any throttle steering control for manouvering as you are now in reverse and trust me you won't get that tranny into a forward gear quick enough if you need it but as I said very good for short, very steep technically simple descents.

Driving thru the brakes
Works well if you are a left foot braker or can drive a forklift. Biggest plus is still gives you total control of the vehicle and two hands for the wheel. Only downside is you can get a single wheel lockup if the diff is open a quick brake modulation fixes that if you have the guts

Driving thru the handbrake (best choice if you are uncomfortabel with left foot braking)
Same as driving thru the foot brake in retardation but has an advantage of distributing the effort equally and the disadvantages of needing one hand for the handbrake to modulate the effort and also as Geordie says the drum heats up quite quickly.
People are often suprised how much feel you have back thru the Handbrake actually so many people do prefer that method.
Agree with all this ^, but, even though it obviously works, i like my auto way too much to be doing the '''reverse thing"
 

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the auto drivers need to HFTU and learn to drive their vehicles if thats the case.
It's called "Shock Therapy" Yom.

One dose of a "Wet Puckerup Descent" is a fantastic motivator to do just that... plus everyone else gets to crack up laughing.
 

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Did a few very steep decents on a variety of grass and loose dirt with the low range in 1st...not sure why people think this is too fast, mine was barely moving and almost too slow. No brakes needed at all...
 

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When I did the advanced driving course last year they also showed us the "Go downhill in reverse method". As others have said works well for short steep sections but not good for prolonged periods of time. One other thing they said was to do it in H4 and not L4.

I prefer the driving through brakes method. Takes a little prectice to get right but works a treat.

Got reduction gears now so hardly have to drive through the brakes unless really steep or dropping off ledges.

---Bushy67---
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Did a few very steep decents on a variety of grass and loose dirt with the low range in 1st...not sure why people think this is too fast, mine was barely moving and almost too slow. No brakes needed at all...
Fair enough even in an auto.

What i am talking about is steep decents over washouts, ruts, rocks and ledges with no run off area and sharp turns, with your seat belt keeping you off the dash board.This is where too much speed will end in damage. Say 2kph for a controlled decent. This slow stuff up and down hill is my favourite kind of 4wding.

Grogey
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
.........................

Got reduction gears now so hardly have to drive through the brakes unless really steep or dropping off ledges.

---Bushy67---
How low did you go?
 
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