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Discussion Starter #1
Was just thinking, with alot of people with lifted patrols using drop boxes. Why hasn't anyone made the radius arm longer and mounted it further back?

Would be alot less angle on the arm, with my understanding of things would provide better down pressure. Like the rear long arms. Less angle on drive train also.

Longer arm, meaning less angle on the arm, meaning more travel before the bushes bind even with them in the original position at diff.

Thinking about having a go at this when i lift mine, just to be different. Satisfaction of doing it myself.

Anyone tried it? Any reasons why it shouldn't be done?

Main reasons i can see would be clearence, the arm would have to angle down to an extent to clear chassis on up travel.
 

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BORDERTREK 4X4 & FABRICATION
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I've looked at this too as off road baja style racers use super long arms in their racing buggies.
Longer front arms would definitely be an advantage for the reasons you mentioned as well as better lineal compression and extension of the coils. It would definitely improve flex too as there'd be less binding in all the bushes but the arms would hit the chassis near the sway bar link mounts on up travel when flexing, unless the rear of the arms were positioned way out further from the chassis, which would require substantial bracing etc. Then you've got the problem of tyres hitting them when turning.
You also need some pretty strong arms because of the extra length.
It'd work well but a lot of work would need to be done to make it work reliably.
 

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A friend of mine made some arms for a custom hilux. He used 38mm heavy wall cold drawn seamless 3140 and plate and they still cracked.
If you do make them they would need to be immensely strong. Getting the arms laser cut from thick plate would be the go, like the superior engineering superflex arms.
also they may need a bend in them to go around the chassis, and have the rear mounts further outward than the originals. the body mounts could cause problems too.

I like the way you're thinking though.
 

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BORDERTREK 4X4 & FABRICATION
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A friend of mine made some arms for a custom hilux. He used 38mm heavy wall cold drawn seamless 3140 and plate and they still cracked.
If you do make them they would need to be immensely strong. Getting the arms laser cut from thick plate would be the go, like the superior engineering superflex arms.
also they may need a bend in them to go around the chassis, and have the rear mounts further outward than the originals. the body mounts could cause problems too.

I like the way you're thinking though.
I looked at making some with a bend too but the problem is that once you put a dog leg bend in them they are slighlty weakened and easily bent further when hitting a rock or mound too hard at the initial bends because they now have a leverage point in them. The outside of the bend could be braced though but I still think there'd be a tyre scrubbing issue on the brace. I Beam arms would be the go.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Even though bringing the mounting point back further on the chassis would bring the arm closer the sway mount, it would have to be alot of up travel to actually come in contact with it. I dont use a front sway bar anyways and those brackets can be unbolted.
The arm being bolted on the under side of chassis in a drop box style mount just further back with a 80 serries style bush.
Gearbox cross member could be an issue depending how much longer the arm is as the would also be running under the cross member pushing it down further again. Maybe a custom made cross member would also be needed.
The arm cut from 32mm plate would be pretty solid.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
A friend of mine made some arms for a custom hilux. He used 38mm heavy wall cold drawn seamless 3140 and plate and they still cracked.
If you do make them they would need to be immensely strong. Getting the arms laser cut from thick plate would be the go, like the superior engineering superflex arms.
also they may need a bend in them to go around the chassis, and have the rear mounts further outward than the originals. the body mounts could cause problems too.

I like the way you're thinking though.
The arms for the hilux, were they Y arms? Similar to jeep ones?
 

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Im looking at doing the same to mine rather than buying super flex arms or simlar,

ive been looking at a lot of yanky sas swaps and long arm kits and this style of arm seems to be the go so im going to sus out the patrol frame rails and see if its possible to run something simlar

not the best pictures but its the best i could do with a quick google search at lunch

cheers sean
 

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Discussion Starter #8
They are the Y arms that have a tendency to crack the welds from what i've read. Commen im jeep, hilux etc. I think the patrols are too heavy for that style of arm. Its a shame because they work very well,
 

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You would think if they are built from the right grade of material and welded properly, there shouldnt be an issue, i probably would use dom tubing, maybe something a bit more high tech than that

I guess if it could be done with out much mods to the car itself it wouldnt hurt to have a crack, at least if it goes pear shaped you can swap back to the original arms
 

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The arms for the hilux, were they Y arms? Similar to jeep ones?
it was a copy of a patrol setup, flexible bushes in front of and behind a beam axle. It was extremely wide as well, almost 8 feet to the outside of the tyres.
where the curved tube from the front mount joined the main arm it cracked the tube.
from memory it was made from one straight tube and one tube with approx 60 degree bend with a long skinny triangle of plate between them.
It was only 2wd but the braking and flexing was enough to fatigue the tube and snap the arms. Moral of the story is if its deisgned to flex dont over-brace half of it. Same reason the ute chassis always snap in half, rigid tray holds the back of the chassis stiff, concentrating all of the flex at one point. trays should be on flexible mounts for rough use.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
it was a copy of a patrol setup, flexible bushes in front of and behind a beam axle. It was extremely wide as well, almost 8 feet to the outside of the tyres.
where the curved tube from the front mount joined the main arm it cracked the tube.
from memory it was made from one straight tube and one tube with approx 60 degree bend with a long skinny triangle of plate between them.
It was only 2wd but the braking and flexing was enough to fatigue the tube and snap the arms. Moral of the story is if its deisgned to flex dont over-brace half of it. Same reason the ute chassis always snap in half, rigid tray holds the back of the chassis stiff, concentrating all of the flex at one point. trays should be on flexible mounts for rough use.
I see, kinda reminds me of F.A.T radius arms. I think they had a similar problem and made the hollow bar heavier. Not sure what happened after that never followed it. Pretty sure that area of the arm is the most stressed point, so not a good area for welding.
Anyone correct me if im wrong by the way, only going off waht info i've found along the way.

Im going to start looking at how to mount the arm at the chassis, think that would be the biggest issue.
Something similar to this worked into the gear box cross member maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Well been quite some time but ive continued on playing around with this idea for the GU ive now bought.
Confident it will improve flex quite a bit just going to have to do some testing and see how it handles, only way to really find out. Looking forward to it..

Will post pics as soon as i get it all set up working:cool:
 

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Another member is starting to make longer arms also, early days still.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sure is. Don't know u less you try. Not trying to sell them for profit or anything just like making my own parts.
 

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Its a great idea Grm, I hope it works.

Please post some flex pics when your at that stage.
 

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Well been quite some time but ive continued on playing around with this idea for the GU ive now bought.
Here is a bit of a preview of where my proto type is at. Confident it will improve flex quite a bit just going to have to do some testing and see how it handles, only way to really find out. Looking forward to it..
Whats the bolt spacing on the bushes on the diff end of the arm? They must hang low under the diff.

Me and a mate are designing some arms that should work well at speed and also flex. Ours will be a drop box arm with 80" bush at the rear and 300mm longer than standard. We are also pushing the diff forward 15mm. Our bolt spacing on the diff end will be the same as a cruiser. We are incorporating a custom gearbox crossmember/bash plate to bolt to the drop boxs. We have designed ours to go around (over and under) the tierod.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Think i seen the thread you had up outlaw565 that seems to have disapered?
 

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Think i seen the thread you had up outlaw565 that seems to have disapered?

Yes i had it taken down as there was a well known company disputing (with their lawyers) what we were doing. Thanks to that company we have now redesigned the arms into a much better item.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I actually mentioned similar scenario when i posted on the thread. Seems before 4wing took off and started appealing to more and more people the veterans of of the sport could discuss whatever they like, make whatever idea's they come up with but now its all about money.
I think for now i won't be posting any pics up because someone might find a way to patent an idea and sue me..
The front bushes are 150mm apart and the arm is 150mm longer. I may also put another link on the top side of the arm/diff as you probably know this set up may put too much stress on the bushes at the diff. Which might make it too rigid. Find out when i start testing it out.
 
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