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it is also difficult for me to fully understand your thoughts, English is not my native language and I can only trust the translator, I can’t understand how you just change the MAF and MAP values to remove the limp, I don’t understand, we have already been able to completely disable the EGR, Immobilizer, correct some boost peaks , but we cannot find the card in the control unit that is responsible for turning off the fuel, it pisses me off (
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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Discussion Starter · #142 · (Edited)
Hi Nikolai,

I guess you mean data position in the 'EPROM memory' to suppress 'MAF limp' ?
I am not sure Patrol tuners would be happy for anyone to disclose this information here. Try specialized tuning sites on the net. I just did a quick search, and found several, like this one for the Navara ZD30 :
Be aware this is an EXAMPLE of what can be found. Navara is different from our Patrol.

MAP voltage is not the main issue for limp on our Patrols. but MAF voltage vs RPM definitely is.
As said above, if the remap available in your country does not suppress limp, and you can't find how to do this by yourself, you need to have an electronic device doing the proper control for you, only if and when necessary. It is one of the several Magic Box functionalities.

At the moment, modifying the fuel maps to increase the quantity of fuel (and advance timing) and then reducing your MAF voltage to suppress the limps you have created is like "doing" and then "undoing" as reducing the MAF voltage will just reduce the fueling you have just increased. I don't really see the point.
 

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for me the main question is how to prevent the control unit from turning off the fuel near 4 volts on the mafe for 10 seconds, I have about 3.8 volts, this is the main problem, we install M57 engines from bmw and can put more powerful turbines and efficient nozzles there and nothing prevents you from removing 250 l\s from motors D1
With a unichip its easy. You have a voltage clamp you can apply at any RPM increment. Can be a 2d or 3d based clamping model.
You prevent the ecu from seeing higher than 3.8V or what ever you desire it to see.You also have direct control over the spill valve in the pump via the canbus network from ecu to pump to tell the fuel pump what to do regardless of Afm/tps voltages.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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Discussion Starter · #144 · (Edited)
the issue with clamping MAF voltage straight against RPM is that you don’t take benefit of the few seconds delay allowed by the ÉCM before it enters limp (4 seconds). during that time, and in 1,2,3 rd gear in particular, you would still get full power as allowed by your fueling tables. And you will never see this power if you just “clamp”.

A good question around the same line(s) for anyone interested by their “lost” HP is why hardly any of the dyno’ed 3.0 Di Patrols prior to being “tuned” (but often already fitted with valves) never show the 158 HP “sold” by Nissan.
and sometimes far from.
 

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the issue with clamping MAF voltage straight against RPM is that you don’t take benefit of the few seconds delay allowed by the ÉCM before it enters limp (4 seconds). during that time, and in 1,2,3 rd gear in particular, you would still get full power as allowed by your fueling tables. And you will never see this power if you just “clamp”.

A good question around the same line(s) for anyone interested by their “lost” HP is why hardly any of the dyno’ed 3.0 Di Patrols prior to being “tuned” (but often already fitted with valves) never show the 158 HP “sold” by Nissan.
and sometimes far from.
There is no lost HP. the unichip is already driving the fuel pump independently of what the ecu is doing.

And the reason the dyno will never show the engines rated power is because it is power at the flywheel. Often without accessories being driven.
This includes, water pump, power steering, air con, vacuum.
Generally in a temperature and pressure-controlled environment that is probably 'ideal conditions'

Once all the auxilary components of the engine are driven, then put through a big heavy gearbox, tailshaft, diff, axles then big chunky rims and tyres. It sucks at a bare minimum 35% off the engines rated power + 8-10kw if the air con is engaged on the power run.
 

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There is no lost HP. the unichip is already driving the fuel pump independently of what the ecu is doing.

And the reason the dyno will never show the engines rated power is because it is power at the flywheel. Often without accessories being driven.
This includes, water pump, power steering, air con, vacuum.
Generally in a temperature and pressure-controlled environment that is probably 'ideal conditions'

Once all the auxilary components of the engine are driven, then put through a big heavy gearbox, tailshaft, diff, axles then big chunky rims and tyres. It sucks at a bare minimum 35% off the engines rated power + 8-10kw if the air con is engaged on the power run.
What??? thought it was all those waste of money big intakes turbos and Tillix valves taking power out from the quoted figure???

/Sarc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #147 ·
ah ah ah
it looks like you still haven’t understood how a VN turbo works. funny man you are.
I can’t do anything for you.
keep on doing what you do. and be happy.
 

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ah ah ah
it looks like you still haven’t understood how a VN turbo works. funny man you are.
I can’t do anything for you.
keep on doing what you do. and be happy.
It would be wise to be working with people like DT but all you want to do is discredit someone else's work to sell your own product.

Why no offer to send him one for testing? Put the argument to bed once and for all?

He and many others are interested in standalone VNT control.

As for me, my VN is controlled by a vacuum solenoid. It does work well and I enjoy it every time I drive the vehicle and cost me nothing extra with the remap.

I may try an alternative VNT controller when one comes out. Hopefully DT has something soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
My objective from day one has never been to discredit, nor to sell, but to explain and demonstrate how a VNT had to be managed to provide the maximum of air with the maximum efficiency when needed. I now understand a bit better why I bumped into so much resistance from what was "established".

As I said to you above, if you are happy, stay with what you have. None of the Magic box owners will never go back to what they used to run, no matter what yourself or others who don't have one will say.

if some people work on "alternative VNT controllers", it could well mean that what has been available until MB was not that perfect and was showing a few shortfalls. Glad to hear that. It is just what I have been trying to say for two years.
Good luck to them, as I know what they are (or will be) going through.
 

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Hi Phil
I am from Slovakia and I was interested in your product Magic Box.I have Nissan Patrol ZD30 Di 2003.I have bigger wheels on the car (33inch for road and 35inch for offroad), 3inch lift kit and plus extra weight (winch, protection frame,protection steps). I have turbo pressure gauge and EGT gauge in the cabin.
The engine underwent an overhaul last year plus new turbo and injectors new MAF sensor and bigger intercooler also I have catch can oil, blocked EGR valve and uninstalled resonator box in air flow intake and I using K&N filter in the original filter box plus I have safari snorkel.
In the future I want to install lift pump
which I have bought.
I am currently using to control the turbo gfb d-boost v2 vnt, plus one needle for permanent support but I'm not very happy with that, it's better than the original turbo control but there are still situations where the mechanical control is not good.Sometimes a large peak and sudden drop in boost pressure when shifting up, and weak thrust after shifting from third to fourth gear when speeds are below 2000 rpm. after reading your posts, I think that with your equipment I would be able to eliminate my problems and gain absolute control on turbo.
therefore, I want to ask if it is possible to buy your product?

Best regart Andrej
 

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Hello, after installing a manual boost controller I ended up being dissapointed in the results, somewhat sluggish at lower rpm and boost pressure stays too high at 100km/h+. I could go down the route of multiple needles but his seems like a much more concise and thought out solution, it's quite exciting. I'd love to add one to my patrol - do you have a website to purchase one? Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #154 ·
I am not surprised.
with valves, you can never stay at mid aperture where the turbo is most efficient. Vanes are always either too open, or too closed.
I will send you a PM asap.
 

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Hi @Phdv61 , Have spent the last two weeks reading and re reading your posts from the thread of "Dawes and 2 needles" years ago. Makes so much sense after the penny finally dropped - I was about to buy more needle valves and start tuning my vnt control and then I found this thread! So thankful you followed this through. I don't have the capacity to invent an electronic controller that you did, but would love to spend time tuning and tinkering with your MB. A solution I can work with and continue to learn. Please PM me for details on how to purchase. 2005 Di

Regards,
Dustin
 

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Just thought i'd give and update on my experience with the magic box and @Phdv61

After a manual boost controller was installed by my tuner to fix a boost surging issue i found that my patrol was an absolute slug to drive around town at 1.5k - 3.5k RPM, so much so that i completely reverted the manual boost controller and let the ECU control the turbo and dealt with the boost surge. This is when i searched the internet for a better solution, what i found was the Magic Box. This seemed to answer all of my questions and was a perfect solution for what i was looking for!

Phil, the creator of the magic box, was very helpful and responsive during the entire process of purchase, delivery, install and after care support for setting up my cars turbo map.

As others have said, there's a large learning curve when deciding to install the Magic Box. Before installing this i had very little experience soldering electronics and didn't know much at all about 12v systems, sensors, ECUs or even turbos but i was happy to learn. The manual which Phil provides is quite extensive and goes over a lot of information. Any questions I had were happily answered.

Once the Magic Box was installed i was immediately impressed with how much more responsive the car was, even on my first run with a sub-optimal turbo mapping. The torque down low at ~1.5k - 2.5k has gone up considerably in comparison to the ECU and when compared to the manual boost controller...it's seriously a night and day difference. The boost surging issue i was having is completely gone.

Hats off to Phil for spending so much time developing something like this. There's nothing else i found on the market quite like it and it solves so many issues people run into when trying to control a VNT turbo on a modified vehicle.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Just thought i'd give and update on my experience with the magic box and @Phdv61

After a manual boost controller was installed by my tuner to fix a boost surging issue i found that my patrol was an absolute slug to drive around town at 1.5k - 3.5k RPM, so much so that i completely reverted the manual boost controller and let the ECU control the turbo and dealt with the boost surge. This is when i searched the internet for a better solution, what i found was the Magic Box. This seemed to answer all of my questions and was a perfect solution for what i was looking for!

Phil, the creator of the magic box, was very helpful and responsive during the entire process of purchase, delivery, install and after care support for setting up my cars turbo map.

As others have said, there's a large learning curve when deciding to install the Magic Box. Before installing this i had very little experience soldering electronics and didn't know much at all about 12v systems, sensors, ECUs or even turbos but i was happy to learn. The manual which Phil provides is quite extensive and goes over a lot of information. Any questions I had were happily answered.

Once the Magic Box was installed i was immediately impressed with how much more responsive the car was, even on my first run with a sub-optimal turbo mapping. The torque down low at ~1.5k - 2.5k has gone up considerably in comparison to the ECU and when compared to the manual boost controller...it's seriously a night and day difference. The boost surging issue i was having is completely gone.

Hats off to Phil for spending so much time developing something like this. There's nothing else i found on the market quite like it and it solves so many issues people run into when trying to control a VNT turbo on a modified vehicle.
Wow! That tuner must have done a really crap job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 ·
Or ... the Magic Box does its VNT management perfectly well, and much better than any other valve or "electronic" system which are more than "approximative" and NEVER position the vanes where they have to be for the best turbo efficiency.

Sad, very sad.

I am now working with Rich on his Eclipse + remap. First feedback is "waow".

I haven't met any owner who is not extatic about MB and the gamer changer it has been for them.

I have serious doubts that ALL these guys be wrong. They were just mis-informed and mis-led.
And I am happy to make these people happy despite what you may think or say.
 
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