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nissan patrol
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The laws need to change. When we have proof that extremists are preaching to harm OZ then lock em up and throw away the key. How we allow these ar$e holes to brain wash kids to do their bidding while they do not have the balls themselves is beyond me.
 

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nissan
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Agreed with Patrol Dude, Time for our law makers (and upholders) to start making examples of these people and demonstrate that this will NOT be tolerated.
You come to Australia, you accept our way of life and leave all of this bull**** where you came from.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Ed Zackery, we bowed to political correctness and allowed too much scope for them, they really are the new ambulance chasers, lining up to represent "the downtrodden" refugees. Between them and the press what chance do we have?

What do you call a busload of Civil Libertarian Lawyers driving off a cliff road? a bloody good start.

Guy's like Terry O'Gorman really piss me off with "some" of their statements. I keep asking the question about how much are we willing to give up to ensure our safety, people seem to believe we don't need to give up anything, I think that is a little naive.

Does the old Blackstone standard "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer" still apply? I saw an interview with a Muslim guy recently who said there are 10 guy's in Sydney at the moment who are capable of doing what this last sicko did, are we willing to to keep passing laws and make judgements that let them stay on the outside for fear of breaking Blackstones ratio, this is the question we need to ask ourselves and civil libertarians need to explain their intent. This last guy was poorly organised, what if the next guy isn't, it could be 200 not 2.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Sorry, don't believe it, they probably know more about you and I than we know about each other, with electronic flags the way they are this just defies logic.
 

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nissan
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A curious thought just entered my mind after reading Dronus' link. At what point in time during the Martin Place incident did the police (or whoever) find out who the hostage taker was and about his violent history?

If it was at any point prior to the moment they stormed the building, the call to take him out with a shot from outside should have been ordered IMO.
People do not change much, if at all. If someone has numerous violent offences in the past, and is now holding a room full of innocent people hostage, to me there is no question as to how it's going to end. Hesitation can cost lives, and in this instance did, I feel.
 

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nissan patrol GQ
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the concern was about establishing whether he had explosives in his backpack and a deadmans switch

the entire channel 7 complex was put on bomb alert as it basically is a glass building (frontage)

they couldn't risk setting off explosives
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Ed Zackery, the other considerations are angles, old building glass thickness, etc, etc, a lot of variables, this is not hollywood. With the way the Police have been targeted (rightly or wrongly) by the press and civil libertarians for recent anti terror raids and shootings, they were basically damned if they did and damned if they didn't, there was a Commander of the group on the ground the whole time and he made the calls to the best of his ability on the information available at that time, these guy's were working second by second and had to be ready on that second, which they proved beyond doubt that they were, I have nothing but the utmost respect for what they did and how they handled themselves.

It has been hypothesised that maybe he was targeting Ch7, which would have made more sense if you're after publicity, but the level of security put him off. This may explain the amount of pacing he did on the street outside just before.
 

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nissan patrol GQ
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It has been hypothesised that maybe he was targeting Ch7, which would have made more sense if you're after publicity, but the level of security put him off. This may explain the amount of pacing he did on the street outside just before.
iirc it was the video in post one (and some others) done by 7 which fired him up

cref earlier comments

there was a very strong view that the assaulter (first guy in for the breaching team) was heading into a room with a guy about to set off his backpack
 

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I watched basically the whole episode live and do not recall at anytime the media mentioning the guys name.

They just used terms like "a man with a white headband with a backpack and shotgun"

If the guy Was so well known to the police and government, why did they never mention his name until after he was killed?

They had some pretty good obs on him and would have recognised him?



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nissan patrol GQ
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its about cutting off the individuals ability to exploit the situation by bringing in the media

eg he was trying to get the hostages to post his demands and claims on social media after he realised that his demands to TV stations failed

that's why relatives of some of the hostages asked people not to repost from their social media pages
 

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You could clearly see that he was of middle eastern appearance and the black flag have other bits away.

Why would they withhold his name? Was there a ' o shït' moment when the phone call from the day before was remembered?

Also, why did they wait until later that afternoon (after the gunman was killed) to raid his house and that of the other crazy lady? It was hours later..

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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You could clearly see that he was of middle eastern appearance and the black flag have other bits away.

Why would they withhold his name? Was there a ' o shït' moment when the phone call from the day before was remembered?

Also, why did they wait until later that afternoon (after the gunman was killed) to raid his house and that of the other crazy lady? It was hours later..

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Why would there be an Oh S*** moment, these guy's are professionals at what they do and I have great respect for what they achieved under difficult circumstances.

The question about name has been answered by gf0012-aus isolates him and reduces any credibility he may have with followers. After his demands weren't met was when he forced people to go on fakebook to get his message out and then relatives of those people asked that these vids not be shared, isolation is the name of the game.

As said earlier people will always find fault with how things are handled in retrospect, hindsight is a wonderful thing, I still think they did the best possible job they could, some guy ringing up and saying have a look at this website has no bearing on the event, they did know already but could do nothing as no laws had been broken.

Damn, if someone ringing up saying have a look at this website is supposed to bring action then some of the things posted on this forum over the years would have raised eyebrows :).
 

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Why would there be an Oh S*** moment, these guy's are professionals at what they do and I have great respect for what they achieved under difficult circumstances.
As I asked, did the successful supression of his name across ALL news and media outlets have anything to do with a realisation that they might have been warned about this days before?

It is very unusual in these days where we are connected 24/7 to not have the name leak out anywhere?

As for supressing his name in order to prevent his followers doing a similar act - I think they would have known about it before he did it (including the person who sold him the gun)
Besides..he was uploading to the internet from his tablet.. And he has a phone.. That doesn't add up.



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