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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since having the patrol I have always favoured mods and gear that are low weight. In fact, I never had the patrol weighed as I didn't think it really mattered for my setup.

I just dropped something off at the local tip and was shocked at the weight. I'm going to a proper weighbridge tomorrow to confirm. I weighed in at 2.92t with full tanks of diesel.
That's just 140kg shy of the 3060kg GVM for my 09 manual ST wagon.

Ok 140kg of payload remaining isn't too bad right?
Nope, it's bad, because I have hardly any of my essential touring gear on board.
  • Water tank is empty
  • Fridge is empty
  • The roof is empty (don't even have roof racks on)
  • No tent or sleeping gear
  • Most of my camping/cooking gear isn't on board
  • No max trax
  • No spare parts
  • The misso isn't even on board!
Ok so maybe I just need to ditch some crap, unload and simplify my setup etc?
Maybe.... but what kills me is that I'm already running a lightweight setup and gear. We love our camping setup to be simple and we aren't precious campers at all. The fanciest thing we had was a roof top tent which we sold yesterday (another story)
Here's some of the choices I've made to keep weight down
  • Timber drawers with integrated slide (Drifta, no drop slides, no runners)
  • Hoopless tube bullbar
  • No scrub rails, rear bar or even sliders
  • No winch
  • Kaon "luggage" barrier instead of a real cargo barrier (4kg instead of 20kg)
  • No stove at all (I depend on fire cooking or a little jetboil only)
  • No cast iron camp ovens or pans
  • Plastic water tank (5kg)
  • Small table and hiking chairs
Jeeeeez I thought I was doing alright for weight! I guess not.

If I add my "essentials" I'll really be pushing it weight wise. Certainly couldn't entertain the idea of a roof top tent anymore. In fact, even a double swag is going to push it. Can't bring the dog camping that's for sure. Can't carry 40L of water for big trips. Beers are out, whiskey in a plastic bottle is in. The winch, solar panel and sound deadening gear sitting in my garage may have to find a new home!

Sorry for the whinge I'm just a bit devo. I can't go spending another $5k on a GVM upgrade when I just replaced my suspension 6 months ago

Anyway thought I'd share with you lot. Even if you are buying lightweight gear and mods, you should check your weights!
 

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Since having the patrol I have always favoured mods and gear that are low weight. In fact, I never had the patrol weighed as I didn't think it really mattered for my setup.

I just dropped something off at the local tip and was shocked at the weight. I'm going to a proper weighbridge tomorrow to confirm. I weighed in at 2.92t with full tanks of diesel.
That's just 140kg shy of the 3060kg GVM for my 09 manual ST wagon.

Ok 140kg of payload remaining isn't too bad right?
Nope, it's bad, because I have hardly any of my essential touring gear on board.
  • Water tank is empty
  • Fridge is empty
  • The roof is empty (don't even have roof racks on)
  • No tent or sleeping gear
  • Most of my camping/cooking gear isn't on board
  • No max trax
  • No spare parts
  • The misso isn't even on board!
Ok so maybe I just need to ditch some crap, unload and simplify my setup etc?
Maybe.... but what kills me is that I'm already running a lightweight setup and gear. We love our camping setup to be simple and we aren't precious campers at all. The fanciest thing we had was a roof top tent which we sold yesterday (another story)
Here's some of the choices I've made to keep weight down
  • Timber drawers with integrated slide (Drifta, no drop slides, no runners)
  • Hoopless tube bullbar
  • No scrub rails, rear bar or even sliders
  • No winch
  • Kaon "luggage" barrier instead of a real cargo barrier (4kg instead of 20kg)
  • No stove at all (I depend on fire cooking or a little jetboil only)
  • No cast iron camp ovens or pans
  • Plastic water tank (5kg)
  • Small table and hiking chairs
Jeeeeez I thought I was doing alright for weight! I guess not.

If I add my "essentials" I'll really be pushing it weight wise. Certainly couldn't entertain the idea of a roof top tent anymore. In fact, even a double swag is going to push it. Can't bring the dog camping that's for sure. Can't carry 40L of water for big trips. Beers are out, whiskey in a plastic bottle is in. The winch, solar panel and sound deadening gear sitting in my garage may have to find a new home!

Sorry for the whinge I'm just a bit devo. I can't go spending another $5k on a GVM upgrade when I just replaced my suspension 6 months ago

Anyway thought I'd share with you lot. Even if you are buying lightweight gear and mods, you should check your weights!
Yep, GVM is a real problem for y61 wagons. Does anyone know of insurance companies declining a claim due to exceeding GVM? Not talking about being “way” over but by say a couple hundred kg’s which is pretty easy to do.. Rob
 

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2016 Y61 Nissan Patrol 3.0L TD30 wagon
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Hey Jackbyo,

Had a similar experience lately when we took the big girl to Shark Bay.

Loaded her up with swag and Max trax on the roof, full fridge in the rear with all the camping gear.

Filled both tanks and loaded us all in and thought let's stick her on the scales on the way out for a giggle. And the result was:

530603


That will be the heaviest we will ever be (except when the years and booze starts catching up to me) so not terrible that we're right on our GVM... except that we intend on towing a van behind her in coming years and will have no leeway for the ball weight.

Back to the drawing board...
 

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Damn, sorry to hear it Jack. Part of my GVM upgrade was setting it's new tare weight. I gave the vehicle to Pedders, completely empty, no 3rd row, full tank of fuel, OE alloys and stock tires. She came in at 2640, (not sure if that includes the driver or not, as Pedders did all this). Even with the increase I'm super conscious of weights, and once the roof platform goes on (hopefully this week), I'll be filling the fuel and taking it across the weigh-bridge again, and that will be my official "Empty" weight with regard to building my touring setup. I would suggest doing something similar, completely empty the vehicle and fill you fuel, and hitting a weigh bridge. And work from there.

Some quick maths starting with 2640:
  • adding my fat-ass takes it up to 2740
  • adding clothes, cameras, etc, +40 - 2780
  • water +40 - 2820
  • food +20 - 2840
  • recovery gear - inc 4x maxtrax +25 - 2865
  • roof platform +35 - 2900
  • fridge and slide +40 - 2940
  • dual battery system +25 - 2965
  • winch +40 - 3005
  • swag +15 - 3020
  • rear bar +60 - 3080
  • sliders +30 - 3110

And I'd be well over the base GVM, without even accounting for a passenger and their stuff, extra fuel, water, food or a second spare. not to mention other accessoriess, cooking gear, spares, drawers/platforms, etc. I'm fully expecting to be rudely shocked when I hit the weight bridge.

These aren't my exact weights, as I don"t have a rear-bar, winch or sliders (yet...?)

For my rear setup I'm still undecided, but I'm leaning towards a simple false floor in the back, and just tie everything down. For touring I'll probably also look at removing the 2nd row and putting a false floor down for further weight savings.


It's such a difficult path to navigate, and I'm not entirely sure what the best way forward for you is.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Damn, sorry to hear it Jack. Part of my GVM upgrade was setting it's new tare weight. I gave the vehicle to Pedders, completely empty, no 3rd row, full tank of fuel, OE alloys and stock tires. She came in at 2640, (not sure if that includes the driver or not, as Pedders did all this). Even with the increase I'm super conscious of weights, and once the roof platform goes on (hopefully this week), I'll be filling the fuel and taking it across the weigh-bridge again, and that will be my official "Empty" weight with regard to building my touring setup. I would suggest doing something similar, completely empty the vehicle and fill you fuel, and hitting a weigh bridge. And work from there.

Some quick maths starting with 2640:
  • adding my fat-ass takes it up to 2740
  • adding clothes, cameras, etc, +40 - 2780
  • water +40 - 2820
  • food +20 - 2840
  • recovery gear - inc 4x maxtrax +25 - 2865
  • roof platform +35 - 2900
  • fridge and slide +40 - 2940
  • dual battery system +25 - 2965
  • winch +40 - 3005
  • swag +15 - 3020
  • rear bar +60 - 3080
  • sliders +30 - 3110

And I'd be well over the base GVM, without even accounting for a passenger and their stuff, extra fuel, water, food or a second spare. not to mention other accessoriess, cooking gear, spares, drawers/platforms, etc. I'm fully expecting to be rudely shocked when I hit the weight bridge.

These aren't my exact weights, as I don"t have a rear-bar, winch or sliders (yet...?)

For my rear setup I'm still undecided, but I'm leaning towards a simple false floor in the back, and just tie everything down. For touring I'll probably also look at removing the 2nd row and putting a false floor down for further weight savings.


It's such a difficult path to navigate, and I'm not entirely sure what the best way forward for you is.
Thanks mate.

I think you've done things the right way. I'm going to talk to an engineer about getting a modest GVM upgrade with my current (nearly new) suspension, but otherwise will just have to adjust.

I'm looking at it as a blessing in disguise. For one thing, it was pure coincidence that I took off the hardshell RTT to sell it the day before getting it weighed. Since taking that ~70kg off the roof, I can really feel the difference in the drive. It also brakes easier, makes less noise on the highway, EGTs are lower. Basically lower weight is better in just about every single way... Which makes me think I could just build a truly lightweight GU wagon
I never have back seat passengers, so I'm considering having a crack at making a drop in floor to replace the middle row seats. I could put the fridge there, then ditch the drawer setup in the back and go back to stackable boxes and/or a light false floor.

For the roof, I'm thinking of just getting plain old roof rails (not a platform/tray). All I want up there is a solar panel, a swag and an awning.

Some great inspiration from Tim Bates (who dropped 300kg from his patrol recently :eek: )

Also the sidetracked patrol has a great middle row false floor, although I don't think he's concerned with weight as he just added some absurdly heavy frontrunner drawers in the rear


EDIT:
If I pull the middle row seats out and build a false floor, I can put my fridge behind the driver's seat. No slide required. Then I could ditch my ~60kg drawer unit in the back and replace it with some simple crates. Like Tim Bates has done in the video above, although I would much prefer a false floor rather than stacked.
This bloke over on the other forum showed a pretty nifty false floor he made from an aluminium bunnings fence. $100 and 5-7kg with a plywood base

530646
 

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It sounds like you're on the right path. I saw the Tim Bates vid a while back and it's put a pause in and made me re-think my plans. I'm not a huge fan of Tim's presenting style, but he's got some good points and his setup is so simple that it almost seems stupid. I don't think I'll reduce my setup that far, but I'll definitely be using a lot of his principles as I continue to design my touring setup.

When I first saw that sidetracked vid, all I could think about was his GVM, and how far over it he was going. It's a great looking setup , but holy-heck, it much weigh a ton.

Kind of off topic, but in the same vain, there's some prominent 4WD personalities out there that seem to be actively dismissing the legalities of modified 4WD's. The last thing we need is for the states to get their heads together a run another operation like QLD did at the end of 2018 where the cops were pulling over every 4WD they saw and putting them through the wringer. It just makes me nervous, and I'm very conscious of it all.


I'm keen to see where your vehicle goes from here, but why'd you sell the RTT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Kind of off topic, but in the same vain, there's some prominent 4WD personalities out there that seem to be actively dismissing the legalities of modified 4WD's.
Ronny Dahl has surprised me lately in this regard. His hilux build has been all about staying simple, lightweight and even legal. Almost the exact opposite of what his 79 was.
I've always thought of him as a bit of a boofhead mascot, but recently he's been promoting respectful camping and now sensible builds. He's had some videos lately where he's gone camping in stock vehicles with very basic camp gear and no 12v.
We need more of that as opposed to this idea of mortgaging your house and selling a kidney just to go spend a night by a river.

why'd you sell the RTT?
I had the Drifta 1.4 and was going to replace it with a Motop 135.
The Drifta had a few issues that the Motop solved (for me), but as it turns out I won't be running either anymore due to weight.
It was just a coincidence that the day I sold the Drifta I also happened to get on the scale at the tip. Next thing I did was get a refund for the Motop deposit I put down.
Which reminds me, if anyone is after a brand new Motop 135 v3 in Sydney with a $500 discount, hit up MW Toolbox in St Peters. They're clearing their last v3 before the v4 arrives.
 

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Ronny Dahl has surprised me lately in this regard. His hilux build has been all about staying simple, lightweight and even legal. Almost the exact opposite of what his 79 was.
I've always thought of him as a bit of a boofhead mascot, but recently he's been promoting respectful camping and now sensible builds. He's had some videos lately where he's gone camping in stock vehicles with very basic camp gear and no 12v.
We need more of that as opposed to this idea of mortgaging your house and selling a kidney just to go spend a night by a river.
Ronny is exactly who i was thinking of, and he get about 80% of the way there. The Hilux is still, technically, not roadworthy because of some of his modifications. (mostly because of the number of forward facing lights.) The hilux build is starting to go the way of the cruiser - he's dropped a lot of coin into the hilux build, which is defeating a bit of the purpose of building a rig "for the people" to showcase what stock and lightly modified vehicles can do. I'd guess that he's put more than 30k of mods and accessories into the vehicle so far.

That being said, i do like that he's conscious of the weights of everything he adds to the vehicle, and I'd like to see how it stacks up against the GVM. I would've also liked him to build out a wagon, just to be different.

I had the Drifta 1.4 and was going to replace it with a Motop 135.
The Drifta had a few issues that the Motop solved (for me), but as it turns out I won't be running either anymore due to weight.
It was just a coincidence that the day I sold the Drifta I also happened to get on the scale at the tip. Next thing I did was get a refund for the Motop deposit I put down.
Which reminds me, if anyone is after a brand new Motop 135 v3 in Sydney with a $500 discount, hit up MW Toolbox in St Peters. They're clearing their last v3 before the v4 arrives.
I've been thinking about trying to design and build my own RTT, with a focus on weight and footprint/profile. My biggest bugbear with all the RTT's out there is that they have a huge footprint on the roof, and present a pretty terrible profile to the wind. and weigh too much. I've got a few ideas rattling around in my brain, but nothing that I'd commit to building (yet?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ronny is exactly who i was thinking of, and he get about 80% of the way there. The Hilux is still, technically, not roadworthy because of some of his modifications. (mostly because of the number of forward facing lights.) The hilux build is starting to go the way of the cruiser - he's dropped a lot of coin into the hilux build, which is defeating a bit of the purpose of building a rig "for the people" to showcase what stock and lightly modified vehicles can do. I'd guess that he's put more than 30k of mods and accessories into the vehicle so far.

That being said, i do like that he's conscious of the weights of everything he adds to the vehicle, and I'd like to see how it stacks up against the GVM. I would've also liked him to build out a wagon, just to be different.



I've been thinking about trying to design and build my own RTT, with a focus on weight and footprint/profile. My biggest bugbear with all the RTT's out there is that they have a huge footprint on the roof, and present a pretty terrible profile to the wind. and weigh too much. I've got a few ideas rattling around in my brain, but nothing that I'd commit to building (yet?)
check out “ultra fab” on Instagram or Facebook. They are making very good looking hard shell tents in Mildura. Weighs about the same as the drifta which I think is as light as it’s going to get, but with a lower height profile. They are making them to order so you specify the dimensions you want. Expensive though but made in Aus. It also solves the drifta RTT problems I had. I would consider it if I had the payload


530664
 

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I have never fully understood the obsession with RTT's. Maybe i am missing something as I have never run them, but what do they really do that a normal tent cant do? Takes 10mins to set up a tent and you have a lot less weight, free roof and more coin in your pocket.

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I have never fully understood the obsession with RTT's. Maybe i am missing something as I have never run them, but what do they really do that a normal tent cant do? Takes 10mins to set up a tent and you have a lot less weight, free roof and more coin in your pocket.

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A room with a view.

But in actual use they are much faster easier than a tent, particularly the gas strut pop up hard shell type are quick, really quick like 30 seconds to set up and five min max to fold down, tuck in and go. Other big advantage for long distance touring is it stays clean and dry, up off the ground for wet boggy or sharp rocky, sticky camp sites.
 

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100% with you @geordie4x4 on the avoiding wet/sandy/muddy tent bases on pack down of the campsite.
Freestanding pop up tents can almost be as fast to setup, but you still need to find, unload/unroll mattresses, sleeping bags and then repack etc - which a RTT (or slide on camper) avoids.
So many mornings with a dust pan brush sweeping water, sand, leaves, dirt etc off the base of a freestanding tent on camp pack down - to avoid getting crap on everything else (including the tent roof/fly)!
Also the pain of sometimes having to unpack tent and/or groundsheets on return home to hang out to dry properly from rain the night before.
Also as we get older getting down/up of the ground in a freestanding tent gets harder and less comfortable (old bones!).
Plus as geordie says - nice views are a bonus.

I dont have RTT, but a slide on camper - equivalent in terms of speed and ease of being ready to sleep and pack down.
For us when touring we are mostly 1 to 3 nights in a spot - so speed and ease of setup/packup is important - especially for those overnighters.
After years of freestanding tents (regular peg out type and pop up versions) - all that is behind us, the RTT/slide on camper ready made bed is so far out in front.
@Vet 180 you may be ahead on coin in pocket and weight on vehicle etc - but we each make our choices.
Given the choice I certainly wouldnt go back to a freestanding tent .
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I liked having my mattress and bedding all contained in the one unit. Space in a wagon is at a premium. I found with the oztent on the roof I ended up chewing up so much internal cabin space on a mattress and bedding.
There's also the "tree-fort" factor. It's just fun having the RTT. Plus the reasons mentioned above are very valid.

Right now I am working out what is a "must have", and what's a "nice to have" in terms of weight.
The heavy "must haves" that I haven't got yet are sliders, winch and sound deadening.
The RTT is a "nice to have". I may revisit one later if I have enough payload. Having said that, there's been a noticeable increase in fuel economy and driving characteristics with nothing on the roof. I like it.

530708


This platform came with my used Drifta drawer unit to suit a prado, but it seems a good fit.
The current plan (when I have time), is to remove the middle row seats and fix this platform just above the water tank. The fridge can sit there with no slide required.
Then I can ditch the rear drawer unit and go back to a very simple false floor + crates.
As a rough estimate, that should save me about 100kg of payload.
I may also ditch the AGM battery and tray under bonnet for a lithium in the back. There's another 20kg saved

With those things done, I should be under GVM loaded up with very little on the roof.
 

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@jackbyo, when you weighed your Patrol, did you check individual axle loads? Like most, I also have a steel bullbar, winch and aux battery under the bonnet and I sometimes wonder what the "real" net benefit of removing these would be? Not much point in taking the winch off if you need to remove weight to fit a set of drawers, for instance.

I have no idea where I'm at with weight at the moment and need to get mine across a weigh bridge as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@jackbyo, when you weighed your Patrol, did you check individual axle loads? Like most, I also have a steel bullbar, winch and aux battery under the bonnet and I sometimes wonder what the "real" net benefit of removing these would be? Not much point in taking the winch off if you need to remove weight to fit a set of drawers, for instance.

I have no idea where I'm at with weight at the moment and need to get mine across a weigh bridge as well.
No I didn't check axle loads. I actually didn't end up going to a proper weighbridge, just the one at the tip.
Axle loads (and even individual corner loads) would be good to know. If I remove my drawers and middle seats, i suspect I'm going to end up quite front heavy with a steel bar, winch and aux battery up front. FMIC also adds weight fore of the front axle.

I see what you're saying though. I'll leave the battery thing til the end, and perhaps consider keeping the AGM but moving it to the rear
 
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