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Discussion Starter #21
Next up was to bolt the flexplate to the torque converter. This is where the two piece backing plate comes in, allowing you access to those bolts. The big problem with the access at the bottom is that you need to take the sump off to allow enough room.


I happened to get almost perfect alignment without turning the engine.




The 4 bolts are started, then progressively torqued down


2nd half back on. Gap was filled with a strip of aluminium and Sikaflex



I replaced the gearbox mounts with new genuine ones. Later on i found that they made the trans and transfer case sit up about 5mm higher, requiring the cruise control magnet pickup to be moved. You couln't tell this when the old and new mounts sat next to each other on the bench. 26years and many heating and cooling cycles no doubt has some effect on rubber.

Back of the trans, ready for the transfer case to go back on.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
GQ transfer case shifter linkages and shift gates.

To get the transfer case linkage to work on the automatic, I needed 2 things;
1) A linkage pivot point from an Automatic (Otherwise the linkage is the same manual to auto)
2) A Transfer case shift gate from a series 2 GQ auto, since my auto was from a GU and had the same rear adaptor length as series 2 GQ.

Here are 3 shift gates. Top left GQ series 1 Auto. Top right Series 2 auto. Bottom manual

On top of each other

The distance between the bolt holes on a series 1 is about 100mm. Series 2 is about 85mm.

I wasted a bit of time with being sent the wrong parts (asked for a series 2 shift gate and was sent a series 1 which I knew wouldn't work), so I thought I would share the differences since I have all the versions.

Here is a temp sensor going into the transmission oil line between the trans and cooler. So it measures the hottest temperatures that the oil gets which comes out of the torque converter
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Once up and running I had a minor oil weep from between the transfer case and auto trans. The oil was red so it was trans oil.


I pulled the transfer case and found that the rear seal of the transmission was being chewed out by the rough and rusty part of the Transfer case input shaft.
The reason that it was now an issue with the auto, but had not been a problem with the manual is that the manual had the rear gearbox seal pushed right in. The Auto had the rear seal sitting out more and flush with the end of the case and in practice ended up trying to seal on a rusty bit of shaft that had been exposed for 26 years


So I put a new seal in the back of the auto and tapped it right in to sit as far back as it could, more like it had been on the manual gearbox


Its only back a few mm but it fixed the minor weep problem.


This is the offending input shaft from the transfer case. Labeled on there is where the lip of the seals would sit, exaggerated but you get the idea.

Sorry but I'm over trying to get that image to rotate... it just won't
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Although I use the manual lockup less, I now have a tendency to drop it out of O/D for longish hills/rises so it locks itself in 3rd anyway.

I'm pretty confident the Nomad valve body, with increased overall line pressure, is easily compensating for any supposed inefficiency of the factory TCU. They were designed for towing with a stock trans/TC and TCU.
I also haven't found any disadvantage in using the factory TB45E TC with its normal stall speed. It just pulls like a train off the line, snaps into 2nd, sometimes even a little harshly but you know your clutches had no time to slip, and just keeps pulling..

I'm probably running somewhere around 100kw with the little Mamba turbo but it's an extremely nice véhicule to drive with the auto trans..

Sticking with as many of the stock TB45E components as possible is what made this conversion so cost effective after all.

I still have the beefed up trans I rebuilt with extra frictions to put in but I'll keep it as a spare while this one is running so well.
Yes it can be done quite cheaply if you have lower power levels so you can use stock 2nd hand components. So much is interchangable between the auto Patrols over the years. I kind of wish I kept the power level lower like yours and I would have had a lot less headaches over the last 3 years!

The suppliers I spoke to all have varying opinions of what components need to be improved as you increase power. Everyone agrees about additional coolers and valve body mods, even for standard vehicles. At what power/torque point a lower stall TC, fully rebuilt internals, additional frictions, programmable aftermarket TCU or manual valvebody are required seems to be debatable.

Its great fun to hammer the throttle down and feel the constant torque as the auto goes through the gears uninterupted, but it might not be the best for longevity.
One thing that Ive been thinking about to increase longevity of the auto under high power is to try and drop power for the instant around gear changes in a similar same way most TCU's tell petrol engines to retard timing during a shift to drop power. Mechanical diesels have less options to reduce power than petrols or modern ECU deisels.

It seems possible to do on a programmable TCU as some (my Microsquirt) have an output during a shift to retard timing on a petrol. Maybe even the factory nissan TCU from a petrol could be made to do it. This output could be used to activate a solenoid that is mounted on a "T" piece in the boost compensator pressure reference line coming from the air intake. The normally closed solenoid gets the signal during a gear shift to open, and boost is bled out to the atmosphere so the fueling drops due to the compensator having a lower (or no) boost pressue signal.
Not sure how practical this is, but I might look into it one day.
 

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Good informative documentation!

With a good valve body, the shift would be made before the boost/fuel could react and then re-establish itself after the change.

I'm confident I could go higher power with the Nomad valve body. Wholesale Autos rate them to a surprisingly high power level.
There was someone on the forum here with an LS1 in front of a standard RE4R03A and it was holding up apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Good informative documentation!

With a good valve body, the shift would be made before the boost/fuel could react and then re-establish itself after the change.

I'm confident I could go higher power with the Nomad valve body. Wholesale Autos rate them to a surprisingly high power level.
There was someone on the forum here with an LS1 in front of a standard RE4R03A and it was holding up apparently.
Thanks

You are probably right about shift times being too quick to bother with a mechanical boost/fueling reduction system. The fact that no one else seems to bother with anything like this is another hint that it isn't needed. High power autos in the US diesel scene seem to focus on fast shifts with the TCU/valve body keeping line pressure up (ie. harsher shift) to minimise clutch slippage. That is the same as what I have already.

I'm sure you could go more power with yours, but if you do the big lap towing a caravan, you will have piece of mind knowing that you are not near the limit.
 

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Thanks Snatchy for a great thread. Are you able to say roughly how much the kit from KEAS cost? I am considering doing this to my GQ TD42.

Also
Was connecting to the RPM and speed easy enough?

Thanks
 

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I was just re-reading part of your recent post and saw you had to remove the sump to do your TC bolts.
What would be different in the GQ to require that? I've had no issue getting a socket in there between sump and bellhousing to reach those bolts in the GU.
I removed my engine earlier in the year for a water leak and back in no problem unbolting/bolting the TC to flexplate.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks Snatchy for a great thread. Are you able to say roughly how much the kit from KEAS cost? I am considering doing this to my GQ TD42.

Also
Was connecting to the RPM and speed easy enough?

Thanks
Hi Grimmy

Yes wiring is easy enough I think
For rpm follow the two wires from the rpm pickup at the front of the engine. Pick up the yellow and Yellow/black wires wherever you want along their path to the dash. I picked them up on the chassis side of the engine wiring plugs.

Speed for the TCU was 3 wires coming from the VSS pickup that comes on the auto trans. Just connect them the TCU. You still have the speed for your dash as per the manual vehicle - which is on the transfer case and you don't touch.

Ive got a spreadsheet with all the wiring if anyone needs it. What each of the 4 plugs from the trans is and what each wire is, then where it is connected to the TCU. Shiftkits Australia has all that info provided for their TCU. I might post that stuff up later when I get a chance

KEAS got stuff together for what I wanted, which is to handle a ~250hp TD42. So he can tailor things to your needs. As a guide, all my bits and pieces delivered were less than half what Wholesale Auto's Re4 kit is sold for ($12k) but no doubt i spent more time getting some of those things together. WSA kit has everything while KEAS just supplied me the main components. The rest is cheap stuff and came from people wrecking a Patrol.

Depending on how much power you have, how fussy you are and how long you want things to last, there is a variety of cheaper options available choosing the right 2nd hand parts.

Another thing worth mentioning is that you should consider if it is worth converting your TD42 GQ to auto because you could do something similar to JFF45 or mytqik and end up with a GU auto TD42. Buy a cheap TB45 GU auto in good condition and swap your TD42 in. Overall you might end up with something better for your efforts and $.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I was just re-reading part of your recent post and saw you had to remove the sump to do your TC bolts.
What would be different in the GQ to require that? I've had no issue getting a socket in there between sump and bellhousing to reach those bolts in the GU.
I removed my engine earlier in the year for a water leak and back in no problem unbolting/bolting the TC to flexplate.
I think it was so I could use my 1/2 inch torque wrench and it wouldn't fit with the sump there. If I had chosen to use a spanner and guess the torque I think it would have been fine with the sump in place, but I wanted to do it all to spec and only do it once. I do remember reading somewhere that other people had also needed to take the sump off so I wasn't surprised that I needed to. Maybe my torque wrench is excessively bulky? Interesting to hear yours fitted fine with the socket. I'm very keen not to drop the sump if I have to do it again so i will look into it more, so thanks for mentioning it.

As far as differences ... well I don't think the GQ to GU drive train is any different, and mine is a mix anyway. Maybe it's that my T4 Torque converter matched to a HD flex plate both sit slightly closer to the engine than your J6 and factory flexplate. T4 to J6 height difference is 7.9mm (26mm - 18.1mm) due to the enertia ring according to the specs on scottmeister's rebuild guide in the bottom table of post 2;
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-55/re4r03a-transmission-rebuild-guide-111481/
 

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Hi Grimmy

Yes wiring is easy enough I think
For rpm follow the two wires from the rpm pickup at the front of the engine. Pick up the yellow and Yellow/black wires wherever you want along their path to the dash. I picked them up on the chassis side of the engine wiring plugs.

Speed for the TCU was 3 wires coming from the VSS pickup that comes on the auto trans. Just connect them the TCU. You still have the speed for your dash as per the manual vehicle - which is on the transfer case and you don't touch.

Ive got a spreadsheet with all the wiring if anyone needs it. What each of the 4 plugs from the trans is and what each wire is, then where it is connected to the TCU. Shiftkits Australia has all that info provided for their TCU. I might post that stuff up later when I get a chance

KEAS got stuff together for what I wanted, which is to handle a ~250hp TD42. So he can tailor things to your needs. As a guide, all my bits and pieces delivered were less than half what Wholesale Auto's Re4 kit is sold for ($12k) but no doubt i spent more time getting some of those things together. WSA kit has everything while KEAS just supplied me the main components. The rest is cheap stuff and came from people wrecking a Patrol.

Depending on how much power you have, how fussy you are and how long you want things to last, there is a variety of cheaper options available choosing the right 2nd hand parts.

Another thing worth mentioning is that you should consider if it is worth converting your TD42 GQ to auto because you could do something similar to JFF45 or mytqik and end up with a GU auto TD42. Buy a cheap TB45 GU auto in good condition and swap your TD42 in. Overall you might end up with something better for your efforts and $.
Thanks Snatchy
Yes the TB45 might be the go.. just needs the engine mounts re-welded I believe?
 

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Snatchy, hope you don't mind another question ;-). Can you recommend what TPS to use?

Thanks
Grimmy
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Snatchy, hope you don't mind another question ;-). Can you recommend what TPS to use?

Thanks
Grimmy
No worries. There are a few options;

1) You can try and get a factory style TPS mounted to your pump like I did, but it might cost a bit. 04 to 06 GU TD42 Patrols have them fitted from factory so you could try and find parts from one of those

2) If I did it again and my pump was not already removed I would look into a remote mount TPS kit from PCS or TCI.
Ive never seen one mounted for a patrol but I'm sure it could be made to work.

Remote Mount TPS Adapter Kit - TCM6000
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/tci-377400/overview/

You will no doubt need to muck around with brackets etc. but at $250 or less (direct from US?) for a new part it sounds OK.

3) Use a GU ZD30 accelerator pedal which has a TPS on the throttle assembly. I'm not sure if they would bolt into a GQ though? You will have to modify it to accept the cable.

4) Find a TPS and mount from another diesel vehicle that uses the same style injector pump. Nissan terrano and others apparently

5) get a universal TPS and make a bracket to fit onto the pump

So it depends on how handy you are and what you want to try
 

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The 04 to 06 TD42Ti TPS only have 3 wires for the throttle position so you'd need to add some kind of micro switch setup for the idle/throttle open signals that the RE4R03A requires.
Same for the PCS offerings, they only have 3 wires.

The Safari TD42T autos have the 6 wire TPS.

One disadvantage of using a remote, i.e. not directly attached to the IP, TPS is if you also have cruise control.
When I use my cruise control, I have no TPS feedback because the cruise control cable pulls directly on the IP while my pedal mounted TPS stays in the idle position.
This means you get no TPS feedback for kickdown when it's normally needed.

The 6 wire TD42T TPS for the IP is certainly not sensibly priced..
 

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Thanks for all your info gents.

I have a TD42Ti motor (2006) going into my 2005 ZD30-based GU with an auto.
The info on pages and threads like this are invaluable.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
The 04 to 06 TD42Ti TPS only have 3 wires for the throttle position so you'd need to add some kind of micro switch setup for the idle/throttle open signals that the RE4R03A requires.
Same for the PCS offerings, they only have 3 wires.

The Safari TD42T autos have the 6 wire TPS.

One disadvantage of using a remote, i.e. not directly attached to the IP, TPS is if you also have cruise control.
When I use my cruise control, I have no TPS feedback because the cruise control cable pulls directly on the IP while my pedal mounted TPS stays in the idle position.
This means you get no TPS feedback for kickdown when it's normally needed.

The 6 wire TD42T TPS for the IP is certainly not sensibly priced..
Hi John

I think your factory TCU needs the full 6 wire TPS feed while for example my Microsquirt aftermarket TCU only needs a 3 wire TPS. So for me only the variable 0-5v signal is required while the idle/ open throttle part is not needed. I happen to have the full 6 wire TPS but don't use 3 of the wires

So Grimmy your choices for appropriate TPS can vary depending on what TCU you choose.

What you mention about the TPS and cruise control is interesting. I have an aftermarket cruise fitted to the bare bit of throttle cable just after the Injector pump.
I was told to make sure whatever TPS I setup also moves when I have the cruise control fitted so the TCU knows when the cruise control is moving the throttle and hence line pressure ramps up to clamp the clutches appropriately. Therefore the TCU functions the same under cruise control or foot actuation and adjusts gear, lockup and line pressure etc. as per normal.

When I read what you wrote above (unless I have missunderstood), I get the impression that yours is set up the opposite because you have your TPS on the pedal and therefore the TCU doesn't get told how far the throttle has been opened. You don't think that is a problem somehow? Do you prefer it not to change gears or lockup when you engage cruise?
 
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