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Discussion Starter #241 (Edited)
Thanks, yes I'm interested in experimenting with water meth injection, the cost of setting it up is a bit much for me just now though. I'll be reading through your thread soon and that might change my mind.
Ok Dylan, I read through your thread from beginning to end and then from the end back just to get an idea how it all worked out. Must say W/M has potential, a nozzle would fit right in the cast alloy crossover duct which is already there.
The cheapest system I see is here: Edit: It has a simple 30psi switch rather than a controller, so back to the website and check for a better system.

What's the legality of W/M in a diesel GQ?
I mean, if the GQ gets looked at by the cops with an old turbo and FMIC, probably no big issues. But do they see W/M and just write you out a defect on the spot?
 

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SUI GENERIS UTE
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There is laws or codes about fuels and their auto ignition point etc like straight methanol and nitros etc. Water mixed with methanol has no flash point so considered safe, we use 50/50 water/methanol for safety. There is no code about injecting water only so you are safe from the nosy cop looking for an excuse.
 

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Discussion Starter #243
Thanks Pete, good advice as always.

Looking into W/M, thanks to @Dylan and his detailed thread, there's real opportunity to get something up and running quite easily with the existing Safari turbo set-up.

Here's the existing set up. Temperature sensor occupies the original threaded boss, with two extra ports drilled and tapped for the boost gauge and IP diaphragm.


It would be easy to put a WM nozzle where the thermocouple is now. The TC could be moved to another hole drilled and tapped between the existing boost gauge and IP ports:


The biggest challenge is where to place the tank. The obvious locations for a tank are already crowded with a panel airbox and a Provent:


The tank could be placed inside the cabin, but that takes up space.
It's been suggested that a custom made tank could be placed inside the front mudguard... between the inner and outer guards. That would mean a custom tank and some expense though, so it's probably a longer term proposition.

Finally... Rolan are offering a 20% discount on AEM W/M systems this weekend.
A kit with a progressive controller and a 1 gallon tank would be about $700 after discount:
 

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Could you a bladder of some sort to fit in a panel. Only came across the idea as i need to fit a rear wiper bottle to the back door of my gq and found some landcruisers and even ferrari's have a bladder for the window washer bottles.
 

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Discussion Starter #246
Could you a bladder of some sort to fit in a panel. Only came across the idea as i need to fit a rear wiper bottle to the back door of my gq and found some landcruisers and even ferrari's have a bladder for the window washer bottles.
That could work, provided the bladder material can cope with the methanol. It was one of my earlier thought bubbles, to put a bladder inside the back mudguard on the passenger side. There's a lot of unused space there.
 

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Discussion Starter #247
Your water methanol nozzle should be at the manifold where you are proposing to fit the thermocouple.
Thanks Pete,
It's always good to put up plans on this forum; I get proper advice before I can mess things up.
For the nozzle location, I took Dylan's location mid-duct as a cue.
Obviously I can drill and place the nozzle anywhere along the crossover duct, if it's best right at the junction with the manifold I can certainly put it there.
I do however like to measure things, and it'd be great to have two thermocouples in the duct, before and after the nozzle, just so I can monitor what the w/m system is providing in terms of cooling.

Somewhere in the many pages I also read that the pump and boost gauge ports should be upstream of the nozzle, to prevent water getting into the lines?

Oh, and Snow Performance have a new controller in 52mm round format that includes a boost gauge display.
 

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Discussion Starter #248
You're most welcome mate!
Thanks heaps for that info, i will lookup the temptec setup, definately seems the goods!
Regarding your concern of lag, honestly mate doesnt exist! Purely a myth with our humble diesel!
After 7 TD42 GQ setups over the years and now a GU, going from crossover pipe, to stock top mount to 600x300x76mm front mount withw metres of piping- absolutely no difference in throttle response or so called lag! Even at low speed or intraffic. (I daily mine and do tonnes of kms).

Just focus on fitting the biggest core you can safely fit within your own guidelines (wanting to cut/shave or not), as Oldmav mentioned at worst theyre a big heatsink so let them have some solid surface area.

Aim to keep piping bends to a minimum. If you can weld alloy, use it as it dissipates heat well and keeps weight down. If not, mig stainless. Use mandrel bends everywhere, no silicone elbows. Add just a couple of silicone straight couplers in hot side piping, and also cold side, purely for some flex/ give. Use stainless Tbolt clamps, and weld a bead, or bead roll tge end of all piping to guarantee no hoses ever blowing off.
I can pm you some pics if you like.
Cheers,
James
Speaking of Temptec, I had a look through their products and found this:
A K-type thermocouple display with peak-hold, alarm and dimmer. This is what I'd look for to monitor EGT as well as charge air temperatures.
 

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Discussion Starter #249 (Edited)
So, I'm still looking at W/M systems, won't get any change out of $850 for a system, and where would I put the tank?

My original idea of a fmic that'll fit behind the grille is still being considered, I modelled up a couple of off-the-shelf options and yes they'll fit with the a/c condenser but I'll lose the a/c fan.
But. I'm a bit reluctant to cut big holes in the radiator panel for the air ducts...
524094


Another intercooler option is W2A. I've talked about this in the past. Thinner heat exchanger, small diameter hoses. Less invasive to install but of course more expensive than a fmic.
Has anyone had experience with these ebay coolers? Will probably fit where the turbo crossover duct is now:
524095


AND... Here's a maybe dumb thought: Has anyone ever mounted a W2A heat exchanger under a GQ wagon? There's space between the chassis rails for a long narrow unit. That would save putting a heat exchanger in front of the radiator...
 

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Another option for a W2A IC is to combine it with a raised inlet manifold.
This is what @scottmeister designed and had built for his TB45 to TD42T auto conversion.
From memory it’s a Garrett core.


524096
 

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Discussion Starter #251 (Edited)
Another option for a W2A IC is to combine it with a raised inlet manifold.
This is what @scottmeister designed and had built for his TB45 to TD42T auto conversion.
From memory it’s a Garrett core.


View attachment 524096
Now THAT is commitment. No going back. There's some nice welding on that as well. (To do: Get a TIG and learn)

I was considering that Ebay cooler unit because I can bolt it up to the existing brackets that supported the old Safari air cleaner. A simple 135 degree mandrel bent tube to the turbo outlet , a 90-degree bend to the inlet manifold and there's my W2A cooler. A short path for the charge air. But yes, less than ideal as far as the inlet plenum goes, however initial success would lead to more work along those lines.
 

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AND... Here's a maybe dumb thought: Has anyone ever mounted a W2A heat exchanger under a GQ wagon? There's space between the chassis rails for a long narrow unit. That would save putting a heat exchanger in front of the radiator...
I can't remember seeing heat exchangers mounted under a 4wd, I've seen it done on a couple of street cars though. Not necessarily W2A exhchangers, usually oil coolers or the like.

With no shrouding there would obviously be a high risk of damage to the core, not just from 4wding but from stones and road debris too. That could obviously be reduced with shrouding or a mesh grille to protect the core.
I would also wonder about airflow, I'm no aerodynamics expert but the undercarriage of the Patrol doesn't seem to encourage a smooth flow of air, there will be high and low pressure areas etc, so placement of the core would be critical to maximise air flow to it. Ducting or shrouding could be designed, but that would be quite an exercise I'd imagine.
 
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Discussion Starter #253
I can't remember seeing heat exchangers mounted under a 4wd, I've seen it done on a couple of street cars though. Not necessarily W2A exhchangers, usually oil coolers or the like.

With no shrouding there would obviously be a high risk of damage to the core, not just from 4wding but from stones and road debris too. That could obviously be reduced with shrouding or a mesh grille to protect the core.
I would also wonder about airflow, I'm no aerodynamics expert but the undercarriage of the Patrol doesn't seem to encourage a smooth flow of air, there will be high and low pressure areas etc, so placement of the core would be critical to maximise air flow to it. Ducting or shrouding could be designed, but that would be quite an exercise I'd imagine.
You're right about the possibility of damage. Even though the GQ is a tourer, anything underneath is vulnerable to stones and branches that might get flicked up.
I'm looking at a 50×180×700mm heat exchanger that might fit very nicely behind the grille. This one is apparently from a Subaru BRZ but it looks easy to fit on a GQ.
 

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Rick to honest mate you really should be looking for a 35mm core as big as you can possibly fit up front. something with 8mm or better still 10mm fin tube spacing. Regardless of cooler size the more heat exchanger you have the better. As for over taxing your coolant system i think with a little bit of attention to detail, with your smarts you can fix that. As i have said many times our STD radiator is capable of handling 350+HP its just the pump flow is the issue. You dont have 200rwkw's so attention to detail should address this issue.

A core to look for would be something like a MR2 spider radiator. You will have to change inlet/outlet positions and directions and plug up a few tapping's. 180mm height is just not going to cut it 300mm is what you are looking for.50mm thick is too much and its 2 cores which you dont want.
 

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Discussion Starter #255
Rick to honest mate you really should be looking for a 35mm core as big as you can possibly fit up front. something with 8mm or better still 10mm fin tube spacing. Regardless of cooler size the more heat exchanger you have the better. As for over taxing your coolant system i think with a little bit of attention to detail, with your smarts you can fix that. As i have said many times our STD radiator is capable of handling 350+HP its just the pump flow is the issue. You dont have 200rwkw's so attention to detail should address this issue.

A core to look for would be something like a MR2 spider radiator. You will have to change inlet/outlet positions and directions and plug up a few tapping's. 180mm height is just not going to cut it 300mm is what you are looking for.50mm thick is too much and its 2 cores which you dont want.
Thanks Peter, that advice is a game-changer. Your suggestion of an MR2 radiator gets us on the right track to a real solution that will fit and which will work. I'd been searching around for a car radiator but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Behind the grille of my GQ there's a 310x700x40mm space in which a single core MR2 or similar radiator will fit neatly.
Correct, the inlet/outlets need to be moved, but a radiator shop ought to be able to do that. Oh I wish I had learned to TIG.
 

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TIG skill is not difficult with a few pointers but to tig strong and well with pretty takes probably years.
 

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Discussion Starter #257
This appears to be an MR2 radiator modified to be a W2A heat exchanger... There's a few kicking aroung if I Google 'MR2 Heat Exchanger'

Searching through Ebay stores, there's also a Barina radiator which has a suitable height and width as well as a thin profile. Unfortunately the examples I've seen so far have plastic tanks.
 

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This appears to be an MR2 radiator modified to be a W2A heat exchanger... There's a few kicking aroung if I Google 'MR2 Heat Exchanger'

Searching through Ebay stores, there's also a Barina radiator which has a suitable height and width as well as a thin profile. Unfortunately the examples I've seen so far have plastic tanks.
have used a barina core for a W2A setup on a GQ. welded tanks on. was hard to weld, ended up with a fair few leaks first test.
 

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Discussion Starter #259
have used a barina core for a W2A setup on a GQ. welded tanks on. was hard to weld, ended up with a fair few leaks first test.
That's interesting. Am I correct in assuming you got the rad with the plastic tanks, removed them and welded your own tanks onto the alloy core? That's pretty full-on for effort.
 

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That's interesting. Am I correct in assuming you got the rad with the plastic tanks, removed them and welded your own tanks onto the alloy core? That's pretty full-on for effort.
yeah was a bit of effort.
 
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