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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Sorry about the pics in no paticular order as i uploaded them in bunches of 10 per time (allowed amount) i also find it very hard to figure out which order to upload them anyway from my pc folder as they are so flippin hard to make out they end up small looking in the folder LOL.... so it's less work for me to just bunch them up in a group of 10 per time and just load them up,again it's time consuming and i have to load them from my phone to pc first too!!
Check out the PIC above there that shows the threads for the timing chain guide..... God sake
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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Can anyone tell me in detail what needs to be done with the Scissor gear? I havn't had any time to do anymore on this as work is crazy busy but hope to fit the pump near the weekend.

So would i be better off setting the whole timing up again?
I have a few questions if anyone knows on here or can answer in detail if you do.

1, Should i remove camshafts and start from the bottom with the timing and work my way up?
2, If so explain if you can, i do have the basics and know what way the marks need to be aligned but any extra explainations would help.
3, Can i do any damage by turning crank and pistons with timing chain off and what i mean is can i throw the timing gears off that i can't see??
4, Is there any way of doing this by not having to take out Cams?
5, I was going to just see could i line everything up and let it as is but i don't think that's possible because as of now none of the marks are either present or shown, the engine needs to be rotated to find the marks
6, (Note) I have timing chain off and i didn't lock scissor gear mainly because i couldn't get a bolt to go through anyway once i removed the outside case bolt to access it,i'm guessing the last idiot at it messed up this.
7, What size socket is the crank, i need to turn it with that bolt yeah??

My thinking as of now would be i need to take out cams, and start rotating the crank shaft by hand until the lower marks on the scissor gear show a mark, then i'm thinking from memory reading around this forum that i need to line up 3 holes in the three gears on this scissor gear,is this correct?? Then i line up the injection pump to the main sprocket with a drill bit, and this is fairly clear and easy around the pump area, however i am a little confused, does the engine need to be at TDC for the marks to line up at the scissor gear? Also it it ok to drop in cams then and line everything up above again if i'm at TDC?
If i'm missing anything can someone chime in.

So can anyone answer the above in detail?
Thanks!
Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Well this forum is gone really quite lately, anyone?
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Dan, have you downloaded the Genuine Nissan Workshop Manual from the DI Archives post #9? All the detail is in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Hi Ross,

Thank you, i know i'm been a little impatient here but this job is a little above me right now...taking out the pump was the easy part (And that was a bitch) :LOL:
This would have been easy in the case of a running engine that just stopped due to the pump because one can trust the timing and just take out pump and it's gear. I set out here with the intention of checking all the timing because i simply don't trust it and the scissor gear wasn't locked properly with the last lad that went at this.

It's going to be a pig of a job but i'll look at it as a nice challenge!
To make this job worse the Patrol is outside in my driveway :eek::ROFLMAO: our sheds are full and in any case the tow truck wouldn't have got it to my shed given it's awkward location so it's out in the wild for me doing this one. LOL

Didn't touch it sinse i'm on every forum and place trying to learn about the timing and scissor gear i saw some great you-tube videos but they are all in other languages :(
it's just making sure that i don't make any mistake is what i'm at and i know these IP threads were done a few times on here but this is all new to me timing one back up!!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Well i checked through the archives and to be honest it still don't answer my questions.

If i have timing chain off it is ok to turn the crank shaft to reset the timing>? i presume i can't without removing the cams?
I am unsure about this part i would like to start at the pump and scissor gear and align the marks then work my way up, i presume it's not going to be this easy??

Lucky i am on plenty other forums because it's gone very antisocial in here LOL
 

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Well i checked through the archives and to be honest it still don't answer my questions.

If i have timing chain off it is ok to turn the crank shaft to reset the timing>? i presume i can't without removing the cams?
I am unsure about this part i would like to start at the pump and scissor gear and align the marks then work my way up, i presume it's not going to be this easy??

Lucky i am on plenty other forums because it's gone very antisocial in here LOL
Only turn the crankshaft if the head is already removed. The pistons will hit the valves if you try rotating it without the timing chain attached.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Hi Skeg,

Thanks for the comment as it's gone very quite around here in recent times but i guess the thing is people may not know about this as you know yourself not many of us do our own pumps.
Anyway, can i take out the camshafts? which at this point is the best way to line this all up?

Do i even need to take out cams? Head deffo is not coming off LOL
At the moment all the timing is marked from the last mechanic but i want to line things up properly starting from the scissor gear again if possible, so how can i rotate the crank to line up the timing? What is the easiest and fastest way? Thanks Skeg for the help,if i'm ever in ozz a few beers are owed to you!! ;)🍻
 

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Take cams out and it will be safe to rotate crank. Get the timing Marks (C & CC etc) to line up then it's safe to put the cams and chain back on.

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Discussion Starter #30
Ok at this stage i think i'm going to just trust in the timing as it's all marked after last mechanic and i took plenty of pics... to hell with taking out cams as that's a big job and injectors need to be pulled etc...and i for one would be very slow upsetting the tension of the injectors!
That will be my last resort,My only worry now is that scissor gear. There are marks on that too but god knows what has been done with it and if it's going to go back on as it should....
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Ok had a super day today with the Patrol and learned a hell of a lot... got pump back in, learned a lot about the timing. Went and got myself a 41mm socket and adaptor to accept my 1/2" drive. And so i got rotating the crank to TDC and rotated cams at the same time slowly a little to help it rotate. I got TDC on the crank and lined up all the marks, on the large IP sprocket i got the C in between CC, All marks on cams BB etc etc spot on and AA, the pump i used the screwdriver to guide it on and keep timing all spot on with the chain and was impressed at how easy it actually was.... i put preload on the scissor gear with a large flat screwdriver and was able to lever it to line up all the C's when fitting the large sprocket.... I fitted the injection lines from the pump, bleed the whole system, fitted the primer and got it rock hard....
Left out glow plugs and was ready to turn her to see if the pump was throwing up vapour and 'Bang' i heard a hit... so the timing is still flippin out!!! :(

So how the hell is the timing still out on this one.... very very strange... i rotated it back to TDC by hand again and spotted all the marks spot on...chain didn't jump.... I'm baffled.

I just hope i don't have to remove the whole front engine plate off this thing now.... in the last Mechanics defense it was turning after him But not now....
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Few more pics... in any case i'm happy with the progress and learned a lot. It wouldn't be a big deal to try to set timing again but i honestly don't know why it's not timed right...all the marks line up as i said.
Can anyone tell me how this could be possible??

PS see my vise grips and box wrench set up to turn crank before i went and bought the new socket 😂😂
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
My money is on the Scissor gear.. it must not have been aligned up properly. Even though i put tension on it to line up all the C's i presume it's still off somehow. I couldn't get the bolt all the way through but i can't understand how it's possible the front part of the gear would not take anymore tension from me and it was at TDC and on the scissor gear the C's lined up.....Can anyone chime in here because these threads are a lot of effort and i presume you want to know the end result?? So what am i missing on this scissor gear guys??
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Another very important thing i meant to say was the last Mechanic had a while line on the crank pulley and a while line on the crank sensor....it's my first time doing this so i was confused which was TDC, there is another factory line on the pulley and i presumed that should have been the one,but i asked myself why would he have marked it then so i used the while line to get TDC with the crank sensor....i think it's the last Mechanics fault and i should have went with my gut on this one...can anyone confirm that the factory mark on the pulley is the one that needs to be on top facing the crank shaft sensor??
 

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Another very important thing i meant to say was the last Mechanic had a while line on the crank pulley and a while line on the crank sensor....it's my first time doing this so i was confused which was TDC, there is another factory line on the pulley and i presumed that should have been the one,but i asked myself why would he have marked it then so i used the while line to get TDC with the crank sensor....i think it's the last Mechanics fault and i should have went with my gut on this one...can anyone confirm that the factory mark on the pulley is the one that needs to be on top facing the crank shaft sensor??
Mark on crank pulley to line up with line in pointer. Have you downloaded the Genuine Nissan Workshop Manual yet?

This pic is from my build thread on IP change.
513639
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Ross,
Problem here with the Broadband at the moment normally a download like that would take a few mins but it refused to download several times.

There is a factory mark on the pulley and the opposite end this idiot mechanic who was last at it has white paint and white paint on the sensor,i fell for the trap and lined up the while paint wondering why he would in the first place if it wasn't right...

Anyway,i'm at Patrol now and going to reset the whole timing and go off the factory mark, i will rotate by hand to confirm first this time....
I just hope no valve damage :O
 

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Ross,
Problem here with the Broadband at the moment normally a download like that would take a few mins but it refused to download several times.

There is a factory mark on the pulley and the opposite end this idiot mechanic who was last at it has white paint and white paint on the sensor,i fell for the trap and lined up the while paint wondering why he would in the first place if it wasn't right...

Anyway,i'm at Patrol now and going to reset the whole timing and go off the factory mark, i will rotate by hand to confirm first this time....
I just hope no valve damage :O
Dan,
I don't know what you don't know , so be aware that the TDC marks line up on both 1 and 4 cylinders. Confirm that all valves on number 1 are seated when the marks are aligned.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Ok so i have taken today off work to go at this Patrol. I plan to redo all the timing...Yes i have just confirmed i am right with the factory mark on the pulley. I have just checked my 01 patrol that i have broken.YES i know i should have done all this first but i didn't think i would need to as i knew there were factory marks on the pulley i guess like i say i jumped the gun and got caught out with the paint marks on the pulley after the last lad. Yes stupid mistake i know.

So the story now is yes it's possible this stupid mistake could mean the head may have to come off due to a valve been damaged (best outcome) i don't think a piston would be damaged but anything is possible.For now i plan to redo the timing and cycle the engine a few times by hand and make sure all feels good, try to fire it up (Assuming the pump is good) if not i have to rebuild A pump and refit it ..

I am lucky though because i have two other Patrol heads laying around with perfect valves so i spoke to my local engine builder just now on the phone and if i drop him this head and one of my others with good valves he said worst outcome would be 200euros to swap the good ones over but like i say i'm not going to jump the gun yet and make crazy assumptions.

I plan now to try to start it and if i can see how it runs...and go from there.If i ever get this started i presume a 'Miss' from the engine could confirm valve damage,in that case the head will need to come off and in that scenario i have taken heads off already and it's not so bad and i would like to see the condition anyway of said Head.. again,not going to jump the gun yet,this is hindsight talk.

I hope it's a lesson for others though not to rush it and take your time..i run my own business so my time is limited and yes i sort of rushed this to be honest. Always make sure and take no chances but looking at it now i think the last guy didn't touch the timing...he put lots of marks everywhere and when he put the pump back in he just confirmed the marks! Which ever works as they say!

I guess i just done too much yesterday and got ahead of myself but all is not lost yet...this thing could run perfect and it may not have done any damage at all... the starter speed is not very high and i couldn't see it doing any damage but we never know.



BTW Cheers ED!
 

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Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Ok spent a few hours today and made great progress. Anyway, i made sure of TDC and it's confusing for anybody doing it for the first time as the sensor plate behind the pully needs to be to the Top position at the sensor and yes i was right that i had made a mistake with the last mechanics marks....anyway problem is the pulley had two marks at differnt corners of the sensor plate. The one at TDC means the corner of the plate is directly under the CAS and the mark on the pulley slightly off to the left of that. At the other mark if one made the mistake to use it would mean the corner and mark are both together at the Crank sensor.
Anyway, no problems lining it all up and when you know it's really easy as is putting in the pump to be fair apart from a few fiddly little bolts.
So the next logical step was to test pump so long story short after a long time priming and turning over (Glow plugs out) there is no diesel going up what so ever....i phoned the diesel specialist and he said if the pump was full of diesel it should push plenty of diesel up if the pump was good.I made sure the primer was rock hard with no air....bled the pump a good few times...plenty diesel coming out....i cranked off No 2 injector line @ injector and not a drop!

It was sort of annoying having the rocker off and glowplugs out because you just can't stop the oil flow...and it was going in to NO 1 cylinder and it was been blown up in the air with the compression LOL....i sort of got a fright at first but quickly realised that it can flow down in to that glo plug hole fairly fast the oil given the spot of NO1 Glow plug.
TDC was very easy to confirm with my other patrol i currently have broken down (01 model,wine colour) @TDC No1 and 4 pistons reaches the top of the travel this is where crank timing needs to be set.

The pump timing and setting the scissor gear is really easy when one knows how!

So the next thing i am doing here now is testing this engine.I have decided to remove my new pump from my current driver 2004 Patrol and fit it to this one... end of the day it's going to rule out everything else and i can always put it back in my 04 if i'm not happy with the engine in this at least until i can sort out any issues if any arises...i do have all the parts i need in plenty supply if needs be...i have every possible part now besides a spare working pump :)

One thing worth noting here is the immobilizor light is staying solid on the dash which is odd.... again though this should not effect diesel flow from the pump because a good working pump should flow diesel no matter what. The only time it won't flow diesel is when the pump is bad full stop...the imobilizor is not in the pump it's in the ECU of the Patrol but i need to do some more research on this first because the ECU in the Patrol if the Immobilizor wasn't happy could stop the flow of fuel too. I am not 100percent on this yet so i won't continue fitting my own pump till i figure out NATS first.

This Patrol has been to the Auto eletricians for a long time trying to diagnose and everything showed up as fine the key reader and ECU. It came with two key readers, two sets of keys and two ECU's .... everything belong to the jeep was refitted when they had all the testing done....but it's still showing a solid light on the dash! I do believe that this is not uncommon though, it can happen and lads who have said it on other threads here i read claimed that regardless of them having a solid red light on the dash the patrols still started and run.

Next step taking out my own pump from my 2004 current driver Patrol which was rebuilt fully in May this year (and fitting it to this 2007 Patrol. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
Last of the pics for now..a mix of the old Patrol i'm breaking and the one i'm currently working on.
Next update...will it start with a new pump or will the Immobilizor end up been another problem!

And if it starts i wonder how it will run!!

-Dan
 

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